The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Rate of strength loss and gain

    Howdy all, just wanted experiences from some of the stronger guys.

    As I enter the heavier weight ranges on a regular basis, 500/600+, I am now finding that maintaining that strength takes the utmost vigilence. Where as around 400 I could not train for a a week or 2 and come back and lift the same, now if I don't lift heavy for a maximum of 10 days I rapidly lose stregth.

    My squat went from 510 to barely scraping out a 407 after 2 or so weeks off to study for exams. It is absolutely bizarre. It usually takes me anywhere from 3-6 weeks to get the strength back, and requires alot of frequency and intensity.

    I know I may be a bit of a freak case, but has anyone else realised they lose strength rapidly at big weights compared to when they were moving less?
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

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  3. #2
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Im certainly not strong by your standards, but I imagine as you get closer to your genetic potential you will naturally experience this effect, just as it is easier to get an A than it is to get a perfect score. It may also be the nature of your body at your age, maybe after some more muscle maturity it won't be so hard, but this subject is really out of my field. You're 17, 18?

    How has your squat depth been, from the last time you were here? Did you get your issues worked out?
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 11-18-2009 at 09:20 PM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  4. #3
    THE FRIDGE! thewicked's Avatar
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    it's all because the body is inherently lazy...it's adapted CNS-wise first just to make sure it doesn't have to waste the effort BUILDING muscle. Gotta then lift heavy AWHILE before you build enough SOLID muscle to make the strength "stick". Even then, if you slack adn your body no longer needs to perform at that level, it will allocate the resources to other things and the muscles will atrophy.


    good example is my squat....best was 655 til I left it alone and didn't train it much then 405 felt heavy. In about 4 months after not squatting heavy for over a year and a half if not more...I'm already squatting mid 500's again along with 315 for 20 rock bottom again.


    the body will remember where it has been...just gotta hold its hand sometimes and show it the way! Get under the bar with confidence and it won't take long before you're back working heavy.
    Last edited by thewicked; 11-18-2009 at 09:24 PM.
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  5. #4
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewicked View Post
    it's all because the body is inherently lazy...it's adapted CNS-wise first just to make sure it doesn't have to waste the effort BUILDING muscle. Gotta then lift heavy AWHILE before you build enough SOLID muscle to make the strength "stick". Even then, if you slack adn your body no longer needs to perform at that level, it will allocate the resources to other things and the muscles will atrophy.
    This is what I was talking about by "muscle maturity". Thanks for articulating that so well Wicked!
    Sarvamangalam!

  6. #5
    THE FRIDGE! thewicked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    This is what I was talking about by "muscle maturity". Thanks for articulating that so well Wicked!
    I could've just went with muscle maturity and saved the "write up" lol
    Proud to be sponsored by APT prowriststraps.com

    90* just means you're halfway there to becoming a man!

  7. #6
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    But then I would not have been so well informed!
    Sarvamangalam!

  8. #7
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    As your muscle strength deficit gets smaller and smaller, you can expect that maintaining it at that level will require greater diligence (not necessarily intensity).

    A couple of weeks shouldn't be crippling however. Some of that is probably psychological and even a little physical activity will help stave off detraining.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  9. #8
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    Im certainly not strong by your standards, but I imagine as you get closer to your genetic potential you will naturally experience this effect, just as it is easier to get an A than it is to get a perfect score. It may also be the nature of your body at your age, maybe after some more muscle maturity it won't be so hard, but this subject is really out of my field. You're 17, 18?

    How has your squat depth been, from the last time you were here? Did you get your issues worked out?
    17 for another 6 months!!

    Got the issues sorted out. I was wearing rehbands on my knees, which also seemed to be restricting the depth a bit, so with those off and a slightly wider stance I'm sitting very deep.

    Quote Originally Posted by thewicked View Post
    it's all because the body is inherently lazy...it's adapted CNS-wise first just to make sure it doesn't have to waste the effort BUILDING muscle. Gotta then lift heavy AWHILE before you build enough SOLID muscle to make the strength "stick". Even then, if you slack adn your body no longer needs to perform at that level, it will allocate the resources to other things and the muscles will atrophy.

    good example is my squat....best was 655 til I left it alone and didn't train it much then 405 felt heavy. In about 4 months after not squatting heavy for over a year and a half if not more...I'm already squatting mid 500's again along with 315 for 20 rock bottom again.

    the body will remember where it has been...just gotta hold its hand sometimes and show it the way! Get under the bar with confidence and it won't take long before you're back working heavy.
    I figured that was it. I think the big factor is my age, I seem to just be able to sustain linear progression, but the moment I let up the strength plummets like a bitch. Im sure with time my strength will just 'stick' a bit better.

    Anyone else have any input?
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  10. #9
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    As your muscle strength deficit gets smaller and smaller, you can expect that maintaining it at that level will require greater diligence (not necessarily intensity).

    A couple of weeks shouldn't be crippling however. Some of that is probably psychological and even a little physical activity will help stave off detraining.
    Muscle strength deficit????

    The few weeks arent crippling, its just weird when I look at myself a year ago and compare the rate of strength loss. It's something I definitely have to make sure to stay on top of at all times. I can't afford to drop strength like that
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Muscle strength deficit????
    http://squatrx.blogspot.com/2008/08/...n-to-stop.html
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  12. #11
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    Fuzzy
    you're 17 and squatting over 500?!! that alone is hell of accomplishment, dude you got NOTHING to worry about. You'll only keep growing and getting stronger. you got plenty of years ahead so train smart and take your time getting there. Worse thing you could do is push it too fast to early in your lifting career , get seriously injured or burned out and ruin your future of lifting.

    But your orginal question is great, and I've noticed that about myself as well. Like you said 70-80% of my pr max I can squat almost any time even after a lay off, but as I get closer to my max #s it takes diligence and uninterrupted training to maintain that strength level. If I get a set back that keeps me from training, in a week or 2 I can get right back to 80% but takes much longer to get back to my former max #s.

    but all you guys provided some insight in to why this occurs. thanks

  13. #12
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Muscle strength deficit????
    For example, if you take a test and get a 90% on it it will take much more diligence to gain another 1 point because you are getting closer to maximum/perfect each time. Moving from say, a 97 to a 99 would be much more difficult than moving from 90 to 92 because the margins are decreasing. Ease of increase is no longer linear but rather exponential.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 11-19-2009 at 08:19 AM.
    Sarvamangalam!

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