The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    You can still employ overload and higher tensions without involving failure.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  2. #27
    Extremely Disturbed
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    I am physically loading so that failure is the end result.
    H

  3. #28
    bone crusher
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    Originally posted by the doc
    power, can you point me to any reading about this idea??
    Chest strength is lacking, perhaps i can try this approach...

    thanks
    *cough, cough*

  4. #29
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    LOL-- Sorry, that one slipped past me.

    The only places off the top of my head would be on Hatfield's site and elitefts.com, though there's been quite a bit of discussion about it on Supertraining in recent months.

    The approach is commonly known as "Compensatory Acceleration Training" or CAT. You might find more info by running a search.

    The basic theory is that by recruiting the highest-threshold MU's and fatiguing the involved fibers with tensions beyond what could be otherwise generated, you stimulate growth and strength.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  5. #30
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Originally posted by PowerManDL
    Not necessarily. Assuming proper form and control is used, you shouldn't have any problems.
    This is a big assumption though Power. Doing ballistic sets it is very much easier to sacrifice form and control on. Doing a set with a normal tempo it is easy to correct form mid rep but if you are off slightly and you start your rep using maximal ballistic force you can't "check" the weight right away. And I'd think that if your form is slighly off you'd never even realize it until some form of injury occurred.

    I guess i'd probably think that doing ballistic sets in stages of tempo might even be better...I mean start of with first rep slow then speed up a bit until form and ROM is secure and then go ballistic. Just thinking out loud now on this...
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  6. #31
    bone crusher
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    thanks

  7. #32
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Notice why I also threw the qualifier "control."

    When I talk about explosive/ballistic sets, I'm not thinking what you seem to think I am. I'm talking about something that's done with A) a quickly stopped eccentric followed by B) a concentric movement that is as fast as possible with the given weight.

    That doesn't always imply jerky movement. Hell, I do squats like that, and its a smooth fluid motion. The important thing in training like this is the concentric movement; the rest can be as slow and steady as it takes to keep things working.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  8. #33
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    I am currently using 5X5 training. If I hit my goal for a set, I stop and increase my weight next time. If I do not, I will fail trying. This is the first time I have made noticable gains in my weightlifting career. I attribute it to 1) eating all day and 2) this method of training.

    ND
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  9. #34
    MACHINE
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    I train alone, so all exercises I can safely take beyond failure, I do. This includes any pulling exercises, machine or cable exercises, and dumbell exercises. All other exercises I take as close as possible to failure, often unsafely close. These exercises include barbell pressing movements and squats to name a couple. Training alone forces me to adopt a nice combination of near failure and beyond failure training. For me, it's the only way to train. I've been training for 10 years now and I've tried everything - low set volume failure training has given me the best strength and size gains to date, so I'm going to keep doing it.
    "He's the best damn rollerskater that ever lived...probably in the whole town" - Chris Pontius

    If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

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  10. #35
    WBBs motivational Speaker Rock's Avatar
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    Taking an exercise to failure or not to failure has alot to do with you mental outlook on lifting weights, why do you lift weights, how does it work for you, what kinda body are you looking for,ect, I think it is part of the game to lift every exercise to failure, its part of the attitude that will take you a long way.
    lifting nothing but heavy weights to failure will also give your muscles a look, it will give it your look.
    Last edited by Rock; 04-30-2002 at 12:09 PM.
    A big thanks to all my friends in the USA, I am deeply grateful for your hospitality and kindness.

  11. #36
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    Consitantly going to failure for weeks on end, taxes the CNS very hard and gives little time for tendons and ligaments to grow. If you train to failure every excercise, you are bound to run into an injury sooner or later.

  12. #37
    Mystic Eric
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    Originally posted by Rock
    Taking an exercise to failure or not to failure has alot to do with you mental outlook on lifting weights, why do you lift weights, how does it work for you, what kinda body are you looking for,ect, I think it is part of the game to lift every exercise to failure, its part of the attitude that will take you a long way.
    lifting nothing but heavy weights to failure will also give your muscles a look, it will give it your look.

  13. #38
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    Originally posted by Logo
    Consitantly going to failure for weeks on end, taxes the CNS very hard and gives little time for tendons and ligaments to grow. If you train to failure every excercise, you are bound to run into an injury sooner or later.
    I've been doing it for 1-1/2 years and I've suffered no injuries because of it, nor has my progress slowed. When should I expect these things to happen to me?
    "He's the best damn rollerskater that ever lived...probably in the whole town" - Chris Pontius

    If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

    5'10" 215 lbs
    Personal Bests:
    Bench 355
    Squat 505
    Deadlift 560

  14. #39
    WBBs motivational Speaker Rock's Avatar
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    Mystic Eric, the iron mentality isnt going to be buildt up in the same way if you just lift weights like a fashion faggot "working out". Now I am not calling you faggot, dont get me wrong.
    But I dont get the idea lifting weights and quiting when you can do to more, its like doing with out putting your hart into it.
    Mike Mentzer knew all about this, to bad he is gone.
    A big thanks to all my friends in the USA, I am deeply grateful for your hospitality and kindness.

  15. #40
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    One reason I don't:

    The last few weeks I've been putting a lot of effort into increasing my shrug, just for example.

    I went from 385x6 to attempting 405x6 which I got; the next week, I started with a 405x6, which was still a work set, then got 425x5. If I'd gone to failure on that first set, there's no way in hell I'd have been able to improve.

    If I'd taken those sets to failure just because of some insane philosophy that says I have to take every set to failure, I very likely wouldn't have improved.

    I focus on the overload, be it by weight or number of sets with a weight, rather than "failure"
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  16. #41
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    You could have done 425 as your first work set though, and maybe gotten 8 reps. And then done 405 for 6. Then it would be even more improvement wouldn't it? Just my thoughts since that's how I've been training lately. If I'm trying to increase poundage why not do it while I'm fresh straight after warmups.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  17. #42
    Genetic Experiment GeneticallyGifted's Avatar
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    Me too!!

    Originally posted by Horseman
    For me failure is the product of overload and lengthening of TUT by slower tempo.
    I use the same theory. TEMPO....TUT! I also use forced reps as well with this. Exceeding failure and moving on the INSANITY.

    I believe it increase the work you place you muscle under.

    My Opinion, My way!!
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  18. #43
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ElPietro

    Doing ballistic sets it is very much easier to sacrifice form and control on. Doing a set with a normal tempo it is easy to correct form mid rep but if you are off slightly and you start your rep using maximal ballistic force you can't "check" the weight right away. And I'd think that if your form is slighly off you'd never even realize it until some form of injury occurred.
    I have to second this. If one is a competitive powerlifter, lifting explosively is necessary to be competitive. If you are not, though, I think it's a horrible idea. If you look around I think you'll find that the people that use explosive concentrics are complain of joint problems and injuries with alarming frequency. By lifting in an explosive manner, even if proper form is maintained, you are subjecting your joints to excessive force. I have never suffered pain or problems while lifting under control and with proper form. I cannot say the same for my occasional forays into lifting explosively.

  19. #44
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    gino, you may never experience any serious injuries. However, if you don't then you are very lucky. It may take several years for this to happen. It's a simple fact that tendons don't grow as fast as muscle tissue. Therefore, just because a muscle can lift a certain weight, doesn't mean that the tendon is up to the task as well. Going to failure on every set definately has its place, but I don't think its a good idea for extended periods of time.

  20. #45
    Senior Member Accipiter's Avatar
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    Powerman, first of all, using F=M*A, by your logic, if I could use 2 lbs. pink dumbells, and move them fast enough, I'd put my chest into just as much hypertrophy as the 85 lbs. db's for 6 slow reps.

    2. I do my heaviest sets first, so not being able to increase weight set to set is not a problem, I actually drop it, from a 6 rep weight, to an 8 rep, to a 10 rep weight.

  21. #46
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    I agree with ElPeitro. If you're training to failure, I think more reps with a weight before failure is just a good indication of improvement as adding weight and doing the same amount of reps. Adding reps before weight is the whole philosophy behind my training right now. I'll use the same weight for my first exercise every week until I can get 12 unassisted reps. Once I reach 12 reps, I bump the weight up for the next workout, which reduces the amount of reps I can get, and the cycle starts all over again. For instance, I've started every chest workout for the last couple months with flat dumbell press. I started out getting 90 lb dumbells for 8 or 9 reps, and now I'm getting the 100's for 11 reps. I guess it's all personal choice though, but strength progress can be measured many ways, not just weight increase.
    "He's the best damn rollerskater that ever lived...probably in the whole town" - Chris Pontius

    If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

    5'10" 215 lbs
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    Squat 505
    Deadlift 560

  22. #47
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Accipiter
    Powerman, first of all, using F=M*A, by your logic, if I could use 2 lbs. pink dumbells, and move them fast enough, I'd put my chest into just as much hypertrophy as the 85 lbs. db's for 6 slow reps.

    That's why I originally made the point about a minimal threshold tension. You can't accelerate a 2 lb weight fast enough to generate the same tension as an 85 lb weight. You can, however, do it with a 75 lb weight.

    2. I do my heaviest sets first, so not being able to increase weight set to set is not a problem, I actually drop it, from a 6 rep weight, to an 8 rep, to a 10 rep weight.


    Then by all means do what works. I'm not discounting it, just pointing out alternatives.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  23. #48
    MACHINE
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    Originally posted by Logo
    gino, you may never experience any serious injuries. However, if you don't then you are very lucky. It may take several years for this to happen. It's a simple fact that tendons don't grow as fast as muscle tissue. Therefore, just because a muscle can lift a certain weight, doesn't mean that the tendon is up to the task as well. Going to failure on every set definately has its place, but I don't think its a good idea for extended periods of time.
    If you follow that philosophy, one of two things must be true:

    1) Training to failure or beyond will grow your muscles faster than NOT training to failure

    2) Not training to failure will grow your tendons faster than training to failure or beyond
    "He's the best damn rollerskater that ever lived...probably in the whole town" - Chris Pontius

    If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

    5'10" 215 lbs
    Personal Bests:
    Bench 355
    Squat 505
    Deadlift 560

  24. #49
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Blood&Iron

    I have to second this. If one is a competitive powerlifter, lifting explosively is necessary to be competitive. If you are not, though, I think it's a horrible idea. If you look around I think you'll find that the people that use explosive concentrics are complain of joint problems and injuries with alarming frequency. By lifting in an explosive manner, even if proper form is maintained, you are subjecting your joints to excessive force. I have never suffered pain or problems while lifting under control and with proper form. I cannot say the same for my occasional forays into lifting explosively.
    I must have wonderful genetics for connective tissues then, since I've been lifting that way for all but about 6-8 months of my entire time in the gym without any problems (except for the stiff pec tendon which I attribute to overuse, not my methodology).
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  25. #50
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting little snippet I found on the subject:

    http://www.dolfzine.com/page210.htm
    Last edited by PowerManDL; 04-30-2002 at 01:40 PM.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

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