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Thread: Routine

  1. #1
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    Routine

    hey, so I have been doing BGB for a while and got a bit bored of it and want to start squatting 2x a week, I have a hip problem that was limiting my squatting but trying to push through has really helped now I am finally able to squat fairly deep so I think squatting 2x a week would be beneficial (for getting big/strong and also my hip). so I was thinking of a routine something like

    Monday (push)
    Bench press 5x5
    Dips 5x5
    Incline Dumbell press 3x8

    Tuesday (Pull/squat)
    Squat 5x5
    Widegrip Pullups 3x8
    Rows 3x8

    Wednesday
    Rest

    Thursday (push)
    Overhead Barbell Press 5x5
    Flat Dumbell Press 3x12

    Saturday (pull/squat)
    Deadlift 5x5 (ramp up to max set of 5)
    Squat 5x5


    suggestions?

    I'm going for a mixture of strength and hypertrophy, I also might throw in the odd set of isolation movements depending on how i feel.
    Last edited by XMadmanX; 10-06-2009 at 04:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    That might work just fine...only one way to find out for sure.

    Everybody is different. I am finding out for myself that training four days a week isn't good for me. But, others can get away with it just fine.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    Looks like a solid routine to me. Might want to throw in some ab work at the end of a workout or two
    Squat...Eat...Sleep...Grow...Repeat

  4. #4
    Senior Member Gymjunkie's Avatar
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    Love the fact that it has compounds and is not volume orientated. Looks good
    Lifts:

    Bench Press 60kg 5x5
    Squats 77,5 kg 5x5
    Deads 112,5kg 5x5
    BB Rows 80kg 5x5
    Overhead Pr. 40kg 5x5

    My training journal:
    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=125238

  5. #5
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    If you are going for 5x5 sets across then that would be better for hypertrophy. If you are going for 5x5 ascending that would be better for strength.

    Neither set-ups are optimal, partly due to the fact that hypertrophy and strength are not exactly separate entities. The first set-up results in poor range of intensity. The second results in better range, although the frequency is slightly below par to make up for lacking volume.

    Bill Starr 5x5 is the best option, Starting Strength another good option depending on whether you fancy extra range of intensity or exercise rotation.

    Guess, you can't have both huh?

  6. #6
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairyback40k View Post
    If you are going for 5x5 sets across then that would be better for hypertrophy. If you are going for 5x5 ascending that would be better for strength.

    Neither set-ups are optimal, partly due to the fact that hypertrophy and strength are not exactly separate entities. The first set-up results in poor range of intensity. The second results in better range, although the frequency is slightly below par to make up for lacking volume.

    Bill Starr 5x5 is the best option, Starting Strength another good option depending on whether you fancy extra range of intensity or exercise rotation.

    Guess, you can't have both huh?
    Youve got things confused a bit. 5x5 across is generally for strength, as is cited in "Starting Strength". Ramping sets can be seen in Madcow/starrs but is merely a tool to load weight differently once sets across can no longer sustain progression. The reason SS uses sets across is because that is the simplest way to load whereas Starrs ramps and has back off sets because it is the 3rd leg, as it were, in progression complexity (after Texas Method). It has absolutely nothing to do with hypertrophy. Try not prescribing Starrs 5x5 when you dont quite fully grasp the basics and/or cant ascertain whether that is the right level of complexity for the trainee.

    Also, the set/rep scheme has little to do with hypertrophy. Eating is THE variable when it comes to size, as size is a function of diet. You can get just as big on 5x5across/ ramping as you can 4x8, 3x10 etc... Most of us here will not be able to get to the point where we can see a verifiable difference in size from 2 different rep schemes. Changing rep schemes should be used for plateaus and changing things up rather than the springboard for hypertrophy. So, yes you can have both and many of us here do... but it takes commitment in the kitchen as well as the gym.

    OP: Texas Method is the next step for progression and while you do squat 3x a week 1 of those times is very light and one is very low volume. Otherwise, Id do something similar to what you have, if you like 4 day splits or you could do a variation of SS (just a top of head example)

    Squat, Clean, Accessory

    DL , Push Pull

    Squat, Push, Pull

    and you can load like SS, if you are still making WO to WO gains (novice gains.) Check out the Texas Method Sticky too.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 10-07-2009 at 12:17 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    5x5 across is generally for strength, as is cited in "Starting Strength". Ramping sets can be seen in Madcow/starrs but is merely a tool to load weight differently once sets across can no longer sustain progression. The reason SS uses sets across is because that is the simplest way to load whereas Starrs ramps and has back off sets because it is the 3rd leg, as it were, in progression complexity (after Texas Method). It has absolutely nothing to do with hypertrophy. Try not prescribing Starrs 5x5 when you dont quite fully grasp the basics and/or cant ascertain whether that is the right level of complexity for the trainee.

    Also, the set/rep scheme has little to do with hypertrophy. Eating is THE variable when it comes to size, as size is a function of diet.
    Using heavy weights builds strength. There's nothing particularly clever about that. Ramping sets is generally the same volume as sets across but also cuts into sub max work. Starting strength is an accidental hit; a person becomes an intermediate not necessarily through some need for cleverness or complexity, rather the idea that there's a better program out there that doesn't chip away at you constantly with ridiculously high intensity lifts.

    Volume does have something to do with hypertrophy so yeah, you want high reps and fatigue mismanagement, which means low intensity.

    Anyway, whatever helps you sleep at night. If the op wants to listen to you that's up to him. I don't see anything in the rules that says: ask zenmonkey if you want to offer some advice. That's unfair play mister

  8. #8
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairyback40k View Post
    Using heavy weights builds strength. There's nothing particularly clever about that. Ramping sets is generally the same volume as sets across but also cuts into sub max work. Starting strength is an accidental hit; a person becomes an intermediate not necessarily through some need for cleverness or complexity, rather the idea that there's a better program out there that doesn't chip away at you constantly with ridiculously high intensity lifts.

    Volume does have something to do with hypertrophy so yeah, you want high reps and fatigue mismanagement, which means low intensity.

    Anyway, whatever helps you sleep at night. If the op wants to listen to you that's up to him. I don't see anything in the rules that says: ask zenmonkey if you want to offer some advice. That's unfair play mister
    Well, there is something in the rules that says don't give a response if you are not familiar with the subject.

    Your first claim is way off, SS is specifically used to move through novice gains in the most efficient way possible, nothing accidental about it. It is based off of basic linear WO-WO programming. Texas Method and Madcow(Starrs 5x5) bases their programming off of SS's programming via stepwise approach. All I meant was try and understand what it is you are saying before giving advice. Have you checked out Practical Programming?

    I am not trying to be the truth police, but when someone says SS is a hypertrophy routine and Bill Starr's is the best... well, that makes little sense on various levels.

    And volume has less to do with size than one would initially think, calories in vs calories out plays a much much bigger role. And actually, I dont know how the numbers work out, but the total tonnage moved is probably quite comparable between both routines.

    Simply put, one cannot say SS is a hypertrophy routine while Starrs is not, they go hand in hand... and when it comes to size, it doesnt matter, all that matters is food intake, as size is a function of diet. So, yes, you can have both, and many of us here do. Im not looking to argue, but am only trying to give the best advice I can to the OP which sadly means I have to openly disagree and defend my claims which can be hard because everyone on the net seems to have tender egos and no one likes to hear something other than what they believe(not you specifically), so I am trying to be as straight forward and honest as possible without gratifying my own ego in the process. I apologize if my initial response was offensive, it certainly wasnt meant to be.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 10-08-2009 at 09:48 AM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    Well, there is something in the rules that says don't give a response if you are not familiar with the subject.
    ...
    Your first claim is way off, SS is specifically used to move through novice gains in the most efficient way possible, nothing accidental about it.
    ...
    Simply put, one cannot say SS is a hypertrophy routine while Starrs is not, they go hand in hand...
    Familiarity and truth are two different things. To suggest that SS is the most efficient way to progress at a novice stage? Well, for starters a lot of things work at a novice stage. Chuck in some volume and weight; hey presto you got newb gains! SS does have its strong points- frequency, rotation of lifts, high intensity/sub max work... but who has the balls to really say with certainty what the most efficient way is? I certainly won't.... but anyway, that isn't the issue. What I did or did not say about starting strength has little to do with my first claim, which was simply with regard to ascending vs sets across...

    So if you want to have a chat about what I actually wrote, then that's fine.

    Generally I do agree about the 'calories= bigger you' point, although we have to take into consideration 'the bodybuilder method' which means repetitions and fatigue (getting at the muscle). CNS training; dynamic lifting; maximum and sub maximum lifting do result in size and strength but there are obvious differences between Bodybuilders per se, and strength/power atheletes. If you're already slow and big like a tank, probably best take a powerlifting or Olympic route to improve power. Built like an endurance athelete, well good luck, if you just want to look bigger.. you know, whatever you choose. Life is a rich tapestry.

    BTW, I still maintain that Starrs is a better strength program. It does not have a rotation of lifts like in SS, but it does have a good range of volume without being extreme and it has some sub max work. That's my opinion. Regardless of how true that opinion is, it is harder to argue that 5x5 is a poor choice for anyone. If you can squat correctly and learn power cleans, you certainly have the smarts to choose 5x5.
    Last edited by hairyback40k; 10-08-2009 at 10:50 AM.

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