The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member benno's Avatar
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    Push Pull Leg Routine.

    Due to my hip soreness and hip flexor soreness from squating 3 times per week on bill starr 5x5, im looking to cut back to squating once per week. Well at least till i fix my hip soreness. Thinking something like this: ( Aiming for Size and Strength )

    Push:

    Bench
    Standing Military
    Dips

    Assitance? ( Skullcrushes , Pulldowns )

    Pull:

    Deadlift
    Bent Over Row
    Chin Ups

    Assitance? ( BB Curls, Pullovers )

    Legs:

    Squats
    SLDL
    Seated/Standing Calf Raises

    Assitance? ( Leg presses , Extensions , Good Mornings , Lunges )

    Looking to do those main exercises with 2-3 assistance exercises.

    Could i make something work using this layout? With rep range im looking to do 5x3-5 Reps on main lifts ( Squats,Bench,Military,Deads ) , then with others a higher range between 8-12. Anyone else had experience of a successful push/pull/leg routine?

    Thanks,
    Benno.
    Last edited by benno; 09-30-2009 at 06:26 AM.

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  3. #2
    THE 800 QUEST NickAus's Avatar
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    Looks good, I would go Mon-pull, Wed-push, Fri-legs.
    I did this for a while and it worked pretty well.
    Squat briefs only 625 @ 210
    Bench geared 525 @ 210
    Deadlift geared 650 @ 220

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  4. #3
    Senior Member benno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickAus View Post
    Looks good, I would go Mon-pull, Wed-push, Fri-legs.
    I did this for a while and it worked pretty well.
    Thanks, What sort of rep ranges did you use?

  5. #4
    Senior Member jtteg_x's Avatar
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    Definitely have the push day in the middle of the week. The layout you have looks solid. The assistance work is dependent on goals but you seem to know what you're doing. I used to lift 3 days/week having S/B/D as my main lifts followed by assistance work and it worked out well building a base for my big-3 and hypertrophy training.

    edit: I did 5 sets of 1-3 reps on the big 3 and 3x8-12 on accessory lifts. get creative with the squat, bench and deadlift. bands and board (if you don't have them yet) can spark some progress sooner than you think.
    Last edited by jtteg_x; 09-30-2009 at 02:01 AM.

  6. #5
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    I agree with the others; Mon (pull), Wed (push), and Fri (lower).

    Good looking routine.
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  7. #6
    Senior Member benno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    I agree with the others; Mon (pull), Wed (push), and Fri (lower).

    Good looking routine.
    Thanks guys! Went to the physio tonight - he said my hips are really tight and not very flexible. He wants me to do stretches every night before i goto bed and not to squat for at least another 1-2weeks. He also mentoined that my wide stance splayed would be putting a lot of strain on my hip region. Might start really low and work my way up with a closer stance, so i can keep the load off the hips.

    Offroad - What assistance work would u do in my routine, what rep ranges? Just asking, cause u seem to know your stuff Would i get any benefits doing 20 rep squaters in my lower day? Im still looking to get size and strength in my squats tho.

    Main Movements ( Squats Bench Military Deads ) im thinking 5x 3-5 Reps
    Assistance Movements 2-3 x 8-12 Reps.

    Thanks once again.
    Last edited by benno; 09-30-2009 at 06:24 AM.

  8. #7
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    I'd do the Squats for lowish reps (5's maybe)
    I'd do the SLDL with moderate reps (8's maybe)
    Then I'd do the accessories with higher reps (12's maybe)

    I love 20 reppers for putting on size and conditioning, but I think the low rep stuff is more important. You could throw some 20's in once in a while for a change-up. I like to get the low rep work done, then drop the weight and crank out a 20. It's very tough, but my appetite goes through the roof.

    As far as accessories go, pick a bunch of them that you like or you think will help you. Then do a couple of them until you burn out on them, then pick some differnt ones. Keep it fun.
    Last edited by Off Road; 09-30-2009 at 06:57 AM.
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  9. #8
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    20 reppers are more of a mental challenge than anything. They are not the most efficient way to exercise legs. Having a heavy bar on your back for 2+ minutes can be extremely uncomfortable. You can achieve a similar effect by doing shorter sets having a few seconds rest in between to take the stress off your spine.

    You obviously need some volume more than anything assistance specific. 5x5 ascending sets might not be enough once per week, hence the extra work.

    I don't think a lot of concentrated volume is the most efficient way to gain strength, but it does look like a bodybuilding scheme, which you want.

    For now, a good post injury tactic would be to ease in with light/medium and frequent exercise. Start adding extra bits when you're ready and only do extreme stuff like 20 reppers once you've fully recovered.

  10. #9
    Resolute -JM-'s Avatar
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    Benno,

    On your squat day why not just run a 5/3/1 type deal so that you get a range of volume and intensity.

    In as far as assistance exercises, why not focus on movements that could help with your hip strength rather than just going for SLDLS. Below is just a suggestion..

    Squat (3x5), (3x3), (5,3,1) or just do 5x5
    Wide Stance, Arched Back GMs (3x8-10)
    Step Ups or Lunges (BB or DB) (3x8-10)
    45* Back Extensions (3x8-10)
    This is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one; the being thoroughly worn out before you are thrown on the scrap heap; the being a force of Nature instead of a feverish selfish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy - George Bernard Shaw

  11. #10
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairyback40k View Post
    You can achieve a similar effect by doing shorter sets having a few seconds rest in between to take the stress off your spine.
    I've always wanted to try that. I knew a guy once on the Hardgainer forum that did it. He did a good job of documenting his progress. He did breathing squats with a high percentage of his 1RM. He'd do one rep, rack the bar, take several deep breaths, then crank out another single, and repeat until he got all 20. He put on a bunch of weight with it. I just haven't been crazy enough to try it yet
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  12. #11
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    Off Road, I'm very tempted to try that!

    If I were following prilepins table http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls12.htm, I would manage 20 singles at between 80-85% keeping force production highest throughout. Anything more would probably be asking for burnout.

    Here's another idea: go for a high rep set but don't count. Get someone else to count for you, but not out loud! That way the end is when you don't make it back up. You won't know whether you've done 10 or 30 until the set is over!
    Last edited by hairyback40k; 09-30-2009 at 10:40 AM.

  13. #12
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    I couldn't help not counting

    Dr. Ken used to leave all his squats on the pins, maybe he still does. I remember watching the video of him squatting 400x20 at a low bodyweight, around 170 lbs if I remember correctly. Absolutely inspirational.
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  14. #13
    Senior Member benno's Avatar
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    Ok, thanks alot for the replies. I was thinking about this, confirm or deny, express your opinions

    Pull: ( Monday )

    Sumo-Deadlift 5 Sets of 3-5 Reps
    Bent Over Row 3 Sets of 10-12 Reps
    Chin Ups X sets of 30 Reps ( How ever many sets it takes to reach 30 )

    Assitance

    Pullovers 2 Sets of 10-12 Reps
    BB Curls 3 Sets of 8 Reps

    Push: ( Wednesday )

    Bench 5 Sets of 3-5 Reps
    Standing Military 5 Sets of 3-5 Reps
    Dips 3 Sets of 8 Reps

    Assitance

    Flat D/B Fly'es 2 Sets of 10-12 Reps
    Skullcrushers 2 Sets of 8 Reps
    Pushdowns 1 Sets of 10-15 Reps

    Legs & Lower: ( Friday )

    Squats 3 Sets of 5 Reps
    Wide Stance GMs 3 Sets of 8-10 Reps ( Help Strengthen Hips )
    Leg Extensions 2 Sets of 15-20 Reps
    Hyperextensions 3 Sets of 8-10 Reps ( Help Strengthen Hips )
    Seated/Standing Calf Raises 2 Sets of Each of 12-15 Reps

    How does this look? Ive limited squats to 3 work sets of 5 so its less volume and stress on my hips. Then used flynn's idea with the strengthing hip exercises and droped SLDL? What do you guys think on the overrall? Im not sure if thats enough work for legs and lower? Im sure the push/pull workouts should work out well though.

    Im open for suggestions!

    Thanks benno.

  15. #14
    THE 800 QUEST NickAus's Avatar
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    When I did the pull/push/legs I was working up to my best 3 then doing a set of 10 on the first movement of the day.
    Some days you beat your PR on both the 3 rep set and the 10 rep set, other days just one or the other.
    This was fun and helped both strength and size.
    Squat briefs only 625 @ 210
    Bench geared 525 @ 210
    Deadlift geared 650 @ 220

    Captains of Crush #3

    Building Mighty Mitts...

  16. #15
    THE 800 QUEST NickAus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benno View Post
    Thanks, What sort of rep ranges did you use?
    For assistance I was mainly working up to my best 8-10 then doing a couple of sets with 20kg less for the same 8-10 if that makes sense.
    Squat briefs only 625 @ 210
    Bench geared 525 @ 210
    Deadlift geared 650 @ 220

    Captains of Crush #3

    Building Mighty Mitts...

  17. #16
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    Let me get this straight- you want less stress on your hips, so you're dropping squats, but then doing lots of extra work ON the hips to strengthen them?

    How does that work exactly?

  18. #17
    Senior Member benno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairyback40k View Post
    Let me get this straight- you want less stress on your hips, so you're dropping squats, but then doing lots of extra work ON the hips to strengthen them?

    How does that work exactly?
    I was using Flynn's idea. Obviously my hips get more beat up from squats. GM's and hypers dont put the same strain on my hips like squats do. Bad idea you reckon? Im open for all suggestions..

  19. #18
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    1. rest

    2. choose a program listed on WBB such as SS, Westside or Wendler. Do NOT make up your own program.

    3. start squatting again.

    4. bring your squat stance in.

    5. Add repetition work and choose more exercises IF the program permits.

    6. Eat and get good results.
    Last edited by hairyback40k; 10-01-2009 at 12:30 AM.

  20. #19
    Senior Member benno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairyback40k View Post
    1. rest

    2. choose a program listed on WBB such as SS, Westside or Wendler. Do NOT make up your own program.

    3. start squatting again.

    4. bring your squat stance in.

    5. Add repetition work and choose more exercises IF the program permits.

    6. Eat and get good results.
    I plan on resting till at least next Friday from legs.

    Ive done SS, BGB and bill starr programs from the site. I honestly dont see MUCH difference from this program to bill starrs, SS etc. the only difference being is you do some major compounds twice a week. I can still use the same format or ramping weights suggested in bill starr, welder or texas method. Ive incorporated all the compounds needed and thrown in some assistance work.. Pretty standard really...

    I do not want to be squating no more than once a week at this stage till i feel 100% condifent on my hips and form. Once i feel 100% i will start squating twice a week.

  21. #20
    Resolute -JM-'s Avatar
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    Benno, your hip soreness is due to lack of flexibility right?

    I think your push/pull/legs setup is fine. Your hips are just not used to having squatted with such frequency before. I still say, work on strengthening your hips and do plenty of stretching and foam rolling each day.

    Pick a stance that allows you to squat with the best form and work from there. Start lighter again if you have to and work up. Your hips will adapt!
    This is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one; the being thoroughly worn out before you are thrown on the scrap heap; the being a force of Nature instead of a feverish selfish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy - George Bernard Shaw

  22. #21
    Senior Member benno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flynn View Post
    Benno, your hip soreness is due to lack of flexibility right?

    I think your push/pull/legs setup is fine. Your hips are just not used to having squatted with such frequency before. I still say, work on strengthening your hips and do plenty of stretching and foam rolling each day.

    Pick a stance that allows you to squat with the best form and work from there. Start lighter again if you have to and work up. Your hips will adapt!
    Hi Flynn,

    Thanks for the reply. Yeah mate, hips are sore due to lack of flexibility. I have no strength trouble whats so ever with the squat, i just feel the hips werent ready for a big pounding of 3x a week. On Bill Starr i was squating 160kgs for 5 quite easily..

  23. #22
    THE 800 QUEST NickAus's Avatar
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    I think what you have chosen is good, remember everything within reason will work for a while.
    Stick with it and hit it hard while getting plenty of sleep and food and you will do really well for sure!
    Squat briefs only 625 @ 210
    Bench geared 525 @ 210
    Deadlift geared 650 @ 220

    Captains of Crush #3

    Building Mighty Mitts...

  24. #23
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    So the program you're thinking about doing is temporary while you rest, then you're going to go back to the 5x5 ? ?

    Must be an excellent program if you can put 60kgs of weight on your squat in 8 months!

    Just think, at that rate you'll be squatting 220kgs by next summer.

  25. #24
    Senior Member benno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairyback40k View Post
    So the program you're thinking about doing is temporary while you rest, then you're going to go back to the 5x5 ? ?

    Must be an excellent program if you can put 60kgs of weight on your squat in 8 months!

    Just think, at that rate you'll be squatting 220kgs by next summer.
    ??? Not sure what your on about hey.

  26. #25
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    Ok, this year you started out doing BGB? and your squat was hovering around 100kgs, yeah? You stuck with that for a few months then started Bill Starr5x5. Roll on several months and you're hovering around a 160kg squat. So you've improved a lot over the past few months, correct?

    So, I take it you're going to go back on the Bill Starr program then after you have recovered?

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