The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Hybrids are a waste of money

    So I just did the math on a Hybrid and have come to the conclusion that are an utter waste of money. Here's the math

    A Ford Fusion will get a combined MPG of 28.5 SEL

    A Ford Fusion Hybrid (which is an SEL fusion with a Hybrid engine) will get 38.5

    Assuming $4 a gallon which at the moment it isn't but favors the Hybrid at those numbers.

    For every 1,000 miles speaking strictly along the lines of average the SEL will cost you $140 to run.

    The Hybrid will cost you $105 to run.

    So what are the prices? Well first off we won't even talk about rebates or discounts because on the Fusion they are about $3,000 on the Hybrid $500 instead focus PURELY on base price.

    The base price of a SEL in my system is about 23.6

    The Base price of a Hybrid is 26.8

    Now remember there are big rebates on a 2010 Fusion too, but none really on the Hybrid.

    That's a cost difference of $3,200 at a savings of $35 per 1,000 miles your going have to own that Hybrid for 91,420 miles.

    Adjusting the figures to the average national price of $2.80 it'd take you 123,000 miles.

    So do us a favor and don't jump on the Hybrid bangwagon cause it just don't make any sense.

    Taking into account current rebate that pushes the figure up to the 200,000 mile mark.
    Last edited by Nik00117; 11-23-2009 at 10:15 AM.
    "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
    "It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
    "It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
    "It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."

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  3. #2
    big on TONING dynamo's Avatar
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    well minus the fact that fords blow ass and I would never buy one for any reason short of fueling the sun, it sounds like a good investment for anyone trying to lower their carbon emissions and if a ford could last over 80k miles it might be a good deal to some people. I have owned 4 non-hybrid hondas, none of which I have retired any earlier than 250k miles (2 I took to 300+ and one I took to 250, and it sits in my driveway as a glorious beater). 3 of those 4 honda non hybrids got 35-40 mpg highway. I find it hilarious ford needs a hybrid to get 40 mpg.
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  4. #3
    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
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    The real reason people buy hybrids is to feel better about themselves. Unless you drive a LOT the real cost savings isn't going to be much if anything versus buying a non-hybrid fuel efficient conventional automobile.
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  5. #4
    Smeagol on Steroids Mercuryblade's Avatar
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    You are overgeneralizing.
    You title this thread "hybrids are a waste of money". When it should be something more along the lines of "hybrids might not always save you money."

    For starters, you are comparing highway mileages. You're not taking into account someone like myself, who does the vast majority of their driving in the city.
    When you start to look at the differences between a hybrid car in the city vs a similar car the differences become more significant. The fusion hybrid can get ~41mpg in the city, whereas the regular fusion gets ~22 mpg.

    Of course there are smug hippies out there who buy a hybrid car to make themselves feel better and have no idea if they are saving money or not. But as dynamo mentioned, maybe the extra several thousand dollars on the price tag is worth the lowered carbon emissions to them.
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  6. #5
    Senior Member IronDiggy's Avatar
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    I'll just stick to my versa. Cheap, Cheap on gas. Win win.

    Minus the fact that it's kinda small which makes me look kinda big...
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  7. #6
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    I did the math myself when I had to buy a car. I think I reached the conclusion that gas would have to be something ludicrously high, like $15-20 dollars a gallon (assuming all else held constant), to break even within 5 years (so that the 'investment' of the hybrid matched the average returns of US stocks). You'd also have to drive about half your miles in the city. This was a comparison between a prius and a corolla.

    So I concur with your assessment.
    Last edited by nejar462; 11-23-2009 at 01:27 PM.
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    American cars are like fat people, sure, they have a lot of power, but they're not built well, and they have all that useless weight, plus they make both make funny noises.

    feel free to aim me, nejar462 im on a lot. Don't know much to warn you dudes, but im good at conversations.

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  8. #7
    Senior Member BilltheButcher's Avatar
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    Aren't all those batteries made of nickel, I am not sure if people put into the equation of what nickel smelting does to the environment. So I think the good it does for the planet is a wash. I think the technology is a good move to where we need to be going - even if global warming is a hoax and a political movement and a way for pro-scientists to get grants - I think energy independence is the best way forward for this country.

  9. #8
    cakin Cirino83's Avatar
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    I wouldn't buy a hybrid because they are hideous. Also I don't want to end up smug smelling my own farts.

  10. #9
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BilltheButcher View Post
    Aren't all those batteries made of nickel, I am not sure if people put into the equation of what nickel smelting does to the environment. So I think the good it does for the planet is a wash. I think the technology is a good move to where we need to be going - even if global warming is a hoax and a political movement and a way for pro-scientists to get grants - I think energy independence is the best way forward for this country.
    Nickel in fact is actually the least dirty metal to purify. Metals like iron require ridiculously high temperatures mixed with pure carbon to yield a lot of carbon dioxide. Titanium requires a nuclear plant/hydroelectricity. Aluminum requires a lot of electricity as well.

    Nickel is reduced conventionally, but purified via the Mond process. This involves reacting carbonmonoxide with nickel metal which yields a volatile product. The gaseous nickel-carbonmonoxide complex can evaporate which can be condensed and heated up to about 250 degrees C where it decomposes yielding pure nickel metal and carbon monoxide, which can be used again in the cycle.

    Either way it's all dirty lol. But the end result yields a reusable battery that can be recycled at the end of it's life.

    But I do admit hybrid cars aren't worth it yet. It only will be when scientists make better batteries.
    Last edited by BFGUITAR; 11-23-2009 at 12:51 PM.
    Brad08 has some insight for people who don't understand... anything.
    This is so ****ing ******ed it's almost beyond belief. So, if you eat 3k, you will automatically gain 3k worth of fat or muscle? Incredible. And here I am eating all this food, yet maintaining my weight. Fascinating.

    You're one of those pussies that counts his almonds I bet.

  11. #10
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    well minus the fact that fords blow ass and I would never buy one for any reason short of fueling the sun, it sounds like a good investment for anyone trying to lower their carbon emissions and if a ford could last over 80k miles it might be a good deal to some people. I have owned 4 non-hybrid hondas, none of which I have retired any earlier than 250k miles (2 I took to 300+ and one I took to 250, and it sits in my driveway as a glorious beater). 3 of those 4 honda non hybrids got 35-40 mpg highway. I find it hilarious ford needs a hybrid to get 40 mpg.
    What's esquire car of the year for 2010?

    Whats Motortrends car of the year for 2010?

    Answer those questions I'd recommend looking at Ford's new line up which is matching the relaibility rating of the Japs.

    Ok, so we will do a strict city to city comparison.

    Fusion Hybrid 41 MPG
    Fusion Non-Hybrid 23 MPG

    1,000 miles in Hybrid $97.50
    1,000 miles in the non-hybrid $173
    Savings: $76
    Hybrid technology: $3,200 42,000 miles at $4

    At 2.8 a gallon 60,000 miles.

    That's of course assuming 100% city driving.
    "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
    "It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
    "It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
    "It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."

  12. #11
    Senior Member BilltheButcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGUITAR View Post
    Nickel in fact is actually the least dirty metal to purify. Metals like iron require ridiculously high temperatures mixed with pure carbon to yield a lot of carbon dioxide. Titanium requires a nuclear plant/hydroelectricity. Aluminum requires a lot of electricity as well.

    Nickel is reduced conventionally, but purified via the Mond process. This involves reacting carbonmonoxide with nickel metal which yields a volatile product. The gaseous nickel-carbonmonoxide complex can evaporate which can be condensed and heated up to about 250 degrees C where it decomposes yielding pure nickel metal and carbon monoxide, which can be used again in the cycle.

    Either way it's all dirty lol. But the end result yields a reusable battery that can be recycled at the end of it's life.

    But I do admit hybrid cars aren't worth it yet. It only will be when scientists make better batteries.
    Ok, check out the Inco Superstack the 2nd largest chimney in the world, the largest in North America and the worlds 2nd biggest nickel producer. NASA trained there b/c it is a lifeless wasteland just like the moon.
    "When nickel-copper ore is smelted, this sulfur is released into the environment. The sulfur is toxic to vegetation. Carried aloft, it combines with atmospheric water to form sulfuric acid. This contaminates atmospheric water, resulting in a phenomenon known as acid rain. Acid rain erodes rocks and masonry, kills plants, and acidifies soil, discouraging regeneration of vegetation. In the Sudbury area, vegetation was decimated, both by acid rain and by logging to provide fuel for early smelting techniques. The erosion exposed bedrock, which was charred in most places to a pitted, dark black appearance." They basically have destroyed fishing in the lakes of the Adirondacks.

    http://www.sprol.com/2005/06/the-inc...omment-page-1/

  13. #12
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    Yea but remember it gets cars to do 100s of MPGs!

    I like you Bill.
    "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
    "It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
    "It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
    "It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."

  14. #13
    big on TONING dynamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BilltheButcher View Post
    Ok, check out the Inco Superstack the 2nd largest chimney in the world, the largest in North America and the worlds 2nd biggest nickel producer. NASA trained there b/c it is a lifeless wasteland just like the moon.
    "When nickel-copper ore is smelted, this sulfur is released into the environment. The sulfur is toxic to vegetation. Carried aloft, it combines with atmospheric water to form sulfuric acid. This contaminates atmospheric water, resulting in a phenomenon known as acid rain. Acid rain erodes rocks and masonry, kills plants, and acidifies soil, discouraging regeneration of vegetation. In the Sudbury area, vegetation was decimated, both by acid rain and by logging to provide fuel for early smelting techniques. The erosion exposed bedrock, which was charred in most places to a pitted, dark black appearance." They basically have destroyed fishing in the lakes of the Adirondacks.

    http://www.sprol.com/2005/06/the-inc...omment-page-1/

    I thought the batteries used were li-ion? If they're Ni-Cd thats pretty stupid. Regardless most metals have a pretty destructive mining operation...especially aluminum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik00117
    What's esquire car of the year for 2010?

    Whats Motortrends car of the year for 2010?
    To Nik, I don't worry about what those organizations say, as far as I'm concerned they're all biased. The only organization I'll remotely consider as having a valid opinion is Consumer Reports as they don't take money from any companies and don't allow any institution to use their ratings in any advertising, even if their report is top notch. They will sue.

    As far as advertising goes the last place I look is a magazine, or television ad, or a sales person, because they all have their bias.
    Last edited by dynamo; 11-23-2009 at 03:02 PM.
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  15. #14
    Wannabebig New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynamo View Post
    well minus the fact that fords blow ass and I would never buy one for any reason short of fueling the sun, it sounds like a good investment for anyone trying to lower their carbon emissions and if a ford could last over 80k miles it might be a good deal to some people. I have owned 4 non-hybrid hondas, none of which I have retired any earlier than 250k miles (2 I took to 300+ and one I took to 250, and it sits in my driveway as a glorious beater). 3 of those 4 honda non hybrids got 35-40 mpg highway. I find it hilarious ford needs a hybrid to get 40 mpg.
    Yeah Fords do suck ... my 98 ranger has 401,010 when I looked this morning . Now I did put a used motor in last year at 365,000 miles when my head gasket went , but you cant kill my fords . It's my trusty work truck .

    My 2000 explorer has 195,000+ ...I gave my old ranger to a buddy when it had 310,000 + .

    I hate car payments . So I drive my cars (trucks) until the end . If they are good shape I keep them going .
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  16. #15
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    I saw a very extensive study a few years ago on how the Hummer was a more economical vehicle (in regards to the environment) then the Prius.
    If I recall correctly the end finding was that from inception, build, vehicle lifespan, and disposal, the Hummer polluted something like half what the prius did. Mush of the reason was the factories needed to make the batteries and then the disposal of those batteries.

    My GF just bought a car. She wanted to get one of the new VW golf Diesels, but after doing all the math, the savings in fuel economy would take over 100,000 miles to pay off a dime. That was also at current fuel costs. She got an 09 rabbit (basically same car) and loves it, and is averaging 28+- mpg not amazing but still pretty good. Her old car was a Pontiac Vibe with 113HP and got an average of 32ish mpg. The Rabbit has 180 HP and is only getting 4 mpg less, and is a LOT more fun to drive.

    All that being said I still think that the Diesel Platform is a better solution then the Hybrid idea. and I don't understand why Diesel Is more costly, it is an easier fuel to produce.
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  17. #16
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BilltheButcher View Post
    Ok, check out the Inco Superstack the 2nd largest chimney in the world, the largest in North America and the worlds 2nd biggest nickel producer. NASA trained there b/c it is a lifeless wasteland just like the moon.
    "When nickel-copper ore is smelted, this sulfur is released into the environment. The sulfur is toxic to vegetation. Carried aloft, it combines with atmospheric water to form sulfuric acid. This contaminates atmospheric water, resulting in a phenomenon known as acid rain. Acid rain erodes rocks and masonry, kills plants, and acidifies soil, discouraging regeneration of vegetation. In the Sudbury area, vegetation was decimated, both by acid rain and by logging to provide fuel for early smelting techniques. The erosion exposed bedrock, which was charred in most places to a pitted, dark black appearance." They basically have destroyed fishing in the lakes of the Adirondacks.

    http://www.sprol.com/2005/06/the-inc...omment-page-1/
    Haha Sudbury... every time we drive by that city we plug our noses. They had to put the highway next to industrial facilities... lol

    Having the largest stack means they are producing a lot of material. It has nothing to do with the efficiency at which that process occurs. If you compare it to an iron facility, if done on the same scale, things would be a lot worse.

    Sulfur is stripped from the flu gasses when it is expelled. In modern times in North America waste gas must follow VERY VERY strict standards. Waste standards are so strict that it is illegal to dump warm water (warm clean water) in to lakes on the industrial scale. Instead the water must be boiled and expelled as steam (hence the steam towers). Much of the damage you see is due to old procedures where companies could just throw what every they want in to the air. I was so bad that at sulfuric acid plants you couldn't even be in the building while running because there was so much junk in the air. This company is quite old and it was only until the late 70s early 80s where waste gas had to be cleaned. Clearly the damage has been done unfortunately.

    That being said, I would rather live next to a nice clean nuclear plant than anything that has to do with chemicals/coal.
    Brad08 has some insight for people who don't understand... anything.
    This is so ****ing ******ed it's almost beyond belief. So, if you eat 3k, you will automatically gain 3k worth of fat or muscle? Incredible. And here I am eating all this food, yet maintaining my weight. Fascinating.

    You're one of those pussies that counts his almonds I bet.

  18. #17
    Senior Member BilltheButcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGUITAR View Post
    This company is quite old and it was only until the late 70s early 80s where waste gas had to be cleaned. Clearly the damage has been done unfortunately.
    Good point.

  19. #18
    big on TONING dynamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brawl View Post
    Yeah Fords do suck ... my 98 ranger has 401,010 when I looked this morning . Now I did put a used motor in last year at 365,000 miles when my head gasket went , but you cant kill my fords . It's my trusty work truck .

    My 2000 explorer has 195,000+ ...I gave my old ranger to a buddy when it had 310,000 + .

    I hate car payments . So I drive my cars (trucks) until the end . If they are good shape I keep them going .
    4 or 8 cylinder? or 6? guess it doesn't really matter, but the fact that your 1998 was shipped with faulty sensors and improper drive train components is pretty laughable, and granted its a truck, so gas mileage will be lower but that aside there were many problems with 1990s ford rangers which were only the consequence of cutting corners. In any event I don't follow domestic car trends any more, their business practices are appalling and even if any become the best car in the world, I won't buy one.
    Last edited by dynamo; 11-23-2009 at 07:57 PM.
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  20. #19
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    See that's what gets me. Yesterday I went to the consumer guides

    The Accord was rated a 70

    Camry a 69

    And a Fusion at 67

    2 Points between Toyota and 3 behind Honda not too shabby. Give it a few years and the Fusion could very well be superior.
    "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
    "It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
    "It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
    "It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."

  21. #20
    Superman sharkall2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik00117 View Post
    See that's what gets me. Yesterday I went to the consumer guides

    The Accord was rated a 70

    Camry a 69

    And a Fusion at 67

    2 Points between Toyota and 3 behind Honda not too shabby. Give it a few years and the Fusion could very well be superior.
    I'll take an AWD Subaru with a boxer engine or a small 1.8 liter corolla but you won't catch me trying the new hybrids or any of these "new" engines. Cars are not as reliable anymore because they change engine platforms every few years to appease the consumers. Consumers are generally ******ed and wanted "new", "hip", and "hybrid." Unfortunately, manufacturers are in such a hurry to get cars that last three years because people lease and that's how reliability is determined. I'll take cars with proven reliability with dependable transmissions and good motors. Granted, the car I have now is not great, but it was cheap and had good gas mileage.
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  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brawl View Post
    Yeah Fords do suck ... my 98 ranger has 401,010 when I looked this morning . Now I did put a used motor in last year at 365,000 miles when my head gasket went , but you cant kill my fords . It's my trusty work truck .
    Ford trucks are great but the cars are mostly trash.

    I'll stick with GM. They've never done me wrong.

    This thread is funny.
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  23. #22
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    Brand loyatly is an incredily powerful tool for a manfuactor.

    Example I had a guy in my office today dissing fords about how ****ty and unreliable they are. He then said How reliable the 300s are compared to the Taurus. To which I just wanted to mention about the factory recall where the wheels weren't attached properly to the car.

    I see this every day

    Ford Sucks Dodge Rocks
    Dodge Sucks Ford Rocks
    Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

    This happens often, I had a guy come in and say Ford Trucks are pieces of crap cause they are unreilable. I smiled nodded my head and agreed with him.

    This guy wanted a dodge

    Next guy comes in, disses Dodge trucks and guess for what reason? The same reason as the guy before disisng Fords.

    He wanted a Ford.

    I watch those arguments go back and forth. Kinda funny actually.
    Last edited by Nik00117; 11-24-2009 at 09:27 AM.
    "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
    "It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
    "It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
    "It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."

  24. #23
    "Nice Guy" Davey's Avatar
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again:

    If you drive many miles to work and want to save on gas just by a cheap New VW Beatle for like $5,000, you'll probably get like 25mpg on the highway but it will save you over $30,000 since you won't have to buy a hybrid.

    This is a useless quote that means nothing but yet defines me as a profound intellect.

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  25. #24
    big on TONING dynamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again:

    If you drive many miles to work and want to save on gas just by a cheap New VW Beatle for like $5,000, you'll probably get like 25mpg on the highway but it will save you over $30,000 since you won't have to buy a hybrid.
    uh...those are more like $20,000....
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  26. #25
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