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Thread: too much information

  1. #1
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    too much information

    I swear there is too much information floating around out there and it confuses the cr@p out of the newer lifters. They finally get organized and set out to lifting weights, then they read something else and have to change everything. They try to fine-tune their diets to perfection, contemplate weather lateral raises will be better than overhead presses, and wonder if they are doing the right ammount of reps needed for optimum growth.

    We had a guy here a while ago (won't mention his name) that was driving people crazy with all his questions, starting and restarting routines, and contemplating all the finite details of his programs. He PMed me one day, so I took it upon myself to scold him. Maybe I was alittle hard on the guy, but he took it to heart. I set him up on a simple Hardgainer workout, gave him a simple eating plan, and told him to stop posting questions. Okay, kind of harsh, but it is working.

    That guy sends me PMs with updates now and then, but hasn't posted in a while. He is reading and learning, but he isn't asking a ton of questions. He is sticking to the plan. And you know what? He is making the best gains of his life. Not because of some super-secret routine or eating plan, but because he is sticking to it. His lifts and bodyweight are both going up at a nice steady pace. He is very happy.

    Just something to think about...
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  2. #2
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    That is fantastic to hear!

    I agree about the information overload as well. There is a bunch of dogmatic crap out there and it is difficult to wade through it all.
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  3. #3
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    He is making the best gains of his life. Not because of some super-secret routine or eating plan, but because he is sticking to it. His lifts and bodyweight are both going up at a nice steady pace. He is very happy.

    Just something to think about
    ...
    Just so it sinks in.

  4. #4
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    I swear there is too much information floating around out there and it confuses the cr@p out of the newer lifters. ...

    I wouldn't say there's too much information...there's too much mis-information if anything.

  5. #5
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    there is confusing info.

    high reps low weight vs low reps high weight - for size. That confuses me, but I will worry about that in 6 months..

  6. #6
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    I wouldn't say there's too much information...there's too much mis-information if anything.

    I don't know, a lot of it is good information but it's just not the best for a beginner. Like some people do better with bench press while others do better with bar dips. So, the beginners takes that to mean that they should be doing both in order to cover their bases. In reality, they should pick one, work it hard for a while and see if they get the results they want. Only after giving it a fair try (adding 50 lbs to it) should they make a determination if it's working or not.

    Same goes for how many days to work out. Working out three days a week can be great, but not if your routine has too many exercises or too much intensity. But the beginner hears that three days is better, so they jump into it so they don't miss out on anything. BTW, the lifter I mentioned above is only working out twice a week

    And trust me everyone, I am not a trainer and I have a ton left to learn about too. I didn't tell him anything that everybody doesn't already know or can learn from this forum, I just got him focussed.
    Last edited by Off Road; 10-15-2009 at 07:12 PM.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    For newbies, just getting to the gym and doing a crappy program is infinitely better than getting to the gym and mindlessly wandering from exercise to exercise, or even worse, not making it to the gym at all.

    Consistency trumps everything else long term. Most people don't train long enough to see that pan out however...
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Clover's Avatar
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    There is a lot of info, I'm just glad I stumbled onto this site first instead of bb.com.

  9. #9
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    You want to know how to train?

    Get:

    Westside Barbell Book of Methods
    Starting Strength
    One book by Ellington Darden

    If you read the above you would know pretty much all you will ever need to know about getting big and strong.


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  10. #10
    The Flyfisher rbtrout's Avatar
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    ^^^ This.

    The problem is that many newbies will start reading all the mags and if you eat like Jay Cutler and workout like him, you'll look like him.
    Give chalk a chance.


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  11. #11
    Senior Member Coqui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbtrout View Post
    ^^^ This.

    The problem is that many newbies will start reading all the mags and if you eat like Jay Cutler and workout like him, you'll look like him.
    Don't forget going to the Zach Morris Hair Salon to get the haircut.

  12. #12
    Senior Member tnathletics2b's Avatar
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    Don't forget going to the Zach Morris Hair Salon to get the haircut.
    Glad I am not the only one who has noticed that!
    Most people pray for a lighter load in life...ever thought of praying for a stronger back?

    Goals as of 2/08/11 (current) goal:
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  13. #13
    Senior Member tnathletics2b's Avatar
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    Oooooooooon the other hand...

    When guys like Tom and Travis and Vinny start throwing around their philosophical weightlifting thoughts, I really enjoy listening to it. This forums can't cater solely to newbies and never discuss detailed lifts or how chains and bands can help your training, etc. I think the biggest problem is that newbies chime in and ask questions without ever reading the stickies or the trillion comments that say "Starting Strength" and things to that effect. Off Road, I agree that there is a lot of information floating around out there that could confuse a newbie, but I think some of the more complicated subjects that the experienced weightlifters discuss are really cool.

    IMO, the problem is the newbies and their thinking that they are going to bench 500 pounds after 2 months of bicep curls, not the content available on the site.
    Most people pray for a lighter load in life...ever thought of praying for a stronger back?

    Goals as of 2/08/11 (current) goal:
    Squat: (505) 535, Deadlift: (475) 500, Bench: (325) 350 Total: 1305 (1385)
    BW: 225 as of 02/01/2011 Goal: 205 by May 1, 2011

  14. #14
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Ya, I by no means meant to say that there should be less information. I love the discussions with Tom Mutaffis and I learn a lot from them. I'm just [barely] smart enough to know that I shouldn't run out and try everything he posts
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  15. #15
    Senior Member bass slayer's Avatar
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    That is my biggest problem. I read way to much on the internet. If I read something that sounds legit, Im sold. Just now I came to realize that theres alot of people who post articles on the internet who have no idea what they are talking about.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    He is sticking to the plan. And you know what? He is making the best gains of his life.
    It's nice to know that some people actually listen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    Not because of some super-secret routine or eating plan, but because he is sticking to it.
    I definitely believe consistency is the key. It seems that a lot of people think that you have to keep your body guessing by changing up your program all the time. I've found the opposite to be true, at least for me.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    For newbies, just getting to the gym and doing a crappy program is infinitely better than getting to the gym and mindlessly wandering from exercise to exercise, or even worse, not making it to the gym at all.

    Consistency trumps everything else long term. Most people don't train long enough to see that pan out however...
    Well said.

  18. #18
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    I said it 20 times, and I'll say it again "The new rules of lifting" explains everything a newbie needs to know about what to do.

    Yes, SS is awesome too. And doing SS and eating a lot of food is the best thing a newbie could do.

    But NROL basically explains all the BASICS of lifting, all the misconceptions, and everything else that the average lifter normally thinks about, and explains it all in a fun and easy to read format with some good humor to keep it interesting. I highly recommend that book to ALL newbs even before SS (which is great, yet not quite a fun read)
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  19. #19
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    I also think its a problem of translation. If a young guy is in the gym and sees a bigger, more experienced guy throwing around weights, he's in awe. If that big guy pulled him aside and told him what to do, he'd do it because he can see what it will bring. On here, or any other forum, alot of good solid advice is wasted because a younger or inexperienced guy will challenge every word. It gets lost in translation somehow. I talk on here just like I would talk to you in your face. Its simple man to man talk. Some people dont like that. They want facts, figures, and pie charts. Lord knows, I would have killed for advice like that given by some here. I figured almost everything on my own in the gym. The fact is, none of it is rocket science, but yet some go out of their way to sound super sophisticated, and well read, that the point doesnt come across. When I tell my clients to Eat, Lift Heavy, and Rest, they dont challenge me or ask why. Their not worried about the "optimal" way to do anything. Their just happy that someone gives a damn enough to help them.

  20. #20
    THE IRON NEVER LIES given'er's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    I swear there is too much information floating around out there and it confuses the cr@p out of the newer lifters. They finally get organized and set out to lifting weights, then they read something else and have to change everything. They try to fine-tune their diets to perfection, contemplate weather lateral raises will be better than overhead presses, and wonder if they are doing the right ammount of reps needed for optimum growth.

    We had a guy here a while ago (won't mention his name) that was driving people crazy with all his questions, starting and restarting routines, and contemplating all the finite details of his programs. He PMed me one day, so I took it upon myself to scold him. Maybe I was alittle hard on the guy, but he took it to heart. I set him up on a simple Hardgainer workout, gave him a simple eating plan, and told him to stop posting questions. Okay, kind of harsh, but it is working.

    That guy sends me PMs with updates now and then, but hasn't posted in a while. He is reading and learning, but he isn't asking a ton of questions. He is sticking to the plan. And you know what? He is making the best gains of his life. Not because of some super-secret routine or eating plan, but because he is sticking to it. His lifts and bodyweight are both going up at a nice steady pace. He is very happy.

    Just something to think about...
    This is exactally why I stopped buying bodybuilding and weightlifting magazines. Every new edition has a new method of training that's far superior to the last issues break through workout. That and I can't stand muscle tech taking up 3/4 of the magazine with 5 page ads.

  21. #21
    Senior Member McLaughlin's Avatar
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    I think part of the problem is people want FAST results... "omg I didn't add 30lbs to bench in my first week on SS, should I change routines? I think I'll try WBB 1 next week and see how that goes"

    Trying not to die young.

  22. #22
    Strongman Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
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    This is a good topic and brings light to something that I am working to address with a sticky that I am putting together on training routines.

    A beginner is going to train differently than an experienced lifter, and each person responds differently to training. One thing may work very well for one individual and not at all for another individual. The fact that all of these different methods and programs can be effective for some people is what creates some of 'information overload' along with companies who market supplements or fitness trainers who are always trying to come up with the next big idea.

    What I do is try to personally help people to find the program that will work the best for them.

    One example that comes to mind is when Off Road started to incorporate complexes with the 5/3/1 program and started to have some recovery problems. One of my training partners has been on that same protocol for 6+ months making steady gains and loves it, but for Off Road he needed to tweak things a bit to find what is most effective for him. For this reason I always encourage people to post new threads or to send a PM to someone knowledgeable if you are thinking about trying a new routine. Don't just go out and change your program because there is a new article about how doing handstands after arm training will make them grow 10% more.

    The amount of information available is a good thing, as long as you know how to utilize the information and apply it to your training.
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  23. #23
    THE IRON NEVER LIES given'er's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    The amount of information available is a good thing, as long as you know how to utilize the information and apply it to your training.

    Well said as usual Tom.

  24. #24
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    That reminds me Tom, I'm going to have to pick your brain some day on how I can increase volume without crashing. But I'm going to give it a while to enjoy what I'm doing now.
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  25. #25
    Senior Member Coqui's Avatar
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    I think the main thing about the information avaialable is that people want to be told what to do. That's why they're willing to switch so quickly. People need to read the suggestions, do a little research on their own, and then come up with a plan that suits their needs.

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