Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: GVT question

  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    60

    GVT question

    I'm about ready to change up my routines and was thinking that I would deload this week. Then next week I would do one week of GVT and then I would start my new routine. GVT is 10 reps / 10 sets with one minute of rest between sets?? I assume I would only do one major compound exercise per training session?? This seem like a good plan??

  2. #2
    Risk10k Clifford Gillmore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    5,760
    I did extra work after the 10x10, because I was significantly weaker than I am now... I suggest a FULL month on 10x10, you'll love it!

  3. #3
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Palmyra, PA
    Posts
    5,730
    You need to do it for a month, not 1 week.

  4. #4
    Strongman Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    119
    I have done it as a volume shock for 1-2 weeks, but it is better when applied for at least 4 weeks as the others suggested.

    The protocol is 10 reps, 10 sets, 1 minute rest and you use the same weight for all sets. You generally want to pick something that you can do for 12-15 reps depending on the exercise. It is OK to miss your reps on some of the later sets as long as you are not too far off (at least 6-7 reps is OK). The next week you would want to slightly lower the load though to try to hit at least 8 on all of your sets.

    You can do some accessory work along with GVT but I would not do more than 5 sets and would keep it relatively low intensity. This program is meant to be high volume/high intensity and too much extra work could easily lead to overtraining.

    It is a great program; when I was first starting out I made some of my best size / strength gains with GVT for certain body parts (I was using it only for arm training).
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 220 lbs | Gym PR's -> Front Squat: 510 lbs / Overhead: 375 lbs / Deadlift: 700 lbs

    Supplements: www.AtLargeNutrition.com

  5. #5
    Risk10k Clifford Gillmore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    5,760
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    I have done it as a volume shock for 1-2 weeks, but it is better when applied for at least 4 weeks as the others suggested.

    The protocol is 10 reps, 10 sets, 1 minute rest and you use the same weight for all sets. You generally want to pick something that you can do for 12-15 reps depending on the exercise. It is OK to miss your reps on some of the later sets as long as you are not too far off (at least 6-7 reps is OK). The next week you would want to slightly lower the load though to try to hit at least 8 on all of your sets.

    You can do some accessory work along with GVT but I would not do more than 5 sets and would keep it relatively low intensity. This program is meant to be high volume/high intensity and too much extra work could easily lead to overtraining.

    It is a great program; when I was first starting out I made some of my best size / strength gains with GVT for certain body parts (I was using it only for arm training).
    I think I used around 50% of my 1RM, as per guidelines - that worked out well, I'd try not to do any forced reps here.

  6. #6
    Strongman Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    119
    One thing that I noticed with GVT is that I would fatigue once I reached the 5th set and start missing reps, but then in the later sets 8th-10th I would bounce back and start hitting additional reps on each set. It is an interesting response.

    50% of 1RM is a good guideline for choosing your weight for working sets.
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 220 lbs | Gym PR's -> Front Squat: 510 lbs / Overhead: 375 lbs / Deadlift: 700 lbs

    Supplements: www.AtLargeNutrition.com

  7. #7
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    U.S.A.
    Posts
    13,884
    I'm guessing that the lifter's strength will have a lot to do with the effectiveness of this type of volume training. A newer lifter might be using 80 lbs for the Bench Press while an advanced lifter might be using over 200 lbs. Is the advanced lifter going to get more out of this or is he going to burn out quicker?
    _________
    ______
    ___

    Off Road Journal

    http://www.wannabebig.com/logo/alnlogo_white.gif

    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

  8. #8
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Palmyra, PA
    Posts
    5,730
    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    I'm guessing that the lifter's strength will have a lot to do with the effectiveness of this type of volume training. A newer lifter might be using 80 lbs for the Bench Press while an advanced lifter might be using over 200 lbs. Is the advanced lifter going to get more out of this or is he going to burn out quicker?
    One would just have to plan things out accordingly. I used it in college during winter break for my sophmore and junior years. Probably started week 1 with 60% of max weights and added 5 lbs each week. Worked out ok for 1 month, but I wouldn't have been able to do it much longer. I wanted to do something different before I started training heavier for the upcoming football season and that was the best time to do it. I included bench, squats, and deads in the routine. I didn't write stuff down back then. Wished I would have soe I could go in more detail now. I would do arm stuff too, but I just did 5 sets for those from what I remember. Also what Tom said about missing reps in the late middle sets and then hitting them in the late sets was true.
    Last edited by joey54; 10-12-2009 at 03:43 PM.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    At a slight angle to the universe
    Posts
    1,816
    Tom actually wrote a a good simple post explaining GVT a while back. You could probably search for it.

    That thread should really be stickied, either on its own or within one of the more general stickies. It would be quite useful then if people could be easily directed towards it.

  10. #10
    Senior Member DMedley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    362
    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    Tom actually wrote a a good simple post explaining GVT a while back. You could probably search for it.
    Drummer Is this the post you are referencing?

    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=123593

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    At a slight angle to the universe
    Posts
    1,816
    Yeah that's the one. OK its not strict GVT, but it shows a way of incorporating it into a routine. I've never used volume training but I like the way this 1-month program is written out.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    485
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    One thing that I noticed with GVT is that I would fatigue once I reached the 5th set and start missing reps, but then in the later sets 8th-10th I would bounce back and start hitting additional reps on each set. It is an interesting response.

    50% of 1RM is a good guideline for choosing your weight for working sets.
    For shoulders on gvt, what are the workouts, can you do db military 10x10?

  13. #13
    Risk10k Clifford Gillmore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    5,760
    Quote Originally Posted by Al19067 View Post
    For shoulders on gvt, what are the workouts, can you do db military 10x10?
    I stuck to straight bars for everything, so BB Milli's would be my reccomendation.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    485
    Quote Originally Posted by Risk10k View Post
    I stuck to straight bars for everything, so BB Milli's would be my reccomendation.
    Thanks man, for my next bulk I might try it in the middle of my routine, looks hard

  15. #15
    Strongman Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    119
    Quote Originally Posted by DMedley View Post
    Drummer Is this the post you are referencing?

    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=123593
    Thank you for bringing back that thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    Yeah that's the one. OK its not strict GVT, but it shows a way of incorporating it into a routine. I've never used volume training but I like the way this 1-month program is written out.
    I have found these types of programs to be very effective for building muscle. Most people get the best hypertrophy gains with volume and variation, which is also a shortcoming for a number of common programs like the 5/3/1 (which is more strength-focused).

    Quote Originally Posted by Al19067 View Post
    For shoulders on gvt, what are the workouts, can you do db military 10x10?
    I always prefer dumbells for military press, but when doing GVT I would typically use barbells for all of the movements. I would say that it is personal preference but you are probably better off with the barbell as Risk suggested.
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 220 lbs | Gym PR's -> Front Squat: 510 lbs / Overhead: 375 lbs / Deadlift: 700 lbs

    Supplements: www.AtLargeNutrition.com

  16. #16
    Senior Member DMedley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    362
    Tom could we get your GVT article placed as a sticky? I like going back and forth from strength to hypertrophy and I am sure others do as well. I think it would serve a lot of people well if the article was easy to find.

  17. #17
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    U.S.A.
    Posts
    13,884
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    Most people get the best hypertrophy gains with volume and variation, which is also a shortcoming for a number of common programs like the 5/3/1 (which is more strength-focused).

    But couldn't you do the 5/3/1 accessory work with more volume?
    _________
    ______
    ___

    Off Road Journal

    http://www.wannabebig.com/logo/alnlogo_white.gif

    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

  18. #18
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    60
    Thanks for the input guys, maybe I will try it for a month

  19. #19
    Risk10k Clifford Gillmore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    5,760
    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    But couldn't you do the 5/3/1 accessory work with more volume?
    You could, but your not doing the main compound movement of the session with more volume. The value of the acc. work would be negated, if you get what I'm saying.

  20. #20
    Strongman Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    119
    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    But couldn't you do the 5/3/1 accessory work with more volume?
    The short answer is "no".

    I will dissect the two training methodologies a bit to explain why.

    Let's first take a look at how a bodybuilder trains. A competitive bodybuilder will likely follow a periodized routine or push/pull/legs split where they will perform 3-5 sets on at least 1-2 compound movements per workout. A total workout will consist of 4-6 exercises and at least 10 total sets, with 5-8+ working sets.

    Here are some example workouts using 5/3/1 as our PL template:

    Bodybuilder Chest Workout
    Incline Bench Press / 235 lbs x 8, 245 lbs x 8, 255 lbs x 5, 275 lbs x 5, 205 lbs x 10
    Dumbell Press / 100's x 8, 110's x 6, 95's x 10, 80's x 15
    Hammer Strength Decline / 2 plates per side x 15 x 2 sets
    Cable Crossover / 60 lbs x 12 x 3 sets
    Total Workout: 14 sets, 9 working sets.

    Strength / Powerlifting Pressing Workout
    Barbell Bench Press / 255 lbs x 5, 270 lbs x 5, 285 lbs x 5
    Weighted Dips / 2 sets of 10
    Incline Dumbell Press / 2 sets of 10
    Total Sets: 7 sets, 3 working sets (5 sets direct Chest work)

    It makes sense to utilize lower volume and high intensity if strength is your goal, which is why these routines are popular and effective. There has become some confusion recently between bodybuilding and strength training. Bodybuilding's intensity measure is volume of working sets, and power training's intensity measure is the percentage of your 1RM that you are lifting. High volume work on compound movements will build the most muscle while high intensity will build the most strength.

    Because of the heavy loads in a powerlifting routine it is hard to increase overall volume without risking overtraining or hindering progress (injuries, etc.). It would be foolish for a powerlifter to do more than 5 working sets if their primary goal is strength, just as it would be ineffective for a bodybuilder to only do 3 working sets per session.

    Any type of weight training will build muscle assuming that you train to failure and allow for recovery. This is what has created some of that confusion between programs.

    You may hear someone say that they have adapated the 5/3/1 to bodybuilding, but you will probably never see a high level bodybuilder following a protocol like that. Many people choose to follow a balanced program like Starting Strength that has a mix of high intensity and high volume, which can build both strength and size. The area where that program falls short is specialization, because some muscle groups do not get the same amount of attention that others do.

    This information is not meant to direct you to some kind of crazy workouts in FLEX magazine or anything like that, but it is important to make sure that your program matches with your goals.
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 220 lbs | Gym PR's -> Front Squat: 510 lbs / Overhead: 375 lbs / Deadlift: 700 lbs

    Supplements: www.AtLargeNutrition.com

  21. #21
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    U.S.A.
    Posts
    13,884
    Nice post Tom and very informative. I'll have to mull that over for a bit since I come from the school that says you have to get stronger in order to get bigger...meaning low volume strength routines.
    _________
    ______
    ___

    Off Road Journal

    http://www.wannabebig.com/logo/alnlogo_white.gif

    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

  22. #22
    Strongman Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    119
    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    Nice post Tom and very informative. I'll have to mull that over for a bit since I come from the school that says you have to get stronger in order to get bigger...meaning low volume strength routines.
    You are right that it is difficult to have one without the other. The thing is that each program (strength vs. hypertrophy) will still give you gains in both categories, just at a slower rate than the primary objective.

    For instance if I were to switch over to a full hypertrophy program I could still build strength, but not as much strength as a low volume routine. The same holds true with only focusing on low volume routines as they apply to hypertrophy. One solution that I use is complexes since it allows you to do high intensity work with seemingly low volume (maybe 3-4 sets per workout) but a high number of working sets (hypertrophy). DC training is another methodology that I like, it is almost like "power building". I may actually write my own "Hybrid Muscle" program at some point, it seems like that has become a popular one amongst trainers and writers recently. Clusters are another good principal that can help you to work toward dual-objectives.

    This discussion brings about another very important topic; what is most beneficial for a new trainee? To try to first build strength or to focus on hypertrophy right away?

    Most recent programs lean toward strength building and I tend to agree, although I have yet to see a program that has progression into a hypertrophy phase or perhaps a high volume week worked into the rotation. I think that a lot of guys who are "bulking" could probably build more muscle if they increased the volume and lowered the weights a bit. Some people define bulking as training in the 1-3 rep range and eating like a maniac; which will definitely boost your numbers in the gym and on the scale - but the end result may not be what that individual was looking for.
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 220 lbs | Gym PR's -> Front Squat: 510 lbs / Overhead: 375 lbs / Deadlift: 700 lbs

    Supplements: www.AtLargeNutrition.com

  23. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    485
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    The short answer is "no".

    I will dissect the two training methodologies a bit to explain why.

    Let's first take a look at how a bodybuilder trains. A competitive bodybuilder will likely follow a periodized routine or push/pull/legs split where they will perform 3-5 sets on at least 1-2 compound movements per workout. A total workout will consist of 4-6 exercises and at least 10 total sets, with 5-8+ working sets.

    Here are some example workouts using 5/3/1 as our PL template:

    Bodybuilder Chest Workout
    Incline Bench Press / 235 lbs x 8, 245 lbs x 8, 255 lbs x 5, 275 lbs x 5, 205 lbs x 10
    Dumbell Press / 100's x 8, 110's x 6, 95's x 10, 80's x 15
    Hammer Strength Decline / 2 plates per side x 15 x 2 sets
    Cable Crossover / 60 lbs x 12 x 3 sets
    Total Workout: 14 sets, 9 working sets.

    Strength / Powerlifting Pressing Workout
    Barbell Bench Press / 255 lbs x 5, 270 lbs x 5, 285 lbs x 5
    Weighted Dips / 2 sets of 10
    Incline Dumbell Press / 2 sets of 10
    Total Sets: 7 sets, 3 working sets (5 sets direct Chest work)

    It makes sense to utilize lower volume and high intensity if strength is your goal, which is why these routines are popular and effective. There has become some confusion recently between bodybuilding and strength training. Bodybuilding's intensity measure is volume of working sets, and power training's intensity measure is the percentage of your 1RM that you are lifting. High volume work on compound movements will build the most muscle while high intensity will build the most strength.

    Because of the heavy loads in a powerlifting routine it is hard to increase overall volume without risking overtraining or hindering progress (injuries, etc.). It would be foolish for a powerlifter to do more than 5 working sets if their primary goal is strength, just as it would be ineffective for a bodybuilder to only do 3 working sets per session.

    Any type of weight training will build muscle assuming that you train to failure and allow for recovery. This is what has created some of that confusion between programs.

    You may hear someone say that they have adapated the 5/3/1 to bodybuilding, but you will probably never see a high level bodybuilder following a protocol like that. Many people choose to follow a balanced program like Starting Strength that has a mix of high intensity and high volume, which can build both strength and size. The area where that program falls short is specialization, because some muscle groups do not get the same amount of attention that others do.

    This information is not meant to direct you to some kind of crazy workouts in FLEX magazine or anything like that, but it is important to make sure that your program matches with your goals.


    Great stuff tom

  24. #24
    LuNa
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Tilburg, The Netherlands
    Posts
    3,716
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    I may actually write my own "Hybrid Muscle" program at some point, it seems like that has become a popular one amongst trainers and writers recently.
    I think a lot of people including me would love to see you write that.

  25. #25
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    U.S.A.
    Posts
    13,884
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    This discussion brings about another very important topic; what is most beneficial for a new trainee? To try to first build strength or to focus on hypertrophy right away?
    The way I was taught to deal with this is to start with an abreviated/foundation routine that focusses on strength to build a base, then you'd switch a specialization routine for a short period before returning to the foundation routine to widen the base further. These specialization routines would be an ultra abreviated routine that focussed on a weakness or a hypertrophy routine focussed on volume (like 6x6) or a routine focussing on prehab.
    Last edited by Off Road; 10-13-2009 at 05:13 PM.
    _________
    ______
    ___

    Off Road Journal

    http://www.wannabebig.com/logo/alnlogo_white.gif

    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

Similar Threads

  1. New user, Deadlift question
    By Not Not Brian in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-15-2005, 09:51 PM
  2. Pulled hammy question
    By BMMack in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-08-2005, 10:53 AM
  3. 1 stupid question and 1 good question
    By Asylum in forum Diet and Nutrition
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-23-2004, 05:08 AM
  4. Deloading Question
    By jeru72 in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-09-2004, 04:59 PM
  5. **A moral question -- Think seriously**
    By Avatar in forum General Chat
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 12-06-2001, 08:27 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •