The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: soy = manboobs?

  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    5

    soy = manboobs?

    i know, i know this has been brought up a few times in the past. but no one
    has ever answered the question with facts. most are opinions...so i bring the
    question up again. do soy proteins really give men man-boobs? or is it the
    same thing about 'beer giving you a beer belly(when, in fact, its the fatty foods you eat that give you a bigger beer belly than they actual beer)'

    so anyone?

  2.    Support Wannabebig and use AtLarge Nutrition Supplements!


  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    215
    um what?

  4. #3
    Senior Member tom183's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,371
    ^--His question is in relation to the studies that claim that soy products lower testosterone levels in men.

    I've read conflicting studies and I'm honestly not sure who is right. I avoid soy anyway though, just in case.

  5. #4
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by tom183 View Post
    ^--His question is in relation to the studies that claim that soy products lower testosterone levels in men.

    I've read conflicting studies and I'm honestly not sure who is right. I avoid soy anyway though, just in case.
    well, i ask coz i used to switch between soy and whey whenever my stock ran out, or if i just wanted an inbetween drink, i turned to soy. but i noticed that when i was on soy, i was getting a lil sag in my chest area. now, the thing is, i'm not sure if thats to blame on soy, or if thats to blame on my diet. it wasn't the healthiest thats for sure. i was losing hardly 200 calories per workout, but was eating an excess of 500 plus calories of my normal routine...

    so i just wanna be sure.

    i do prefer the taste of soy though. but thats irrelevant.

  6. #5
    Superman sharkall2003's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, United States.
    Posts
    4,158
    If you have a scoop of soy protein a day you're not going to get man boobs.
    5'11.75
    249lbs cutting to 220lbs
    Bench: 250
    Deadlift: 435
    Squat: 350
    OHP: 190

  7. #6
    Wannabebig Member Kuz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    0
    I always wondered about this debate since it swings all over the place, but I just think soy is a fairly crappy protein, so I avoid it on that alone.
    5' 7", 201 lbs
    Weight trainer & Soccer player (defense)
    Lifting template - Jim Wendler's 5/3/1
    Bench - 275X1 (working on rebuilding this)
    Squat - 422.5X6
    Deadlift - 422.5X6, 387.5X11
    Military Press - 175X3

  8. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    134
    Soy has a lot of benefits though, the last study i read was a recent one and it said soy wasnt bad for you... give it a few months and i'm sure another one will come out that says it is. As long as its once or twice a day and you get whey and meat protein a well i dont think it'll hurt and you'll get the benefits that soy provides.

    http://www.google.com/custom?domains...D%3A1%3B&hl=en

  9. #8
    Smeagol on Steroids Mercuryblade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,808
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuz View Post
    I always wondered about this debate since it swings all over the place, but I just think soy is a fairly crappy protein, so I avoid it on that alone.
    Soy vs. Whey

    I'm not sure as to how exactly accurate that site is, someone please correct any of their claims if you know something to the contrary. But from what I've read in other places and this site as well, soy isn't an ideal protein for weight lifters.

    However, I highly doubt getting a small percentage of your daily protein intake from soy is going to have any significant impact on your body.
    Last edited by Mercuryblade; 10-12-2009 at 10:20 AM.
    http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/

    Starting Current
    Bench: 45 lbs Bench: 235 lbs
    Squat: 95 lbs Squat: 285 lbs
    Deadlift: 100 lbs Deadlift: 330 lbs

  10. #9
    Senior Member bass slayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    598
    From what Ive read on it, soy is a complete source of protein. Almost as much as animal protein if not more. I consume alot of soy protein from veggie meat and I dont have man boobs. In fact my chest is lacking.
    age: 21

    height: 6'3

    weight: 175

    short term goal: 200

    Long term goal: Lean 225

  11. #10
    Seen yer member? shansen008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    0
    I avoid soy protein for 1 reason really, because soy is already in almost everything we eat. Unless you are on a very strict diet like the Paleo diet, which i sometimes use. Next time you go grocery shopping, read the ingredients on everything you decide to purchase...youll be amazed at how much of our food is derived from soy and corn. 2 items i avoid like the plague.

    The last time i cared enough about the topic to rad and do any research, what i found was that soy contains chemicals that "look" like estrogen to our bodies. Not in huge amounts by any means, but over time considering how much soy is "hidden" in our diets im sure there is a cumulative effect. For men who are into strength training, estrogen isnt exactly what we are after.

    Here is some anecdotal evidence...mostly just my opinion. Im 32 years old, and i have noticed over the last 10 years or so that young women are developing WAY faster than i remember them when i was young. Im talking about girls who are barely in their teens who already have grown womans bodies. I know im not the only one whos noticed, its just that most men dont say anything for fear of being labeled a pervert, heh. Its not like i wasnt looking at girls when i was in my teens...they definitely were girls then, now they are full on WOMEN. I have to wonder then if the abundance of soy in our diets is the culprit. For now thats what im going with...better safe then sorry.
    "Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment."
    -Benjamin Franklin

    Current Stats:
    07-31-09 - 6'4" 220 lb.

  12. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    134
    isnt clomid/tamoxifen something that looks like estrogen to the body? which causes the body to think it has too much estrogen and start producing more testosterone?

    Also everything looks different from when you were younger to now i wouldnt put so much stock into the women getting more estrogen so theyre developing faster theory.

  13. #12
    Senior Member ZenFitness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    345
    shansen from what I understand the only thing that is problematic about the "estrogen" like chemicals that some argue are in soy is if you are taking medications to recover from cancer. There are some studies that show soy will block the reception of some of these drugs.

    Apart from that, unless you eat huge amounts of soy, it really doesn't matter from what I've read. As was said above, soy is in everything. I use whey for protein drinks, but I eat Boca Burger (original) patties regularly (great protein snack and tastes good), and they are made of soy. So far the only man boobs I have are bigger chest muscles from working out. I've been eating soy for years, too (mostly a vegetarian/seafood diet).

  14. #13
    Seen yer member? shansen008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenFitness View Post
    shansen from what I understand the only thing that is problematic about the "estrogen" like chemicals that some argue are in soy is if you are taking medications to recover from cancer. There are some studies that show soy will block the reception of some of these drugs.

    Apart from that, unless you eat huge amounts of soy, it really doesn't matter from what I've read. As was said above, soy is in everything. I use whey for protein drinks, but I eat Boca Burger (original) patties regularly (great protein snack and tastes good), and they are made of soy. So far the only man boobs I have are bigger chest muscles from working out. I've been eating soy for years, too (mostly a vegetarian/seafood diet).
    I respect anyones opinion on a matter which has not been clearly defined one way or the other. I was just throwing out my reasoning for staying away from soy. I kind of view it like Margarine...when it was invented it was thought to be the holy grail replacement to butter. We now know that its probably been responsible for the half the heart attacks of the people who grew up eating the crap. Our species is both highly intelligent and highly naieve at the same time, we have fallen in love with ourselves and tend to think short term. So i personally prefer to go with what we know works according to history...ill sit on the sidelines and watch everyone else experiment with the latest and greatest fad foods. Lest we forget that it took asian cultures centuries to perfect soy into edible forms such as tofu. We take one look at it and decide well if tofu is good for you, then the whole bean must be right? Who knows......

    As far as women developing faster, i still stand by that one. Im not the only one to have noticed. Its not the same as saying, "oh gee whiz the matterhorn at disneyland sure looked bigger when i was 10!". Hah! Using that logic, girls these days should have boobs that look smaller right?

    Soy products have also become very "popular" today, especially among women striving to starve themselves so they can hopefully look like cosmo models. So im sure a disproportionate amount of women to men are including large amounts of soy in their diet. I live on the big island of Hawaii which has a very large asian influence on its culture....and there is a lot of soy eaten here. Whether it be from tofu, edamame, miso....whatever. Its a large part of the diet here.


    EDIT:
    Just did a quick google search and came up with this i found interesting:

    --Surely, the Japanese eat huge quantities of soy, and as a result have low rates of breast, uterus, colon and prostate cancers?

    That's the big myth on which the idea of 'healthy' soy is built. In fact, the Japanese don't eat that much soy: a 1998 study showed that a Japanese man typically eats about 8g (2 tsp) a day, nothing like the 220g (8oz) that a Westerner could put away by eating a big chunk of tofu and two glasses of soy milk.

    Secondly, although Japanese people may have lower rates of reproductive cancers, this is thought to be due to other dietary and lifestyle factors: they eat less fatty meat, more fish and vegetables and fewer tinned or processed foods than in a typical Western diet. Thirdly, Asians have much higher rates of thyroid and digestive cancers, including cancer of the stomach, pancreas, liver and esophagus. See Learn The Truth About The Historical Use Of Soy--

    It illustrates my point, that asian cultures really consume soy mostly int he form of Tofu....which goes through a fermentation process to make it more tolerable to our bodies.

    I guess im kind of a conspiracy theorist, but our country's economy is based around us spending our money frivolously. The SOY industry is HUGE...its a product that is cheap to produce in large quantities, therefore there is a LOT of profit to be made. In fact i believe soy is the 2nd or 3rd largest cash crop in the USA. I am naturally very leery of any product being marketed to the public as vigorously and stealthily as soy has been over the last twenty years, expecially when there is that much money at stake.
    Last edited by shansen008; 10-13-2009 at 01:37 PM.
    "Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment."
    -Benjamin Franklin

    Current Stats:
    07-31-09 - 6'4" 220 lb.

  15. #14
    Seen yer member? shansen008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Skalami View Post
    isnt clomid/tamoxifen something that looks like estrogen to the body? which causes the body to think it has too much estrogen and start producing more testosterone?

    Also everything looks different from when you were younger to now i wouldnt put so much stock into the women getting more estrogen so theyre developing faster theory.
    Different is one thing....different. Im talking about girls with curves. They are hitting puberty earlier...that i believe has been observed, its not just me. I remember growing up you might have a few girls in school who had boobs early. But we are talking maybe a B cup...and it was only a few girls. These days im amazed, there seems to be a disproportionate amount of them. To the point where i start asking myself if girls are nagging their parents into footing the bill for implants, even though i know it cant be true. When youre walking down the street and you see a girl from behind and think wow, i gotta check this out. Then she turns around and she MIGHT be 13 or 14.....thats scary, and it happens ALL THE TIME. Maybe im just a horny bastard. Well no, i know i am heh. Ill tell you one thing though, im not any more horny now than i was when i was a teenager....and girls just didnt look like this back then. Period.
    "Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment."
    -Benjamin Franklin

    Current Stats:
    07-31-09 - 6'4" 220 lb.

  16. #15
    Seen yer member? shansen008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    0
    "Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment."
    -Benjamin Franklin

    Current Stats:
    07-31-09 - 6'4" 220 lb.

  17. #16
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by shansen008 View Post

    Here is some anecdotal evidence...mostly just my opinion. Im 32 years old, and i have noticed over the last 10 years or so that young women are developing WAY faster than i remember them when i was young. Im talking about girls who are barely in their teens who already have grown womans bodies. I know im not the only one whos noticed, its just that most men dont say anything for fear of being labeled a pervert, heh. Its not like i wasnt looking at girls when i was in my teens...they definitely were girls then, now they are full on WOMEN. I have to wonder then if the abundance of soy in our diets is the culprit. For now thats what im going with...better safe then sorry.

    not to beat on a dead horse, but from my reading and extensive reading about random history, it seems that soy isn't to blame for the sudden development in girls. it may be a part of the reason. but a lot of studies noticed that going by painting of the napolianic era, they noticed majority of women/girls who were around 18 or so JUST hit their puberty. they suggest that the reason why women started developing faster and faster is that after the 1800's or so, our food changed DRASTICALLY! the major change is blamed on saturated fats and other processed foods, also chemicals they use as pesticieds on veggies and fruits. soy may be a part of the reason, but it does make sense that that much fat could be bad for me.

    from a sex study point of view, doctors often suggest women who are having a hard time orgasming, that they should lose weight. women who are too skinny need to put on 'some' fat to be able to give birth. pre-puberty girls who are too skinny(eg, are into ballet or whatever) docs suggest them to gain weight. and there are tons of other issues with fats and women in general.

Similar Threads

  1. Con Ganas
    By Dedicated in forum Member Online Journals
    Replies: 1312
    Last Post: 01-18-2007, 04:45 AM
  2. Things I've learned
    By geoffgarcia in forum Member Online Journals
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 09-15-2005, 08:12 AM
  3. Geoff's progress pages
    By geoffgarcia in forum Member Online Journals
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 09-24-2004, 11:40 PM
  4. Benefits of soy?
    By kazzy in forum Diet and Nutrition
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 08-27-2003, 01:26 PM
  5. Flax Seed Oil causing acne?
    By Avatar in forum Diet and Nutrition
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 09-12-2001, 08:15 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •