The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Tall Goofy and Gassy
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    Probiotics and you. Do you take them? if Not, You should, DAMNIT!

    I thought I would share. After all im a giver, never a taker!
    My day job is designing probiotics for the animal and livestock market. But, what I am going to tell you applies to you meatbags (( i mean humans)) as well.
    If I were to tell you that you could increase your protein, vitamin and supplement absorption by atleast 10% after taking 2 weeks worth of probiotics and then continue taking them. You'd thank me right?
    Yeah you would. Especially if your on a low cal diet and you still want to maintain strength.
    Currently in my field probiotics (aka direct fed microbials) are being fed to animals to increase feed efficiency and mainly to get more muscle tissue on them. The best thing is it is a totally natural living organism and packing an animal's GI tract with beneficial microorganisms to aid in nutrient breakdown is without any bad side effects and you cannot over dose them on this.

    See, food assimilation is largely handled by bacteria in the intestines. You have three types of bacteria. 1/3 good, 1/3 neutral and 1/3 pathogenic (these are your ecoli, salmonella,etc). Working out too much, work and emotional stress, sickness, age, your genetics and antibiotics can all change the normal pH level of the intestines and effect how you breakdown your food. Certain bacteria love fats and carbs but cant breakdown protien. Ever wonder why your a hard gainer? This just might be the reason. What probiotics do is load up your body with beneficial bacteria that are responsible for proper nutrition and they also help in building up your immune system. Since 70% of your immune system is based in the intestines. Probiotics help train your GALT (Gut Associated Lymphiod Tissue) to combat infections and crap like that. they also produce B vitamins and help assimilate protiens and amino acids much more efficiently. That is how livestock ranchers can get away with feed their animals such low grade food. As long as they feed probiotics along with it. They get increased feed efficiency.
    So could you imagine your self talking probiotics along with your whey protein and the handfulls of supplement pills you take every day? your feed efficiency woulr skyrocket. You would pack on more muscle quicker and you would actually lose some fat because the good bacteria would change the ph level that is needed to support the bad bacteria that are responsible for fat breakdown. I am including a paper on animal use of probiotics

    IF you guys are going to buy probiotics let me know so that I can give you the facts on buying probiotics that are actually alive and will work. Most ofthe probiotics being sold on the market right now are dead and wont do a thing for you.

    http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=us
    Last edited by TallRob; 11-20-2009 at 12:30 PM.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Beverly McD.'s Avatar
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    Yes. I get them from the pharmacist. Refrigerated.

  4. #3

  5. #4
    Tall Goofy and Gassy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beverly McD. View Post
    Yes. I get them from the pharmacist. Refrigerated.
    Yep thats the way to get them!
    Probiotics are living organisms. Light heat and moisture start their life cycle and if they are hit by any three they wake up and start eating the ingredients that they are housed in and then die off in hours to days.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Beverly McD.'s Avatar
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    With all the antibiotics we take, and the antibiotics in our meat products, it's a good idea for everyone to take a round of these at least every once-in-a-while.
    Thanks for the reminder TallRob.

  7. #6
    Tall Goofy and Gassy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beverly McD. View Post
    With all the antibiotics we take, and the antibiotics in our meat products, it's a good idea for everyone to take a round of these at least every once-in-a-while.
    Thanks for the reminder TallRob.
    Hey its what I doooooooooooo

    I noticed that my company as well as other probiotic companies are getting a lot of triathletes, body biulders and proathletes taking our our products now. Because, it gives you edge during training. A LEGAL edge.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Beverly McD.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallRob View Post
    Hey its what I doooooooooooo

    I noticed that my company as well as other probiotic companies are getting a lot of triathletes, body biulders and proathletes taking our our products now. Because, it gives you edge during training. A LEGAL edge.
    Legal edge!?!?!?
    Sshhhhh! If the gov. finds out they'll ban 'em for sure

  9. #8
    Tall Goofy and Gassy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beverly McD. View Post
    Legal edge!?!?!?
    Sshhhhh! If the gov. finds out they'll ban 'em for sure
    in the production animal market very soon antibiotics will not be allowed. So probiotics are all you will be allowed to use. In the EU its already that way.

    See, alot of people were just born or aquired bad bacteria as kids and it stays with them their whole life. If you were to sample the bacteria in a body biulder or proathlete that is heavely muscled and then compared that to some one that is obese and has a lot of depressive stress in their life. You will see a drastic difference in bacterial flora. Simply changing the bacteria make up in a fat person will kick off fat loss and muscle gain. Along with getting your fat ass off the couch.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Doobs's Avatar
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    Is there a brand to look for, or do you have any more info on where to get them?

  11. #10
    Tall Goofy and Gassy
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    Well you couldnt be any better than getting my companies products. But Im not going to turn this into an advert. But What I will do is give you information so that you can make a smart buy.

    Things to look for in a good probiotic that will work as advertised.

    1) How is it being sold?
    You want to make sure that you are buying a probiotic that is shipped to you or a store under refrigeration and that its being kept or stored under refrigeration.
    2)Packaging:
    Ambger glass and tin lids. That is the only way to be sure that your probiotic hasnt been killed off by light or moisture. Plastic bottle and lids to not block light or moisture.
    3) Powders and Capsules. Only buy probiotics in those two forms. the pressure that is used to make a probiotic tablet actually kills the probiotic and you end us with a fraction of the probiotic that you are paying for
    4) Labeling. Make sure your probiotic lists the full name of the bacteria (Ex: Lactobacillus acidophilus NAS) and individual CFU (colonyFormingUnits) of each strain. There are hundreds of strains for each bacteria and only a few are any good. the good ones are expensive. When ever you see "L. casei" used. It is used because it is the cheapest and doesnt have any more effect than mothers milk. Its very weak. But manufactures use because its cheap and the customer doesnt know any better.
    5) Chemical stabilisers and fillers. Stay away from probiotics that contain FOS, Inulin and chicory root. These ingredients while they can serve as a food source for good bacteria. They also serve as a food source for pathogenic bacteria and you do not want to feed the bad bacteria so that it can grow.
    Where to look or good honest probiotics? Wholefoods, Vitamin shoppe and most small health food stores. When look at all of the different probiotics on refrigerated shelf. Just go down my list and youll find one or two companies that meet all of the criteria.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doobs View Post
    Is there a brand to look for, or do you have any more info on where to get them?

  12. #11
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    sounds good rob. thanks for the info. i have to wonder though as many others are too i'm sure, now what kind of difference are we talking? If you maintain the diet you have will it increase the effectiveness of nutrients taken in by 1%? 25%? 500%? I would be mainly focusing on protein intake here
    Last edited by peatr99; 11-20-2009 at 10:29 PM.

  13. #12
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    I'm intrigued.

    I'm also hoping some other knowledgeable members will step in to corroborate what you're saying.

  14. #13
    Tall Goofy and Gassy
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    current animal digestive research points to a 5% to 15% with extreme outliers as much as 30% gain in nutrient absorbtion. Frankly, im not up on human research but I can only guess that it is similar.
    Quote Originally Posted by peatr99 View Post
    sounds good rob. thanks for the info. i have to wonder though as many others are too i'm sure, now what kind of difference are we talking? If you maintain the diet you have will it increase the effectiveness of nutrients taken in by 1%? 25%? 500%? I would be mainly focusing on protein intake here
    Last edited by TallRob; 11-21-2009 at 07:53 AM.

  15. #14
    Mr. Skinny Wrists Nicky's Avatar
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    I have a friend that takes the cheapo, plastic bottle, on the shelf next to the multi vitamin, wallyworld brand. I shall show him this thread, and look into some for me too.
    5'9". 34.-----------------------------BEST LIFTS-----------------------GOALS
    Bodyweight-------------------------BE 280 x 1------------------------BE 300 x 1
    Jan 2009: 151 lbs----------------SQ 365 x 2-----------------------SQ 400 x 1
    Jan 2010: 221 lbs----------------DL 405 x 1------------------------DL 500 x 1
    Current: 214 lbs
    bulking again -- working on my DL

  16. #15
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    what is it in pigs tallrob? I trust pig research since they are usually considered the most similar human analoge

  17. #16
    Tall Goofy and Gassy
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    the research ive seen is in the range of 20% plus or minus 5%
    Quote Originally Posted by peatr99 View Post
    what is it in pigs tallrob? I trust pig research since they are usually considered the most similar human analoge

  18. #17
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    Just because probiotics works well for livestock doesn't mean it will work for humans. Livestock are ruminents, basically a completely different digestive system that relies on bacteria way more heavily than our own bodies. I'm not sold on probiotics, at least not until someone shows me human research

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beverly McD. View Post
    With all the antibiotics we take, and the antibiotics in our meat products, it's a good idea for everyone to take a round of these at least every once-in-a-while.
    Thanks for the reminder TallRob.
    Antibiotics fed to livestock are at sub theraputic levels. They are intended to increase feed efficiency and promote growth. Noone is really sure why it helps so much with growth, most likely due to inhibition of certain background flora. People freak out and think that the meat they eat has high levels of antibiotics, but this is not true.

    A much more dangerous situation we should be concerned with is if this continuous use of sub theraputic levels have created antibiotic resistant super bacteria in livestock. It would essentially be the same thing as the mrsa situation in hospitals, except within livestock.
    Last edited by Cmanuel; 11-22-2009 at 12:04 AM.

  20. #19
    big on TONING dynamo's Avatar
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    how do they managed to survive past the stomach and its enzymes?
    My journal
    Goal(Current):
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    600(520x3 2xBW) Dead Lift
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    consistency and intensity.

  21. #20
    Tall Goofy and Gassy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmanuel View Post
    Just because probiotics works well for livestock doesn't mean it will work for humans. Livestock are ruminents, basically a completely different digestive system that relies on bacteria way more heavily than our own bodies. I'm not sold on probiotics, at least not until someone shows me human research
    Im very sorry but you are so totally wrong, Mammals ALL mammals have largely the same structures and bacteria in them. I can take a bacteria from a cow and transplant it into a person and it would the same exact thing. The beauty of bacteria to work is that they do not need you to beleive in them to work. In fact if you didnt have bacteria helping you digest food. You'd be dead. You have 100million human cells andyou have 100 trillion bacteria cells.how that for trivia.

    here are a few papers for the doubting Thomases
    http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/66/6/2578
    http://www.ajcn.cnfindpark.cn/cgi/co...ract/73/2/386S
    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00003/art00002
    http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/130/2/396S
    http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/short/65/9/3763
    http://gut.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/47/5/646
    http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/73/2/430S
    http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/73/2/444S%20
    Last edited by TallRob; 11-22-2009 at 08:42 AM.

  22. #21
    Tall Goofy and Gassy
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynamo View Post
    how do they managed to survive past the stomach and its enzymes?
    probiotics either are coated with film, or placed in an oil matrix and or capsule.
    some bacteria have a hardened shell that can hold up to acid.

    I happen to think that the older you get the more important it is to use probiotics. Not only because of the immune boosting properties but because of the greater feed efficiencies that it gives you. As you get on in years you lose surface area in the intestines do to scaring. Mainly because of desease and infections to the luminal surface of the intestines over the decades. So, having more benificial bacteria per square inch of working intestine is crucial in keeping up your weight and nutritional uptake.
    Last edited by TallRob; 11-22-2009 at 10:30 AM.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallRob View Post
    Im very sorry but you are so totally wrong, Mammals ALL mammals have largely the same structures and bacteria in them. I can take a bacteria from a cow and transplant it into a person and it would the same exact thing.
    Sigh, I figured someone who develops probiotics for livestock might have a better understanding of ruminant nutrition.
    Cattle have a completely different stomach than humans. There are 4 separate compartments. Some of these compartments have special micro organisms that allow cattle to digest cellulose and produce their own protein. Humans cannot digest cellulose and must rely on food sources of protein. There are more differences but these are the big ones. Pretty different digestive systems if you ask me, and its clear that bacteria in cattle play a more important role in their digestive system vs humans. I'm not doubting that probiotics have well established benefits for cattle, all I'm saying is that you can't use that as an argument for potential benefits in humans. That's comparing apples to oranges.
    Thanks for posting some research articles. Ill check them out when I get a chance.

  24. #23
    Tall Goofy and Gassy
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    Sigh,,,,,,,Lol, I used to work for Con Agra sticking tubes into portals in theabomasum of ccattle. Plantarum and Orzoi ( partial names) Those two bacteria when planted in people they will be able to increase digestibility of cellulose by 18%. Yes, there are obvious structural difference. But when you get to the bacterial nutrient -tissue interface of the intestine the same rules apply to all mammals. This is basic structure function stuff here. I take it you didnt read ANY of those papers I listed links for. Since you wanted to see HUMAN research. I guess you can lead a horse to water. But you cant make a power lifter read.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cmanuel View Post
    Sigh, I figured someone who develops probiotics for livestock might have a better understanding of ruminant nutrition.
    Cattle have a completely different stomach than humans. There are 4 separate compartments. Some of these compartments have special micro organisms that allow cattle to digest cellulose and produce their own protein. Humans cannot digest cellulose and must rely on food sources of protein. There are more differences but these are the big ones. Pretty different digestive systems if you ask me, and its clear that bacteria in cattle play a more important role in their digestive system vs humans. I'm not doubting that probiotics have well established benefits for cattle, all I'm saying is that you can't use that as an argument for potential benefits in humans. That's comparing apples to oranges.
    Thanks for posting some research articles. Ill check them out when I get a chance.
    Last edited by TallRob; 11-22-2009 at 04:53 PM.

  25. #24
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    Thanks for elaborating. I agree there are very similar processes going on at the tissue interface. I apologize for not reading the articles you've posted, I'm using my cell phone and couldn't access them. I don't have internet access at my home but will access the articles tomorrow at work. Thanks.

  26. #25
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    I seem to get less sick when I take probiotics. I think they are a great product. One of the many things I do for my general health.

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