The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member thecoder0's Avatar
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    Newbies What are YOU Using ?

    I am interested to hear from Newbies like myself and for the purpose of this post well call day 1 to lets say 18 months as being a newby training period.

    My Question what routines are you using what supplements and what dietry regimes are giving you good results...

    I will start 7 weeks in and gained 11 pounds using a 3000 cal diet that includes proteins from shakes.. also using creatine...and have a generaly cleanish diet..

    .My strength gains are OK but could be better. Body shape is improving but feel im gaining a bit of fat....On the downside I am just recovering from 4 days of influenza so back in the Gym tomoro...I feel about as strong as a nine year old girl at the minute...

    I am using a routine that I put together then the guys on here changed for me , been working great but my problem is in my head I go and bulk I feel strong and good....then I look in the mirror see the belly and think I should cut....But I hate feeling light...makes me feel weak.

    I am now thinking I maybe should have more of a powerlifting mentality than BB.

    Anyhow thats me what works or doesnt work for you folks...

    D
    Last edited by thecoder0; 12-08-2009 at 09:26 AM.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member feardaram's Avatar
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    i've been lifting for almost 6 weeks now (since 10/29), using the starting strength routine.

    link to journal: http://wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130955

    my immediate goal when i began lifting was to continue to cut away fat (i had been on a cut for some time, just wasn't lifting). i try to consume roughly 2000 cal/day, but it fluctuates. i try to get in as much protein as i can, but my diet certainly isn't clean (i'm being lazy with it thus far).

    i feel like i've made some fairly significant strength gains, even though i'm not eating to bulk up, which would be attributed to me being really weak starting out.

    i am using creatine, nitor, multi-plus, nitrean, and just finishing up a bottle of ETS.

    over this 6 week period my weight has stayed pretty much the same. however, i'm hoping i've added a little bit of lean mass, gained water weight (from the creatine), and cut some fat... evening it all out. time will tell i guess.

  4. #3
    Senior Member thecoder0's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing that feardaram ...One question are you using SS to the letter or have you adapted it in anyway and what do you think to the programme....sorry that was 3 questions.

  5. #4
    Senior Member feardaram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecoder0 View Post
    Thanks for sharing that feardaram ...One question are you using SS to the letter or have you adapted it in anyway and what do you think to the programme....sorry that was 3 questions.
    i haven't yet purchased the book, so i don't have all the info, but it appears i have modified it some (based on the thread dedicated to the routine on here). i am subbing bent over barbell rows in place of the cleans, otherwise i believe i am following the routine.

    workout A: squat, bench, deadlift
    workout B: squat, overhead barbell press, row
    workout 3 times per week, alternating A and B

    so far i am loving it, for a variety of reasons. it's simple, the movements are pretty fun, it's working, most of it takes place in the power rack (which no one at my gym uses), etc.

    i especially like how it has you squat 3 times per week. i've lifted previously (years ago), and had squats in the routine but only once per week. i never got comfortable with the movement, my form probably suffered, i never knew how much weight to use, and as a result i didn't make much gains with it. with SS you are forced to get comfortable with squats because you are doing them all the time.

    the gains i've made so far have been very encouraging. i know it has to do with me being a newbie and starting off light, but i'll take what i can get.

  6. #5
    Senior Member thecoder0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feardaram View Post
    i haven't yet purchased the book, so i don't have all the info, but it appears i have modified it some (based on the thread dedicated to the routine on here). i am subbing bent over barbell rows in place of the cleans, otherwise i believe i am following the routine.

    workout A: squat, bench, deadlift
    workout B: squat, overhead barbell press, row
    workout 3 times per week, alternating A and B

    so far i am loving it, for a variety of reasons. it's simple, the movements are pretty fun, it's working, most of it takes place in the power rack (which no one at my gym uses), etc.

    i especially like how it has you squat 3 times per week. i've lifted previously (years ago), and had squats in the routine but only once per week. i never got comfortable with the movement, my form probably suffered, i never knew how much weight to use, and as a result i didn't make much gains with it. with SS you are forced to get comfortable with squats because you are doing them all the time.

    the gains i've made so far have been very encouraging. i know it has to do with me being a newbie and starting off light, but i'll take what i can get.
    I know that all the conventional wisdom says that that is enough to make significant progress but it still does not look a lot ...

  7. #6
    Senior Member skinny99's Avatar
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    Ok I'll play! Been going to the gym for six months doing SS for three!
    I started with a low carb diet and now I cycle.I eat lots of meat.
    I take Nitrean,Fish Oil,multi,glucosomine,Creatine 500 and Nitor.

    Since I started in the gym I have lost 55 pounds,10 inches off my waist and look like a different person.Since SS I have learned how to squat,dead and my bench has gone from 155 to 265. Gonna do SS through end of December then revaluate my goals! Deadlifting is awesome!
    Last edited by skinny99; 12-08-2009 at 11:05 AM.
    "The deadlift is more functional in that itís very hard to imagine a more useful application of strength than picking heavy *h*t up off the ground" Rip

    Max 3x5 Goal 3x5 by 12/31/11 *1X5
    Bench (245) (275) 285x1x1 335
    Dead (385)* (445) 435x1x1 505
    Squat (320) (355) 355X1X1 405
    Squat (195) (275) 20 Reppers!
    (950) (1075) 1075 1245 Goals (Not including 20 reps)
    5'10" 288Lbs 02/01/2011 Goal Weight 230 On my way back from a Break!

  8. #7
    Senior Member thecoder0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny99 View Post
    Ok I'll play! Been going to the gym for six months doing SS for three!
    I started with a low carb diet and now I cycle.I eat lots of meat.
    I take Nitrean,Fish Oil,multi,glucosomine,Creatine 500 and Nitor.

    Since I started in the gym I have lost 55 pounds,10 inches off my waist and look like a different person.Since SS I have learned how to squat,dead and my bench has gone from 155 to 265. Gonna do SS through end of December then revaluate my goals! Deadlifting is awesome!
    Big Congrats on the weight loss skinny ...You say your Gonna do SS till end of December...have you started to level of with increases in the weights your lifting ?

  9. #8
    Senior Member feardaram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecoder0 View Post
    I know that all the conventional wisdom says that that is enough to make significant progress but it still does not look a lot ...
    i had similar thoughts when i was first starting out. however, the simplicity of the routine has turned out to be a blessing. less to think about in the gym, less equipment i need access to, less time spent in the gym, and the more focused i can be (on form, my weights, my progress).

    with only 7-9 working sets per workout it makes it easy to see and realize strength gains. the idea is to try and increase the weight of each exercise each and every workout. that won't always happen, especially once you start getting into what people might consider real weight (which is why it's starting strength), but it's an aggressive way to view each workout. if you are doing 15-20 sets of work it's going to be hard to make noticeable gains across the board, there is just no way to not be dead tired well before the end of the workout (unless you are not pushing yourself from the beginning).

    if you check out my journal i've made solid gains almost every workout on each exercise. today i'm hoping to squat 225, when 6 weeks ago i started with only 135 and it felt like the world on my shoulders. this is going to slow down at some point, probably soon, but the numbers don't lie that i'm getting stronger (and thus there isn't too little volume).
    Last edited by feardaram; 12-08-2009 at 11:12 AM.

  10. #9
    Senior Member thecoder0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feardaram View Post
    i had similar thoughts when i was first starting out. however, the simplicity of the routine has turned out to be a blessing. less to think about in the gym, less equipment i need access to, less time spent in the gym, and the more focused i can be (on form, my weights, my progress).

    with only 7-9 working sets per workout it makes it easy to see and realize strength gains. the idea is to try and increase the weight of each exercise each and every workout. that won't always happen, especially once you start getting into what people might consider real weight (which is why it's starting strength), but it's an aggressive way to view each workout. if you are doing 15-20 sets of work it's going to be hard to make noticeable gains across the board, there is just no way to not be dead tired well before the end of the workout (unless you are not pushing yourself from the beginning).

    if you check out my journal i've made solid gains almost every workout on each exercise. today i'm hoping to squat 225, when 6 weeks ago i started with only 135 and it felt like the world on my shoulders. this is going to slow down at some point, probably soon, but the numbers don't lie that i'm getting stronger (and thus there isn't too little volume).
    The numbers don't lie good progress there mate..

    on the deads I see its 5x1 how long are you resting in between or are you doing 5 straight off. Also are you doing any warmup sets on your routine
    Last edited by thecoder0; 12-08-2009 at 11:20 AM.

  11. #10
    Senior Member feardaram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecoder0 View Post
    The numbers don't lie good progress there mate..

    on the deads I see its 5x1 how long are you resting in between or are you doing 5 straight off. Also are you doing any warmup sets on your routine
    yes, i am doing warm ups for all the exercises, typically 3 sets. for example, on squats today ill do a set of 5 with the bar, at 135, then 185. then i'll attempt 3x5 with 225 (the working sets).

    the terminology in my journal was a little wonky (it has since changed), i was putting 5x3 and 5x1 instead of 3x5 and 1x5. for the deadlifts, after warm up sets, i do 1 set of 5 reps. there is a slight pause at the bottom to make sure my grip/back arch/stance is all set, but there is no actual rest break between reps.
    Last edited by feardaram; 12-08-2009 at 11:35 AM.

  12. #11
    Senior Member skinny99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecoder0 View Post
    Big Congrats on the weight loss skinny ...You say your Gonna do SS till end of December...have you started to level of with increases in the weights your lifting ?
    No I have not leveled off on my lifts yet. I am just getting a little bored

    I am thinking of doing the 30 day bench program that Daniel Clough wrote in Jan. I am gonna eat a little more in January and then get back to a little more strict of a diet in Febuary and March to get ready for summer. I will prob go back to SS after the 30 day program,kinda want a little change,maybe reshock my body. I havent made a final decision yet,I may just stay on SS til it is time to transition to the Texas Method. Sometimes change is good!

    SS is very simple and beats me to death sometimes but I like squatting three days a week. If anybody doubts the intensity of SS they dont have a enough steel on the bar. Deads and Powercleans whoop my butt!
    "The deadlift is more functional in that itís very hard to imagine a more useful application of strength than picking heavy *h*t up off the ground" Rip

    Max 3x5 Goal 3x5 by 12/31/11 *1X5
    Bench (245) (275) 285x1x1 335
    Dead (385)* (445) 435x1x1 505
    Squat (320) (355) 355X1X1 405
    Squat (195) (275) 20 Reppers!
    (950) (1075) 1075 1245 Goals (Not including 20 reps)
    5'10" 288Lbs 02/01/2011 Goal Weight 230 On my way back from a Break!

  13. #12
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    If you are on SS then Id suggest doing Texas Method for a while, it is a perfect transition. Im sure you can add 30lbs to your bench, SQ and DL in first 30 days on TM.

    Im an advocate of advancing as the body necessitates, so I suggest holding off a more complex routine until your body requires the complexity.
    Sarvamangalam!

  14. #13
    Senior Member skinny99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feardaram View Post
    yes, i am doing warm ups for all the exercises, typically 3 sets. for example, on squats today ill do a set of 5 with the bar, at 135, then 185. then i'll attempt 3x5 with 225 (the working sets).

    the terminology in my journal was a little wonky (it has since changed), i was putting 5x3 and 5x1 instead of 3x5 and 1x5. for the deadlifts, after warm up sets, i do 1 set of 5 reps. there is a slight pause at the bottom to make sure my grip/back arch/stance is all set, but there is no actual rest break between reps.
    If you are new to SS and are not following the warmup protocol then you are not doin the program completely. When I first started I thought the program was to easy til I started warming up properly! This outlines it!


    http://www.scribd.com/doc/3382978/St...ook-Calculator
    "The deadlift is more functional in that itís very hard to imagine a more useful application of strength than picking heavy *h*t up off the ground" Rip

    Max 3x5 Goal 3x5 by 12/31/11 *1X5
    Bench (245) (275) 285x1x1 335
    Dead (385)* (445) 435x1x1 505
    Squat (320) (355) 355X1X1 405
    Squat (195) (275) 20 Reppers!
    (950) (1075) 1075 1245 Goals (Not including 20 reps)
    5'10" 288Lbs 02/01/2011 Goal Weight 230 On my way back from a Break!

  15. #14
    Senior Member skinny99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    If you are on SS then Id suggest doing Texas Method for a while, it is a perfect transition. Im sure you can add 30lbs to your bench, SQ and DL in first 30 days on TM.

    Im an advocate of advancing as the body necessitates, so I suggest holding off a more complex routine until your body requires the complexity.
    Trust me before I make any changes to my program I will look for some guidance from some of the senior guys around here! I only think of changing to work in some different movements,but I have learned enough not to screw around with SS. I just follow it strict.

    I have looked at Texas Method and think I understand why it works and will definitly transition to it at some point.
    "The deadlift is more functional in that itís very hard to imagine a more useful application of strength than picking heavy *h*t up off the ground" Rip

    Max 3x5 Goal 3x5 by 12/31/11 *1X5
    Bench (245) (275) 285x1x1 335
    Dead (385)* (445) 435x1x1 505
    Squat (320) (355) 355X1X1 405
    Squat (195) (275) 20 Reppers!
    (950) (1075) 1075 1245 Goals (Not including 20 reps)
    5'10" 288Lbs 02/01/2011 Goal Weight 230 On my way back from a Break!

  16. #15
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    The best investment I made toward knowledge was Starting Strength and Practical Programming. You can get the both at www.atlargenutrition.com

    Understanding both of these books will put you far ahead of most of the lifting community.
    Sarvamangalam!

  17. #16
    Senior Member skinny99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    The best investment I made toward knowledge was Starting Strength and Practical Programming. You can get the both at www.atlargenutrition.com

    Understanding both of these books will put you far ahead of most of the lifting community.
    I have SS and am gonna get PP with my next supp order in Jan!
    "The deadlift is more functional in that itís very hard to imagine a more useful application of strength than picking heavy *h*t up off the ground" Rip

    Max 3x5 Goal 3x5 by 12/31/11 *1X5
    Bench (245) (275) 285x1x1 335
    Dead (385)* (445) 435x1x1 505
    Squat (320) (355) 355X1X1 405
    Squat (195) (275) 20 Reppers!
    (950) (1075) 1075 1245 Goals (Not including 20 reps)
    5'10" 288Lbs 02/01/2011 Goal Weight 230 On my way back from a Break!

  18. #17
    Senior Member feardaram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny99 View Post
    If you are new to SS and are not following the warmup protocol then you are not doin the program completely. When I first started I thought the program was to easy til I started warming up properly! This outlines it!


    http://www.scribd.com/doc/3382978/St...ook-Calculator
    thanks for the link, i didn't know the warm ups were specifically laid out anywhere. i am doing something similar, but not exactly that. i'll change to this warm up program.

  19. #18
    Senior Member thecoder0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feardaram View Post
    thanks for the link, i didn't know the warm ups were specifically laid out anywhere. i am doing something similar, but not exactly that. i'll change to this warm up program.
    Can that caculator be downloaded for free guys ?

  20. #19
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Definately, get the books that Zen recomended (SS and PP) and order them from AtLargeNutrition if you can. The sales help keep this forum running.

    You guys all look like you have a good start. Don't forget to keep reading, learning, and tracking your progress in a journal. Some day your newbie gains will dry up and you'll have to figure out what to do next
    _________
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    http://www.wannabebig.com/logo/alnlogo_white.gif

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  21. #20
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    3 warmup sets in 25% intervals or something similar. It will not make or break the routine if you are off by a bit.

    50lbs x5
    100lbs x5
    150lbs x5
    200lbs x 3x5
    Sarvamangalam!

  22. #21
    Senior Member thecoder0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    3 warmup sets in 25% intervals or something similar. It will not make or break the routine if you are off by a bit.

    50lbs x5
    100lbs x5
    150lbs x5
    200lbs x 3x5
    That makes sense, thanks

  23. #22
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    I have been training since April of this year. I didnt do anything close to weightlifting (didnt play sports) so i was new to everything. I started with Starting Strength which gave me great gains for three months. However, i got a bit carried away with bulking, which made me gain 20lbs in these three months which lead to some excess fat.

    I then switched to a cutting diet in which i lost 20lbs in three months. I had to adapt SS at one point because the weights were getting too much on a cut.

    After that i switched to 5/3/1, which i have been doing for a month now and it is great. Im on a slow bulk, which is working so much better. I slightly cycle carbs. All workout days are high carb, around 3500 calories. Most of the carbs are eaten in the morning, which is around my workout.
    On non-workout days, i take no carbs at the moment. Protein is kept high (close to 2g per lb of LBM) and fats are around 1g per lb of Bodyweight. This means im taking in around 2500 calories. Weekends are more free, where i am allowed to take in whatever macro nutrients i want, protein is still kept high. Calories are max 3000. This gives me an average of 3000 calories during the week which is around my maintenance. I have been gaining weight the last couple of weeks though, which was mostly due to Thanksgiving .

    The results as of yet are nothing impressive. I gained most of my muscle in my legs and back, which i am quite happy with. Its funny, but i can feel that there is a muscular body underneath my fat, instead of just more fat like it used to be.

    For supplements i use Protein powder, Creatine and Fish Oil. There are some other supps i would like to use but due to money and distance from the company (AtLarge) i have not been able to get these (Results, Opticen).

    The results so far are:
    (Start/Max lifted/Predicted 1RM 5/3/1
    Squat: 110lbs - 275lbs - 305lbs
    Bench: 65lbs - 155lbs - 175lbs
    Deadlift: 155lbs - 370lbs - 435lbs

    I have only maxed out on squat. Bench was five reps and deads was 3 reps. The predicted 1RM is calculated by a formula provided by Jim Wendler.

  24. #23
    Senior Member thecoder0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RvNijnatten View Post
    I have been training since April of this year. I didnt do anything close to weightlifting (didnt play sports) so i was new to everything. I started with Starting Strength which gave me great gains for three months. However, i got a bit carried away with bulking, which made me gain 20lbs in these three months which lead to some excess fat.

    I then switched to a cutting diet in which i lost 20lbs in three months. I had to adapt SS at one point because the weights were getting too much on a cut.

    After that i switched to 5/3/1, which i have been doing for a month now and it is great. Im on a slow bulk, which is working so much better. I slightly cycle carbs. All workout days are high carb, around 3500 calories. Most of the carbs are eaten in the morning, which is around my workout.
    On non-workout days, i take no carbs at the moment. Protein is kept high (close to 2g per lb of LBM) and fats are around 1g per lb of Bodyweight. This means im taking in around 2500 calories. Weekends are more free, where i am allowed to take in whatever macro nutrients i want, protein is still kept high. Calories are max 3000. This gives me an average of 3000 calories during the week which is around my maintenance. I have been gaining weight the last couple of weeks though, which was mostly due to Thanksgiving .

    The results as of yet are nothing impressive. I gained most of my muscle in my legs and back, which i am quite happy with. Its funny, but i can feel that there is a muscular body underneath my fat, instead of just more fat like it used to be.

    For supplements i use Protein powder, Creatine and Fish Oil. There are some other supps i would like to use but due to money and distance from the company (AtLarge) i have not been able to get these (Results, Opticen).

    The results so far are:
    (Start/Max lifted/Predicted 1RM 5/3/1
    Squat: 110lbs - 275lbs - 305lbs
    Bench: 65lbs - 155lbs - 175lbs
    Deadlift: 155lbs - 370lbs - 435lbs

    I have only maxed out on squat. Bench was five reps and deads was 3 reps. The predicted 1RM is calculated by a formula provided by Jim Wendler.
    Sounds like you are having some succsess well done....whats 5-3-1 by the way?

  25. #24
    LuNa
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecoder0 View Post
    Sounds like you are having some succsess well done....whats 5-3-1 by the way?
    5/3/1 is a training program designed by Jim Wendler. There are multiple members here using it, so if you want to get some first hand experience, go through the journal section.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RvNijnatten View Post
    5/3/1 is a training program designed by Jim Wendler. There are multiple members here using it, so if you want to get some first hand experience, go through the journal section.
    I'm using it and am making great gains... But keep in mind I had a pretty solid base in squat, bench, deadlift, and standing press before starting it.

    Run a linear program like starting strength for as long as you can before trying something like 531

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