The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #251
    Wannabebig Member
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    I was looking at your 4/5 Day Split that you made and I have a couple of questions.

    1) This workout is considerably lower volume then my 3-day split which consist of 16 sets for back, 10 sets for triceps, 18 sets for legs, 14 sets for shoulders, 16 sets for chest, and 8-10 sets for biceps. And that is considerably lower volume then before. Would this workout still be effective if my muscles are use to training with the above volume?

    2) 10 sets for chest vs. 15 sets for back, shouldn't the two be more even with chest being worked out with slightly less volume. Also, legs are only 13 sets? As they are the largest muscle group, shouldn't they be worked out with the highest volume? Triceps have more sets then shoulders? Arm work seems to be really low volume but with my small arms versus your big arms, I should probably listen to your opinion more.

    3) Is it alright if I substitute the following exercises? Or alternate between them if I stall on one? Such as, alternate v-bar pulldowns with wide-bar pulldowns ever so often. Replace standing lunges with heavy leg presses. Replace close grip bench press with rope extensions. Alternate plate loaded hammer strength shoulder press machine, push-press, sitting bb smith machine press as the main shoulder press exercise.

    4) Lack of isolated calve work? Lack of any rear delt work?

    5) Would this routine be good for bulk season in gaining strength and mass?(Hypertrophy).

    6) How do you really gauge the progress of your workouts? Strength increase? Post-workout soreness? I generally like focus on getting a pump and then mainly working them out until I completely tire the muscle out or get a nice burning sensation. I use the following days' soreness to sorta gauge the success of the workout.

    What would be the best way to alter this routine for my own personal goals. Focusing on gaining strength and size in my arms/chest/legs/back/shoulders, in that order.

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    No problem, keep me posted on your progress.

    The boxing workouts should be fine as long as your diet is on track and you are getting enough rest.
    I sure will. I'm going to get Wendler's book and start moving more weight. Good luck in your strongman endeavors..

  3. #253
    LuNa
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    Tom,

    I have been enjoying this topic immensely and i felt with the new year it was time to post myself.

    At the moment im doing 5/3/1 to increase strength, but my new goal is to loose bodyfat while slowly increasing strength as 5/3/1 calls for. Im doing the assistance work with higher reps and shorter rests which in my opinion is helping me achieve my goal, but i want to know what else i could do.

    I was thinking of adding high rep/light weight complexes or exercises to a lift day such as the 5 sets of 10 of powercleans with short rest that i seen you suggest to Off Road. Im not sure as to how that would impact my recovery but i guess it would be trial and error.

    Diet wise, im going to be more strict with either a restriction in carbs on every day or carb cycling. Both have seemed to work for me in the past three months. I can go into more detail about macro's if you need me to.

    So to sum up, the foundation is 5/3/1 with the core of my lifting being for strength while becoming more lean. What can i add to make me achieve my goal of getting to about 200 pounds and 10-12% bodyfat. At the moment im at 220 and an estimate (mirror) of low 20%.

    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by LuNa; 01-03-2010 at 12:54 AM.

  4. #254
    Senior Member aormz's Avatar
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    Tom, I wanna try and get to my goal weight of 200 before June (couple months away) Currently, I am 6'3" weighing in @ 224.6 in the mournings. Of course I'm sure you know I would like to keep as much Lean Muscle Mass as possible, while getting rid of hopefully mostly body fat.

    Ive heard that you shouldnt lose more than 2lbs per week. Which I would be very happy with, 2lbs = 7000 calories which would be a defecit of 1000/day. Now I work out pretty hard as it is. Which would usually consist of 5 sets of a powerlift (BS, DL, FS, PowerCleans) and than 5 supersets of usually dips/pullups or press/sumodeadlifttohighpulls or something like that. After that I would usually row 1000 meters as fast as possible (around 4 minutes) than swim about 10 laps in the pool. I am doing this about 4-6x a week.

    currently my macros are about 200 Pro/ 200 carbs / 100 fat

    any training or diet tips that may help me get to my goal by june?
    -deltoids anonomous

  5. #255
    I drink your milkshake twm's Avatar
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    Tom, which knee sleeves would you recommend as the best value? I'm not looking for pop out of the hole or support.. just something that will fit well & keep em warm

    edit: and legal in USAPL raw. i know inzer makes some.. I have tried those and am not a huge fan..
    Last edited by twm; 01-03-2010 at 08:46 AM.

  6. #256
    Senior Member Shemz's Avatar
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    I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but, what are some of the best exercises to build back THICKNESS?

    And should they be performed with big weights and low reps or with medium weights and focus on the time under tension or.. ?

    Thanks in advance.

  7. #257
    Pro Strongman | Moderator Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trepkos01 View Post
    I'm 6'2", my weight stabilizes around 203-205lbs. I'm not quite sure on my bodyfat as I guess it may be 13-14% as evident by my barely visible abs. You seem to know quite alot about routine building which is something I think I need to work on. I have been working out since August 2008, starting at 145lbs, my main workout has been a 3-day split, generally chest/tris, shoulders/legs, and back/bis on different days; Or in some cases chest/bis and back/tris with the shoulders/legs split staying the same. Recently I joined a gym which has broaden me in the freedom of better and more versatile equipment to choose from but also forced me to broaden out my routine too.

    As of this point I wish to focus on a combination of strength and hypertrophy. I feel a lot of work needs to take place on mainly my squat and bench. My squats are fairly weak because, for much of my training I would do half-squats so adjusting to much lower squats is tough due to the added workload and balancing issues. So currently I squat 4x8 - 205lbs. My bench is different, I switched from bb bench to db bench around early August and gradually worked my way to 90lbsx8 for one set; messing my shoulder up twice in the process. I find 85lbs to be my current limit on db bench at this gym, that is doing db bench, Jim Cordova style which just focuses on moving the dumbbells up above your sides rather then fully extending your arms while centering the two dumbbells above your chest; which make my shoulder feel incredibly in risk.

    So those are two immediate problem areas that I can pick out, but I find alot of cause for any lack of upper body strength, to be my arms. My arms are long, they are small in general measurement(They may be 15"'s at my side), aesthetically they look fine and even quite large when pumped but strength and size they lack. I also have the case where my left arm is alot smaller than my right, and strength varies as well. I find that on alot of exercises that my arms tire out much quicker than the main contributing muscle,(hammer strength inclined bench, any loaded plate machine, t-bar rows).

    Before continuing, nutritionally I've been bulking since the first of september on a calorie surplus which was very strict in terms of food eaten to mainly getting the important stuff in and filling in different meals with protein heavy fastfoods(fried chicken, ribs, steak, etc).

    I'm looking for a 4/5 split focusing on one muscle group per day, stacking biceps and triceps and shoulders on the same day. Something to really get my strength increasing on the main compound lifts. Only problems are, I've never done lunges before, you wouldn't want them to be replaced by heavy leg presses? And close-grip bench press has never done much for pumping my triceps and places alot of pressure onto my wrists, would rope extensions be an alright replacement? I know rope extensions is more of a isolation lift and you don't go nearly as heavy as close-grip bench press. That and alternations for db shoulder press, would the plate loaded machine, smith machine bb shoulder press work or standing bb shoulder press as possible substitutions?
    Great work so far on the bodyweight gains, and joining a good gym is definitely the right move in taking your physique to the next level.

    I can see where the strength imbalance may have come from, as a three day split with a concentration on primary muscles each day followed by secondary muscles would place the emphasis on Chest, Back, and Legs while somewhat neglecting your arms/shoulders. One solution would have been a Chest/Back, Arms/Shoulders, and Legs split for a three day protocol - but as you have mentioned moving to a 4-5 day split would be your best course right now.

    With regard to your shoulder issues, do you do any type of rehab/prehab? (flexibility, rotator cuff movements, face pulls, etc.)

    Here are the exercises that I would use to build power in your lagging body parts:

    Shoulders (Deltoids):
    - Seated DB Military Press (Try Neutral Grip).
    - Hammer Strength Shoulder Press (I actually prefer the selectorized one).

    Triceps:
    - Dips, Weighted Dips.
    - Close Grip Bench Press (If the grip puts pressure on your wrists, try moving your hands out a bit wider. Also make sure to tuck your elbows to your sides and do not let them flare out when lowering the bar.)
    - Overhead DB/BB Extensions.

    Biceps:
    - DB Hammer Curls.
    - Barbell Curls / Cheat Curls (Use EZ Bar or DB's if it bothers your wrists).

    I would try to stay away from excessive cable or smith machine work, though they can be used to finish off your workouts if you would like to add some extra volume.

    Below your other post I will put together a customized split that will bring up your squat, bench press, and arm strength while providing overall hypertrophy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trepkos01 View Post
    I was looking at your 4/5 Day Split that you made and I have a couple of questions.

    1) This workout is considerably lower volume then my 3-day split which consist of 16 sets for back, 10 sets for triceps, 18 sets for legs, 14 sets for shoulders, 16 sets for chest, and 8-10 sets for biceps. And that is considerably lower volume then before. Would this workout still be effective if my muscles are use to training with the above volume?

    2) 10 sets for chest vs. 15 sets for back, shouldn't the two be more even with chest being worked out with slightly less volume. Also, legs are only 13 sets? As they are the largest muscle group, shouldn't they be worked out with the highest volume? Triceps have more sets then shoulders? Arm work seems to be really low volume but with my small arms versus your big arms, I should probably listen to your opinion more.

    3) Is it alright if I substitute the following exercises? Or alternate between them if I stall on one? Such as, alternate v-bar pulldowns with wide-bar pulldowns ever so often. Replace standing lunges with heavy leg presses. Replace close grip bench press with rope extensions. Alternate plate loaded hammer strength shoulder press machine, push-press, sitting bb smith machine press as the main shoulder press exercise.

    4) Lack of isolated calve work? Lack of any rear delt work?

    5) Would this routine be good for bulk season in gaining strength and mass?(Hypertrophy).

    6) How do you really gauge the progress of your workouts? Strength increase? Post-workout soreness? I generally like focus on getting a pump and then mainly working them out until I completely tire the muscle out or get a nice burning sensation. I use the following days' soreness to sorta gauge the success of the workout.

    What would be the best way to alter this routine for my own personal goals. Focusing on gaining strength and size in my arms/chest/legs/back/shoulders, in that order.
    I will run through your questions/concerns about the 4/5 Day Split posted earlier in this thread and then recommend one for you based on the information that was provided above. The custom split that I have in mind for you is considerably different from the generic split from earlier in the thread.

    1.) Volume works well for beginners, enhanced athletes, and those who train with lower intensity or perform a lot of isolation movements. If you are focused on gaining strength and training with high intensity then volume needs to be moderated in order to avoid overtraining. For smaller muscle groups I typically recommend 6-8 working sets; for larger muscle groups I recommend 10-15 working sets. Sometimes more volume can be accomodated into your split and each person has different recovery abilities.

    2.) The amount of volume in the program was carefully considered and optimized based on the exercise selection, variation, and intensity. It looks like you may have miscaclulcated some of the total as well:

    Back: 9 to 11 Sets (Indirectly 11-13 sets)
    Chest: 10 Sets
    Lower Body: 11 Sets (Thursday) + 2 Sets (Monday) / 13 Sets Total
    Deltoids: 5 Sets (Plus 5 Sets of indirect work on Tuesday)
    Triceps: 6 Sets (including a superset)
    Biceps: 4 Supersets (Plus Back training)


    If you pushed the split out over five days or prioritized arm/shoulder training then the template would be modified and volume would be increased.

    3.) Here are the substitutions that you suggested:

    Original Program / Suggested Replacement
    A. Close Grip V Bar Pulldown / Wide Grip Pulldown
    B. Standing Lunges / Heavy Leg Press
    C. Close Grip Bench Press / Rope Extensions
    D. Seated DB Military Press / Hammer Plate Loaded, Push Press, Smith Machine

    There are some key differences in most cases from the excercise in the original program and the suggested alternatives. I will go through each one individually and make my recommendations on how you can incorporate your preferred exercises and also what movements may work as an alternative to the original selections.

    A. Since you are already performing medium/wide grip chins it would be repetitive to perform wide grip pulldowns. If you wanted to add variation you could perform neutral grip or close grip chins (with the V-Bar) and wide grip pulldowns occasionally.

    B. Lunges are a bit more quad dominant, but you can replace SLDL's with close stance (high platform) leg press in a similar rep range (Three sets of 8-10 reps).

    C. Close Grip Bench Press is a free weight compound movement and rope extensions are a machine isolation movement. They are not interchangeable, but there are some options. For alternatives to close grip bench press I would recommend bench dips (weighted), or parallel dips. If you have limitations that prevent you from doing dips then JM Press or Barbell Extensions would be recommended.

    D. Again we are looking at a free weight movement versus two machine or fixed plane movements and a compound movement. The problem with Push Press is that it mostly incorporates legs/hips/triceps and your shoulders have little involvement. The Smith Machine is not an effective tool for stimulating a lot of muscle growth. If you have trouble with DB military press then I would recommend using the Hammer Strength equipment during your rehabilitation since that will have the most natural plane of motion and is designed to isolate your deltoids. Some selectorized machines may also work well.

    4.) Direct calves work can be performed on Wednesday. Shoulder rehab/prehab work can be performed at the end of your Chest, Arm/Shoulders, or Cardio/Accessory session.

    5.) That routine would be good for gaining strength / size; but I am going to recommend a different routine for you based on some of your specific objectives, background, and injuries.

    6.) How you gauge progress depends on your goals and the objective of your program. Gains in bodyweight, lean body mass, visual changes, measurements, or strength are easy to track although sometimes do not change drastically. Soreness is a common way that people try to gauge the effectiveness of their training but is not the best measure as it simply means that you are not recovering quickly from the training session. An individual who is overtraining would still be sore all of the time but would not be making progress.

    Based on your goals of strength/hypertrophy I would use a training journal to track progress along with progress photos (pictures taken at the same time with the same camera and same lighting on specific intervals).

    ___________________________________________


    Trepkos Custom Routine:

    Monday: Chest / Pressing
    Tuesday: Back
    Wednesday: Rest
    Thursday: Legs
    Friday: Biceps / Triceps
    Saturday: Shoulders
    Sunday: Rest

    Specific Workouts:

    Chest / Pressing:
    - Bench Press - 5/3/1 Protocol
    - Decline BB Press (2 sets of 5 reps)
    - Incline DB Bench Press (3 Sets of 8-10 reps)
    - DB or Cable Flyes (2 sets of 10 reps)
    - Machine Press (Hammer, etc.) (1 set of 25 reps, cluster set)

    Back:
    - Chins / Weighted Chins (3 Sets)
    - One-Arm DB Rows (3 Sets of 5-10 reps)
    - Hammer Strength Row (2 Sets of 8-10 reps)
    - Close Grip Pulldown (2 Sets of 8-10 reps)
    - Wide Grip Upright Rows or High Rack Pulls (2 Sets of 10-15 reps)

    Legs:
    - Squat - 5/3/1 Protocol
    - Leg Press (2 Sets of 5-15 reps)
    - DB or BB Lunges (2 Sets of 5-8 reps)
    - Superset: Option 1: Leg Extension / Leg Curl: (2) sets of 10-15 reps each
    Option 2: Hack Squat / SLDL: (2) sets of 10-15 reps each
    - Calf Raises [On Leg Press] (3 Sets of 10-25 reps)

    Biceps / Triceps:
    - Bench Dips or Parallel Dips (3 Sets of 5-10 reps)
    - BB Curls or Cheat Curls (3 Sets of 5-8 reps)
    - Overhead BB/DB Extensions (2 Sets of 8-10 reps)
    - Hammer Curls (2 Sets of 8-10 reps)
    - Pushdowns (2 Sets of 8-10 reps)
    - Concentration Curls (2 Sets of 8-10 reps)
    - Rope Pushdowns (1 Set of 50 reps)

    Shoulders:
    - Hammer Strength Military Press (3 Sets)
    - DB Lateral Raises (2 Sets of 8-10 reps, Drop Sets Optional)
    - Cable Upright Rows (2 Sets of 10-12 reps)
    - Reverse Pec Deck (1 Set of 15 reps)
    - Neutral Grip Machine Shoulder Press (1 Cluster set of 25+ reps)
    - Face Pulls / Rotator Work (5 Sets total)

    I tried to incorporate as much effective volume as possible and also use the exercises that you are most comfortable with. The 5/3/1 protocol is described above and should work well for bringing up your power lifts (bench/squat). Much of your training should be close to failure with the exception of the light isolation work at the end of each session.

    This program should provide you with steady strength/size gains while in a calorie surplus.

    Let me know what you think and we can always tweak things a bit from there.
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 235 lbs | Front Squat: 510 lbs | Overhead: 375 lbs | Deadlift: 700 lbs

    Supplements: www.AtLargeNutrition.com

  8. #258
    Wannabebig Member
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    I like it, except I've never done decline BB bench before and I don't have a hammer strength row machine.

    Also, no deadlifts?
    Last edited by Tom Mutaffis; 01-03-2010 at 03:09 PM. Reason: Combined Posts

  9. #259
    Set the mood right
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trepkos01 View Post
    I like it, except I've never done decline BB bench before and I don't have a hammer strength row machine.
    You'll really like decline BB imo, try it and I believe the row machine hes referring to is the same movement as a t-bar row.
    Summer 2009

    Height: 6'0
    Weight: 195

    B: 335
    S: 340
    D: 495

  10. #260
    Pro Strongman | Moderator Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RvNijnatten View Post
    Tom,

    I have been enjoying this topic immensely and i felt with the new year it was time to post myself.

    At the moment im doing 5/3/1 to increase strength, but my new goal is to loose bodyfat while slowly increasing strength as 5/3/1 calls for. Im doing the assistance work with higher reps and shorter rests which in my opinion is helping me achieve my goal, but i want to know what else i could do.

    I was thinking of adding high rep/light weight complexes or exercises to a lift day such as the 5 sets of 10 of powercleans with short rest that i seen you suggest to Off Road. Im not sure as to how that would impact my recovery but i guess it would be trial and error.

    Diet wise, im going to be more strict with either a restriction in carbs on every day or carb cycling. Both have seemed to work for me in the past three months. I can go into more detail about macro's if you need me to.

    So to sum up, the foundation is 5/3/1 with the core of my lifting being for strength while becoming more lean. What can i add to make me achieve my goal of getting to about 200 pounds and 10-12% bodyfat. At the moment im at 220 and an estimate (mirror) of low 20%.

    Thanks in advance!
    If you could write out what exactly you are doing right now in terms of split/exercises/volume as well as diet that would be helpful in making an assessment of your current program and figuring out how we might be able to add in some conditioning work.

    The 5/3/1 program is easily adaptable and I am sure that we can come up with something that will allow you to continue to make strength gains while improving body composition.
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 235 lbs | Front Squat: 510 lbs | Overhead: 375 lbs | Deadlift: 700 lbs

    Supplements: www.AtLargeNutrition.com

  11. #261
    Pro Strongman | Moderator Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aormz View Post
    Tom, I wanna try and get to my goal weight of 200 before June (couple months away) Currently, I am 6'3" weighing in @ 224.6 in the mournings. Of course I'm sure you know I would like to keep as much Lean Muscle Mass as possible, while getting rid of hopefully mostly body fat.

    Ive heard that you shouldnt lose more than 2lbs per week. Which I would be very happy with, 2lbs = 7000 calories which would be a defecit of 1000/day. Now I work out pretty hard as it is. Which would usually consist of 5 sets of a powerlift (BS, DL, FS, PowerCleans) and than 5 supersets of usually dips/pullups or press/sumodeadlifttohighpulls or something like that. After that I would usually row 1000 meters as fast as possible (around 4 minutes) than swim about 10 laps in the pool. I am doing this about 4-6x a week.

    currently my macros are about 200 Pro/ 200 carbs / 100 fat

    any training or diet tips that may help me get to my goal by june?
    Aormz -

    Those are some pretty intense workouts that you are performing; do you vary the intensity at all between the training sessions or follow any particular progression method?

    One thing that I would recommend is applying some variation to your cardiovascular training. Your body adapts to reptition and perhaps throwing in some cycling, jogging, jump rope, or plyometrics will kick start your metabolism.

    With regard to diet, you might benefit from dropping the fat intake a bit and increasing your protein. I would also cycle carbohydrates and perhaps take in a bit more carbs on your training days and a bit less on rest days. If you could post up what you typically eat each day that would be helpful; and then we can brainstorm to see if there are any areas for improvement.

    Your goal of 200 lbs by June is definitely within reach and it sounds like you are on the right track. Do you take any supplements for diet support or recovery?
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 235 lbs | Front Squat: 510 lbs | Overhead: 375 lbs | Deadlift: 700 lbs

    Supplements: www.AtLargeNutrition.com

  12. #262
    Pro Strongman | Moderator Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twm View Post
    Tom, which knee sleeves would you recommend as the best value? I'm not looking for pop out of the hole or support.. just something that will fit well & keep em warm

    edit: and legal in USAPL raw. i know inzer makes some.. I have tried those and am not a huge fan..
    Best value for USAPL RAW would be Tommy Kono (TK) knee sleeves or Vulkan Supports. Both are 5mm thick and provide good warmth and durability at a reasonable price. I have personally used the TK sleeves and they helped me to overcome some patellar tendonitis. You can pick up a pair from APT for under $35 with the discount code "PLWATCH" (you also get a free pair of 12" wrist wraps). The Vulkan are similar to rehband (better than the new black & grey rehbands), and will run you $40/pair from TheWeakGetEaten.

    I would not recommend the Inzer sleeves and they are not approved in USAPL.

    The best sleeves on the market are the old style blue 7mm Rehbands which you can get from Jackals Gym; but they are double the price of the TK's so I would not consider them a great value if you are just looking for a support to keep your joints warm.

    Hope this helps! If you decide to get the TK sleeves a good tip is to put them on inside out; otherwise the neoprene gets stuck to your leg hair and they are pretty tough to put on.
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 235 lbs | Front Squat: 510 lbs | Overhead: 375 lbs | Deadlift: 700 lbs

    Supplements: www.AtLargeNutrition.com

  13. #263
    Senior Member ELmx479's Avatar
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    I am not sure if anyone ask you this before but how long do you take Results before taking a break? Last winter I used Creatine 500 with 8oz of grape juice for a few months and it worked well for me. I then took a break over the summer and while I had surgery. Now, I am on my 3rd tub of Results and it does not seem to be working as well as I planned. Should I cycle off for a month after I finish this tub?

  14. #264
    Pro Strongman | Moderator Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trepkos01 View Post
    I like it, except I've never done decline BB bench before and I don't have a hammer strength row machine.

    Also, no deadlifts?
    I was going to recommend floor press or pin press but was not sure what kind of equipment you have access to and if you would be comfortable doing them. Either of the three exercises will work; we are basically looking for something to overload your pressing and decline is also a great way to isolate your pectorals (recruits more pec involvement than flat or incline bench).

    With regard to the rowing you can just perform chest support rows, or use a selectorized back row machine. The purpose of that is to hit your back from another angle that is different from the chins and DB rows.

    The omission of deadlifting was done on purpose. If you wanted to include them you could flip your Back and Chest days then add them in with your lower body training. Here is a template that includes deadlift:

    Trepkos Custom Routine (With Deadlift):

    Monday: Back
    Tuesday: Chest / Presing
    Wednesday: Rest
    Thursday: Lower Body
    Friday: Biceps / Triceps
    Saturday: Shoulders
    Sunday: Rest

    Specific Workout:

    Legs:
    - Squat - 5/3/1 Protocol
    - Deadlift - (3 Sets of 3-5 reps)
    - DB or BB Lunges (2 Sets of 5-8 reps)
    - Superset: Option 1: Leg Extension / Leg Curl: (2) sets of 10-15 reps each
    Option 2: Hack Squat / Leg Press: (2) sets of 10-15 reps each
    - Calf Raises [On Leg Press] (3 Sets of 10-25 reps)


    Quote Originally Posted by starfox View Post
    You'll really like decline BB imo, try it and I believe the row machine hes referring to is the same movement as a t-bar row.
    A lot of people overlook Decline but I agree that they are a great movement. I was actually thinking of the close grip high row hammer machine that comes in at about a 45 degree angle; but t-bar rows or any other back machine will work in providing another dynamic to the workout.
    Last edited by Tom Mutaffis; 01-03-2010 at 03:47 PM.
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 235 lbs | Front Squat: 510 lbs | Overhead: 375 lbs | Deadlift: 700 lbs

    Supplements: www.AtLargeNutrition.com

  15. #265
    Senior Member aormz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    Aormz -

    Those are some pretty intense workouts that you are performing; do you vary the intensity at all between the training sessions or follow any particular progression method?

    One thing that I would recommend is applying some variation to your cardiovascular training. Your body adapts to reptition and perhaps throwing in some cycling, jogging, jump rope, or plyometrics will kick start your metabolism.

    With regard to diet, you might benefit from dropping the fat intake a bit and increasing your protein. I would also cycle carbohydrates and perhaps take in a bit more carbs on your training days and a bit less on rest days. If you could post up what you typically eat each day that would be helpful; and then we can brainstorm to see if there are any areas for improvement.

    Your goal of 200 lbs by June is definitely within reach and it sounds like you are on the right track. Do you take any supplements for diet support or recovery?
    Thanks, appreciate your expertise. I am going to take in the advice as switching up my cardio a tad, how much cardio would you recommend for someone trying to shred up and keep LBM @ my weight and Hieght? My rep schemes switch every month, I was working at 5 sets of 3 last month, now I am working 5 sets of 10. I have been on the powerlifting for the last 8 months solid, moving from a traditional bodybuilding (isolation exercises). I try not to vary the weight too much, but I have read a few of your articles on Max Effort, and how you believe you should incorporate only one exercise per week at ME. Since I have read that I will usually alter my true ME from Deadlift to Back squat, taking the other a little easier after I push thru hard one on either of those.

    An usual day of eating would be like this:
    wake up: Muscle Milk w/ 12oz whole milk, oatmeal + a fruit: 50g's Protein, 60g's Carbs, 20g's fat

    2 1/2hrs later: Handfull of almonds + glass of Milk 25-30gs of protein, 10gs carbs, 25gs of fat

    3 hours later: Usually Grilled chicken breast with the skin + salad. 40gs protein, 0 carbs, 15-20gs of fat

    1 hour later is a training,

    Muscle Milk on the way home (I buy them in bulk) 32gs of protein, 16gs of fat, 15gs of carbs

    Dinner time, usually some brown rice and 2 chicken breast: 50gs protein, 60gs of carbs, 10gs of fat
    I have been trying not to eat after this unless it's strictly protein b/c this time would usually be after 10pm, so i usually go to bed a little hungry

    I take supps just after a workout which usually consist of saw palmetto, zinc, vitamin c, BCAA aminos, fish oil, a joint pill (which I think has been saving my knees)

    1 more question for you would be about back squat. Is it normal for me to be able to deadlift 185lbs more than I squat? I am 6'3 so, maybe it has something to do with my long arms holding the bar, and my long legs dropping to paralell?
    -deltoids anonomous

  16. #266
    LuNa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    If you could write out what exactly you are doing right now in terms of split/exercises/volume as well as diet that would be helpful in making an assessment of your current program and figuring out how we might be able to add in some conditioning work.

    The 5/3/1 program is easily adaptable and I am sure that we can come up with something that will allow you to continue to make strength gains while improving body composition.
    At the moment i am lifting three days a week doing OH Press, Deadlifts, Bench and Squat. Accessory work is the following:

    OH Press day:
    Chin-ups 25 reps total
    Incline Dumbbell Bench 5x10
    Face Pulls 5x10
    Superset Tricep extension and barbell curl 3x10

    Deadlift day:
    Deadlifts 5x10
    Good Mornings 3x10
    Weighted sit-ups 5x10

    Bench day:
    Dumbbell Bench press 5x10
    T-bar row 3x10
    Barbell row 2x10
    Tricep extension 5x10

    Squat day:
    Back Raises 5x10
    Front squats 3x10
    Leg Press 2x20
    Weighted sit-ups 5x10

    Diet:
    My maintenance is around 3000 calories currently. I try and keep protein at 250 grams and fat around 100 grams. I take in about 250 grams of carbs
    => 3000/100/270/250

    Im not quite sure what reduction in calories i should shoot for because i want to minimize muscle loss as well.

    The last month i have been carb cycling with three high days, two no days and two low days. Im thinking i will have to trade a high day for a no day to allow a calorie deficit. Macro's for those days are:
    High day: 3500/100/325/200
    Low day: 3000/100/270/250
    No day: 2300/100/100/250

    Hope this is enough information.

  17. #267
    Senior Member ironwill727's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    If you wanted to replace the front squats you can do High Bar Close Stance ATG Squats on that day.

    To change the program over to strongman-focused I would actually switch to a protocol like what you discussed above; alternating weekly between squats and deadlifts on your lower body day, and incline / close grip or OHP on your pressing day. You can do some OLY lifting with Back training once per week and save your events days for mostly moving events along with some ME OHP work (log/axle). It would be a completely different template and the 5-3-1 would basically just be a guide for progression on your primary lifts.

    With regard to frequency, I have always made the best gains training each muscle group directly once per week. This is especially important if you are going to be incorporating implement training as most of the events involve your entire body and so your muscles will be worked indirectly multiple times per week.

    Let me know if you would like me to put together a strongman-focused template using some of the information from above.

    If you can I would be interested to see a strongman-focused template.

    I thought about doing a 4day split with
    Sunday: Log or Axle working up to a 3-5 rep max usually
    Monday: Snatch or powe clean with some events
    Wed: Inc or Bench
    Thur: Squat or DL (heavy squats then rack pulls or Heavy Dl then some type of squat)

    I see what you are saying about training each muscle group once a week as opposed to two. I have seen good results both ways. Thanks for the help.
    Last edited by ironwill727; 01-04-2010 at 02:45 AM.

  18. #268
    Senior Member
    Join Date
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    167
    Im just doing this on my spare at school so bare with me, i dont have all of the exact nutrition info with me im going partly by memory partly by fitday.

    Breakfast: 1 cup of milk+1 scoop of nitrean powder+6 eggwhites (or 3/4 a cup)+a handful of vegetables such as carrots+1 apple. 9+22+18=49g of protein. 130+109+90+75+45= 449

    Second Meal= 1 can of tuna+apple which is 36 grams of protein and 170+75=245

    Lunch= Large Chicken salad with probably 1 breast and 3-4 servings of veggies which is probably about 30 grams of proteins and im not sure about the calories

    Roastbeef sandwich on Rye bread which is 6 ounces of beef + 2 slices of rye bread. which is around 40+5=45g of protein

    2 scoops of results

    *workout*

    2 cups of milk+2 scoops of protein powder which is 18+44=62 grams of protein

    Sometimes if my meals before arent that good ill eat dinner with my parents, but most of the time not because they eat alot of potatoes and other carbs i dont like. Often ill also add one scoop of nitrean+one cup of water before i go to bed.

    sorry for not being more detailed got to go periods over

  19. #269
    Pro Strongman | Moderator Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Charlotte, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by aormz View Post
    Thanks, appreciate your expertise. I am going to take in the advice as switching up my cardio a tad, how much cardio would you recommend for someone trying to shred up and keep LBM @ my weight and Hieght? My rep schemes switch every month, I was working at 5 sets of 3 last month, now I am working 5 sets of 10. I have been on the powerlifting for the last 8 months solid, moving from a traditional bodybuilding (isolation exercises). I try not to vary the weight too much, but I have read a few of your articles on Max Effort, and how you believe you should incorporate only one exercise per week at ME. Since I have read that I will usually alter my true ME from Deadlift to Back squat, taking the other a little easier after I push thru hard one on either of those.

    An usual day of eating would be like this:
    wake up: Muscle Milk w/ 12oz whole milk, oatmeal + a fruit: 50g's Protein, 60g's Carbs, 20g's fat

    2 1/2hrs later: Handfull of almonds + glass of Milk 25-30gs of protein, 10gs carbs, 25gs of fat

    3 hours later: Usually Grilled chicken breast with the skin + salad. 40gs protein, 0 carbs, 15-20gs of fat

    1 hour later is a training,

    Muscle Milk on the way home (I buy them in bulk) 32gs of protein, 16gs of fat, 15gs of carbs

    Dinner time, usually some brown rice and 2 chicken breast: 50gs protein, 60gs of carbs, 10gs of fat
    I have been trying not to eat after this unless it's strictly protein b/c this time would usually be after 10pm, so i usually go to bed a little hungry

    I take supps just after a workout which usually consist of saw palmetto, zinc, vitamin c, BCAA aminos, fish oil, a joint pill (which I think has been saving my knees)

    1 more question for you would be about back squat. Is it normal for me to be able to deadlift 185lbs more than I squat? I am 6'3 so, maybe it has something to do with my long arms holding the bar, and my long legs dropping to paralell?
    It sounds like you have a good protocol for your gym lifting in terms of progression and intensity.

    For cardiovascular sessions I would say that you should shoot for 3-4 days per week depending on how many weight training sessions you will perform. Each session should last 30-45 minutes and I would include low intensity steady-state cardio, interval training, and circuit training. The circuit training seems to work the best for most people; an example would be something like this:

    Complex:
    - Jump Rope for (1) Minute
    - BW Crunches for 25 repetitions
    - Box Jumps for 25 repetitions
    - Light DB Clean & Press or Snatch for 10-20 repetitions per arm.

    Rest 2-3 minutes between complexes and perform a total of 3-5 sets.

    I can write up something specific to your routine if you would like; just let me know what days you typically weight train so that I can work everything in accordingly.

    There are a few things in your diet that I believe would be beneficial to change (in red):

    Wake up: Muscle Milk w/ 12oz whole milk, oatmeal + a fruit: 50g's Protein, 60g's Carbs, 20g's fat - Drop the whole milk for sure, and I would eliminate the fruit as well if you can and save it for pre-workout.

    2 1/2hrs later: Handfull of almonds + glass of Milk 25-30gs of protein, 10gs carbs, 25gs of fat - If this is skim milk that is OK, but honestly milk is not good if you are trying to improve body composition. I would recommend switching over to a lean protein shake and having them with most of your meals. You should be able to find a powder for a reasonable price and switching from the muscle milk will give you results as well (especially for PWO).

    3 hours later: Usually Grilled chicken breast with the skin + salad. 40gs protein, 0 carbs, 15-20gs of fat (1 hour later is a training)- If this meal is going to be one hour before training I would drop the salad and instead have some oatmeal or other complex carbohydrates. I would take the fruit from breakfast and add it in about 30 minutes pre-workout (banana, etc.)

    Post Workout: Muscle Milk on the way home (I buy them in bulk) 32gs of protein, 16gs of fat, 15gs of carbs - If you can switch to another protein shake that would be preferred, but this is better than not having anything.

    Dinner time: Usually some brown rice and 2 chicken breast: 50gs protein, 60gs of carbs, 10gs of fat. I have been trying not to eat after this unless it's strictly protein b/c this time would usually be after 10pm, so i usually go to bed a little hungry - Going to be hungry is not good, especially if you are going to be doing a lot of intense training. Your dinner looks good although I would take some of the carbs from dinner and add them to your lunch/pre-workout meal so that you keep the carbohydrates down at night. I would make sure to consume some type of lean protein at night (protein blend, fat free cottage cheese, lean meat). Fasting for extended periods will not contribute to your fat loss but will hinder recovery.

    Dietary Change Summary:
    - Eat carbs pre-workout. Save your high GI carbs (fruit) for this time.
    - Limit milk intake, definitely switch from whole milk to skim milk (heavy cream with a lean protein tastes like whole milk if you are looking for a healthy alternative).
    - Limit carbohydrate intake at night but do not starve yourself. You should consume protein every 2-3 hours throughout the day if possible.
    - Muscle Milk is not a great choice when body composition is your primary goal. It is also not a good choice for PWO. Perhaps look into replacing this powder with a lean protein blend like Nitrean.
    - Your food choices are good (chicken, brown rice, oatmeal, protein shakes).
    - Increase carbohydrates on training days, decrease on non-training days. Limit overall fat intake and increase protein intake slightly (bedtime meal, etc.).

    Let me know if you are interested in getting into more detail with the cardio program and what you think of some of the dietary suggestions.
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 235 lbs | Front Squat: 510 lbs | Overhead: 375 lbs | Deadlift: 700 lbs

    Supplements: www.AtLargeNutrition.com

  20. #270
    Pro Strongman | Moderator Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
    Join Date
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    60
    Quote Originally Posted by ELmx479 View Post
    I am not sure if anyone ask you this before but how long do you take Results before taking a break? Last winter I used Creatine 500 with 8oz of grape juice for a few months and it worked well for me. I then took a break over the summer and while I had surgery. Now, I am on my 3rd tub of Results and it does not seem to be working as well as I planned. Should I cycle off for a month after I finish this tub?
    The first time that I took Results I ran it for 3-5 months consecutively and then took a break for a little while while taking Creatine 500 in the interim. I have been back on Results for a few months now and noticed bodyweight/strength increases when I resumed the product after the layoff.

    I would cycle off or switch to the Creatine 500 for a little while and then resume the Results when you start your next training cycle. Results seems to work the best when coupled with demanding training programs. Even though none of the components 'need' to be cycled I believe in variation with everything; training, diet, cardio, supplements.

    Let me know if there is anything else that you would like to discuss with regard to training, diet, supplements, etc.
    Last edited by Tom Mutaffis; 01-04-2010 at 01:27 PM.
    ASC 105 Kg Pro Strongman | My Website | Facebook Fan Page

    Weight: 235 lbs | Front Squat: 510 lbs | Overhead: 375 lbs | Deadlift: 700 lbs

    Supplements: www.AtLargeNutrition.com

  21. #271
    Jaynnie Coltler pigout789's Avatar
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    Dec 2009
    Location
    Texas
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    Hey Tom I'm currently on SS and i am gaining pretty well as i had just started about a month ago. My current diet is pretty much a bulk and i have 2 shakes a day. one for my second meal and one after workout. My goal is to have 200 LBM with about 10 - 12 percent BF ( alot of people want this goal Im currently at 187 with about 13 14 percent BF. I'm in this weightlifting thing because it is fun and you know i like to try to improve my physique as much as i can. So im in it with aesthetics in mind. Now my question is with those 2 shakes i have 2 cups of milk to mix in with my whey protein. 2% milk to be axact. Now i read in one of yourpost that if you have aesthetics in mind to not use milk. Should i be using water instead or does it even matter?
    Last edited by pigout789; 01-04-2010 at 01:43 PM.
    Height: 5,11
    Weight: 194 (Dieting to 9-10% BF )
    BF%: 13

    The only thing wrong in this world is religon.

    -Kevin

    Why doesn't God heal amputees?

  22. #272
    Senior Member aormz's Avatar
    Join Date
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    146
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    It sounds like you have a good protocol for your gym lifting in terms of progression and intensity.

    For cardiovascular sessions I would say that you should shoot for 3-4 days per week depending on how many weight training sessions you will perform. Each session should last 30-45 minutes and I would include low intensity steady-state cardio, interval training, and circuit training. The circuit training seems to work the best for most people; an example would be something like this:

    Complex:
    - Jump Rope for (1) Minute
    - BW Crunches for 25 repetitions
    - Box Jumps for 25 repetitions
    - Light DB Clean & Press or Snatch for 10-20 repetitions per arm.

    Rest 2-3 minutes between complexes and perform a total of 3-5 sets.

    I can write up something specific to your routine if you would like; just let me know what days you typically weight train so that I can work everything in accordingly.

    There are a few things in your diet that I believe would be beneficial to change (in red):

    Wake up: Muscle Milk w/ 12oz whole milk, oatmeal + a fruit: 50g's Protein, 60g's Carbs, 20g's fat - Drop the whole milk for sure, and I would eliminate the fruit as well if you can and save it for pre-workout.

    2 1/2hrs later: Handfull of almonds + glass of Milk 25-30gs of protein, 10gs carbs, 25gs of fat - If this is skim milk that is OK, but honestly milk is not good if you are trying to improve body composition. I would recommend switching over to a lean protein shake and having them with most of your meals. You should be able to find a powder for a reasonable price and switching from the muscle milk will give you results as well (especially for PWO).

    3 hours later: Usually Grilled chicken breast with the skin + salad. 40gs protein, 0 carbs, 15-20gs of fat (1 hour later is a training)- If this meal is going to be one hour before training I would drop the salad and instead have some oatmeal or other complex carbohydrates. I would take the fruit from breakfast and add it in about 30 minutes pre-workout (banana, etc.)

    Post Workout: Muscle Milk on the way home (I buy them in bulk) 32gs of protein, 16gs of fat, 15gs of carbs - If you can switch to another protein shake that would be preferred, but this is better than not having anything.

    Dinner time: Usually some brown rice and 2 chicken breast: 50gs protein, 60gs of carbs, 10gs of fat. I have been trying not to eat after this unless it's strictly protein b/c this time would usually be after 10pm, so i usually go to bed a little hungry - Going to be hungry is not good, especially if you are going to be doing a lot of intense training. Your dinner looks good although I would take some of the carbs from dinner and add them to your lunch/pre-workout meal so that you keep the carbohydrates down at night. I would make sure to consume some type of lean protein at night (protein blend, fat free cottage cheese, lean meat). Fasting for extended periods will not contribute to your fat loss but will hinder recovery.

    Dietary Change Summary:
    - Eat carbs pre-workout. Save your high GI carbs (fruit) for this time.
    - Limit milk intake, definitely switch from whole milk to skim milk (heavy cream with a lean protein tastes like whole milk if you are looking for a healthy alternative).
    - Limit carbohydrate intake at night but do not starve yourself. You should consume protein every 2-3 hours throughout the day if possible.
    - Muscle Milk is not a great choice when body composition is your primary goal. It is also not a good choice for PWO. Perhaps look into replacing this powder with a lean protein blend like Nitrean.
    - Your food choices are good (chicken, brown rice, oatmeal, protein shakes).
    - Increase carbohydrates on training days, decrease on non-training days. Limit overall fat intake and increase protein intake slightly (bedtime meal, etc.).

    Let me know if you are interested in getting into more detail with the cardio program and what you think of some of the dietary suggestions.

    Thanks for your time and effort! If you dont mind helping me w/ a cardio program, that'd be great! . I usually Powerlift on Sun Mon Tue Thur sometime Friday if i'm feeling extra motivated, Saturday I work at a market downtown and definitely feels like a low intensity cardio all day long. So saturdays i do not train.

    As far as the whole milk, I only drink organic and I usually drink that b/c of the substantial amount of CLA per serving. I guess I could just buy Tonalin CLA from the store, and not drink milk. And as the muscle milk goes, I guess I'll just break down and order a 5lb tub (not muscle milk).
    -deltoids anonomous

  23. #273
    Senior Member
    Join Date
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    New Jersey
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    I actually had what might be a similar injury in my shoulder blade area a little over a year ago, it did take quite some time for it to heal completely. Your best bet is to just start off light and try different movements to see what you can do and what you cannot.

    With regard to abdominal training I would not work them everyday, but you can hit them 2-3 times per week as long as you are not going crazy with volume/intensity.

    Mixing your creatine in the PWO shake is fine; timing is really not that important with creatine and the main thing to focus on is simply taking it on a daily basis. Skim milk in your PWO shake could slow down digestion, so I would stick with water.

    Bedtime is a crucial meal for all athletes, and stuffing yourself before bed is a good way to gain mass but could lead to some fat gain if you are not making the right food choices. Fat free cottage cheese would actually be a better choice than milk; but personally I have found that milk or a protein blend sits better with me and is easier to eat. A can of tuna fish will also work; that is what I did for my first couple of years of weight training (can of tuna before bed every night).

    Let me know if you have anything else that you might like to discuss and keep me posted on your progress with the routine / diet.


    Thanks for the advice Tom. I see you only do deadlifts every other week. is that because it is very stressful on the body? What do i do in place?

    Also does it matter if i do legs monday and back thurs? And the superset is just one followed by the other quickly w no rest, correct? Thanks Tom.

  24. #274
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    42
    Well Tom, did the first day of your workout today and I have to say I'm not really use to the volume. I did the back day.

    - Chins / Weighted Chins (3 Sets)
    - One-Arm DB Rows (3 Sets of 5-10 reps)
    - Hammer Strength Row (2 Sets of 8-10 reps)
    - Close Grip Pulldown (2 Sets of 8-10 reps)
    - Wide Grip Upright Rows or High Rack Pulls (2 Sets of 10-15 reps)

    I wasn't sure how much rest to take, my usual workout consist of:

    - 2x Chins
    - 4x8 Pulldowns
    - 4x8 T-bar Rows
    - 3x8 DB Rows
    - 3x10 Seated Rows

    16 sets total for back, with 10 sets for triceps in the same day and this usually take an hour to complete. Versus 12 sets. Roughly 12 sets a workout versus 26 sets. This might explain why I was always pretty sore the next two to three days. I finished this workout in about 40mins or so.

    I think I should have probably rested a bit more, 3 minutes between sets and 3 minutes between exercises instead of usually 45secs - 1min between sets and generally no rest between exercises. This is alot slower paced then what I am use to but that may be the reason that my progress has been somewhat slacking in strength progression. I only have a few worries for tomorrow and the rest of the week should work fine.

    I don't really know my place on the barbell bench, so I don't want to overestimate my strength even on a 5/3/1 without a spotter. Also we don't have a decline bench for barbell, if I was to do decline I would either have to go to the power rack or the smith machine, is it possible to do decline with dumbbells, which I do often.

  25. #275
    Senior Member ELmx479's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mutaffis View Post
    The first time that I took Results I ran it for 3-5 months consecutively and then took a break for a little while while taking Creatine 500 in the interim. I have been back on Results for a few months now and noticed bodyweight/strength increases when I resumed the product after the layoff.

    I would cycle off or switch to the Creatine 500 for a little while and then resume the Results when you start your next training cycle. Results seems to work the best when coupled with demanding training programs. Even though none of the components 'need' to be cycled I believe in variation with everything; training, diet, cardio, supplements.

    Let me know if there is anything else that you would like to discuss with regard to training, diet, supplements, etc.
    Thanks for the reply. I wouldn't mind seeing what you had to say about my diet also. I'm 5'11 @ 200lbs. If I had to guess my bf% I would say 12-15%. I would like to be 200lbs and 6-8%. Using the "should I bulk, or cut" article I came up with 16 calories x 200lbs = 3200 calories, 100g of fat, 275g of carbs, 300g of protein.

    Here is what a typical day looks like if I lift in the morning.

    Pre workout- 1 scoop Nitrean, 1 banana.
    Post workout- 1 serving of Results.
    Breakfast- 7 eggs (3 yolks) 1 cup of oatmeal, 8 oz of 1% milk.
    Snack- tuna sandwich, 1oz Almonds, 1 apple
    Lunch- chicken breast, broccoli, sweet potato, cottage cheese.
    Dinner- meat, rice, vegetables
    Before bed- cottage cheese or Nitrean with natural peanut butter.

    Let me know what you think and if I should change anything. Also, I lift 4 days a week using the 5/3/1 routine.

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