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Thread: training like a bodybuilder makes you look like a bodybuilder?

  1. #51
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    Tom's and unholy's post's sum it up best.
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    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
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  2. #52
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    This is a brilliant, brilliant thread - lots of good points.

    I think the concept of sticking to the compound movements, getting strong at them and eating to suit your goals is a very good approach and one that should be ingrained in everyone before they hit the weights.

    If you are starting out, you really don't need to be isolating bodyparts. Your energy and time is better spent getting strong on squats, deads, rows, chins, press etc.. These help build a foundation of strength and size accross the whole body. Lift and eat big basically.

    That's why I think Starting Strength is just a great beginner routine.

    I think that then when you reach an intermediate level, things open up for you a bit. You have the experience to start expermenting with different approaches and your physqiue is often at the level where you may want to focus on lagging body parts/some isolation exercises.

    BY focusing on lagging body parts/some isolation exercises, I don't mean all of a sudden you start becoming a curl jokey and doing tricep kickbacks. Because you trained with the big lifts from Day 1, you understand the importance of them and they will always be the cornerstone of your lifting, but for example if you want to specifically add some size to your arms, at this point doing stuff like close grip, skull crushers, curls etc is going to give you the best returns for that goal.
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  3. #53
    Wannabebig Member shutUpAndSquat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    Everyone though can achieve the best physique they can develop, and that usually is well beyond what most people feel their genetics will allow.
    This is a truth many people find hard to understand. People who is not getting results (not the supplement ) always talk about the extremes. "I don't want to look like Coleman so i won't do this type of training", "I don't want to look like that guy in the vid who squats 1100 so i won't do this exercise". and other bs like that. I don't understand why people keep comparing themeselves with the pros...this is why people think they'll never achieve their goals. They refer to wrong level of ability, and that's why when you get slighlty stronger/bigger than the average guy people start saying "he's taking drugs", "it works only for him, i have to stick to something simpler", "he is too big". The point is that i've never heard one saying "i have achieved too much", so why people think they'll get "too big"?

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  4. #54
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    In all seriousness, there are guys that can go to the gym and pump out a bunch of iso exercises day after day and make fantastic progress (easygainers). On the flip side, there are guys that can't do any more than 4 or 5 compound exercises a week and expect to make gains (extreme hardgainers). The rest of us fall somewhere in the middle (genetically average).

    Most often we get guys in the middle (average) training like guys on the extremes and wonder why they aren't making progress. They are either undertraining or overtraining. It is up to the individual to determine what training style best fits their goals and will bring the desired results given their genetic ability.

    My philosophy has always been that a person just starting out should train just like most of us recomend here on this site...focus on the basic compound exercises and try to get much stronger. Within a year or so it will be very obvious if you have a talent for power lifting or bodybuilding. You will either start packing on slabs of muscle very easily, or your lift numbers will keep skyrocketing, or you will just make modest gains like the rest of us. You can then adjust your training according to your goals and talents.
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  5. #55
    LuNa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    In all seriousness, there are guys that can go to the gym and pump out a bunch of iso exercises day after day and make fantastic progress (easygainers). On the flip side, there are guys that can't do any more than 4 or 5 compound exercises a week and expect to make gains (extreme hardgainers). The rest of us fall somewhere in the middle (genetically average).

    Most often we get guys in the middle (average) training like guys on the extremes and wonder why they aren't making progress. They are either undertraining or overtraining. It is up to the individual to determine what training style best fits their goals and will bring the desired results given their genetic ability.

    My philosophy has always been that a person just starting out should train just like most of us recomend here on this site...focus on the basic compound exercises and try to get much stronger. Within a year or so it will be very obvious if you have a talent for power lifting or bodybuilding. You will either start packing on slabs of muscle very easily, or your lift numbers will keep skyrocketing, or you will just make modest gains like the rest of us. You can then adjust your training according to your goals and talents.
    Completely agree with this.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Clough View Post
    I think the concept of sticking to the compound movements, getting strong at them and eating to suit your goals is a very good approach and one that should be ingrained in everyone before they hit the weights.

    If you are starting out, you really don't need to be isolating bodyparts. Your energy and time is better spent getting strong on squats, deads, rows, chins, press etc.. These help build a foundation of strength and size accross the whole body. Lift and eat big basically.
    This is the crux of it all... A strong foundation of those basic exercises will root your training - call it "the GPP of weight training" if you will, because that is what it is.

    Master those exercises and they will take you far.
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    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
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  7. #57
    Thai Boxing Bodybuilder The Gasman UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    This is kind of a weird point. A long distance runner isnt going to lift weights usually in the first place.. and they certainly dont bulk and cut to get big / ripped. And strong mans are the same. They typically dont cut to drop fat like a body builder would. A foot ball player, such as a linebacker, isnt going to cut either.

    See where this is going?

    Yep, diet specialization.
    Ahh I'm a (middle-long) distance runner and a bodybuilder. Maybe I'm an exception. I'm around the 180lb mark, running decent times and deadlift 1rm sits around 170kg (374lbs). Though, that said I was lifting for a few years before I started running lol.

    In fact my lifting days have benefitted from the increased cardio output, meaning that I'm able to put increased intensity with less rest between sets before I get tired. The downside is squatting 2-3 times a week and running 30km means your legs are constantly hammered and get real sore

    Sorry to go off topic, this has been a real interesting thread. I agree with the approach of building a strength base in first couple of years, then adding in bodybuilding style isolations and keeping the compounds as a standard issue. Then perhaps using a 4-6 week varyation to bring up lagging bodyparts.

  8. #58
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gasman UK View Post
    Ahh I'm a (middle-long) distance runner and a bodybuilder. Maybe I'm an exception. .

    Maybe Mr. McGuire was talking about competitive long distance runners who don't want to carry around any excess BW with them.

  9. #59
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    This is kind of a weird point. A long distance runner isnt going to lift weights usually in the first place.. and they certainly dont bulk and cut to get big / ripped. And strong mans are the same. They typically dont cut to drop fat like a body builder would. A foot ball player, such as a linebacker, isnt going to cut either.

    See where this is going?

    Yep, diet specialization.
    2 people, both with 5% bodyfat, both 6'0", both 200 lbs. Similar genetic build...

    One trains like a bodybuilder, one like a powerlifter. My claim was that they both would look different due to the way they trained.
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  10. #60
    Senior Member DMedley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gasman UK View Post
    Ahh I'm a (middle-long) distance runner and a bodybuilder. Maybe I'm an exception. I'm around the 180lb mark, running decent times and deadlift 1rm sits around 170kg (374lbs). Though, that said I was lifting for a few years before I started running lol.
    I don't think you are the exception. You are proving that many things in books, magazines and on the internet get too generalized. Example...
    1. At 180#'s if you want to gain muscle mass and be 200#'s the books say limit cardio ... that would eliminate marathons.

    2. You turn in decent times. If you wanted to increase those marathon times you would need to increase your training time and would probably begin to lose some muscle mass.

    3. People entering into weight training read this generalizations decide you can not do both. It is probably true that you will not excel at both, but you can do both.

    In fact my lifting days have benefited from the increased cardio output, meaning that I'm able to put increased intensity with less rest between sets before I get tired. The downside is squatting 2-3 times a week and running 30km means your legs are constantly hammered and get real sore
    90% of us would probably benefit from increased cardio.

    I agree with the approach of building a strength base in first couple of years, then adding in bodybuilding style isolation and keeping the compounds as a standard issue. Then perhaps using a 4-6 week variation to bring up lagging body parts.
    I agree with this 100%.

  11. #61
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    One more thing. I think the key point of your observation is that those with impressive physiques trained heavy
    I think in the original post, this is a big point. From what I've understood in my research, bodybuilding only works if/when you can lift strong weights. Quick example: if someone starts off on the gym doing curls, he could do these almost endlessly for years (assuming he's got average genetics) and not build. But same person does compound lifting for a year, builds up his strength, then focuses on curls ( and can do a lot more weight), he's going to build. Strength is like the cup that holds your ability to get big. Larger the cup, better your ability to get big.

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