Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 35

Thread: Westside Training: Most important concept you have gotten from training?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member icedutah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    64

    Westside Training: Most important concept you have gotten from training?

    There's one very important thing I have taken from Westside Barbell training. In regards to Max Effort training. Never do the same max effort (90% plus) exercise in back to back weeks. No more than 3 - 5 sets as well to avoid over training.

    Yet when I see peoples training programs and logs they constantly break this idea. I have first hand experience with this back in the day and doing back to back Max lifts. I could tell that I just stalled. Now I never break that "Westside Rule".

    Just one real life example is Brian Schwab's logs over on EliteFTS. If you look at his ME bench days all he ever does is puts on his DD shirt and does board presses. Not just him but many lifters and Elite lifters do this. I just sometimes have to say why!?

  2. #2
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Interesting question!

    I guess one of the more important concepts that I end up sharing a lot with people is the selection of max effort exercises. Most people see person X doing one ME lift and they figure they should just do it as well.

    You need to be smart in picking specific exercises that you are poor at. Too often people just pick a lift that they enjoy doing or are good at already and then wonder why they never progress. The reason is, is that they are never training their weaknesses.

    As far as Schwabby's log, I'll just say that what Brian does works exceptionally well for him. Bench is easily one of his best lifts. What you may be confusing is that Brian never really claims to train on a Westside routine. He just does what works for him, which happens to be shirted boards a lot. Don't be mistaken though, he's a crazy strong raw bencher.

    The other thing you have to remember is that a lot of these guys spent years and years building up to where they are now. Before now they developed a good base by rotating specific exercises in the right pattern and have developed a specific routine that works well for them and them alone.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  3. #3
    GFH Lones Green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    6,863
    Yeah, this is a very cool thread.

    I've learned a ton from Westside. When I read the title I immediately thought, "the conjugate method." Kind of goes along with what Travis said. Westside isn't exactly something you can put on paper, it looks different for everyone. The max effort movements and even assistance is geared toward weaknesses, so workouts vary a ton from person to person. It's quite hard to become stagnant on a program with so much change and evolution

    Plus things like being able to apply the program to athletes, or anyone, is pretty cool.
    23 years old
    6'3, 308 lbs

    825 Squat
    470 Bench
    645 Deadlift
    1905 total
    www.atlargenutrition.com

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    737
    Like Travis said, identification of weak points. You are only as strong as your weakest point in a given lift. If you bring up your weak areas, you will get stronger.

    The other thing I've learned is the importance of appropriate deloads. You can beat the **** out of yourself training with a Westside format. Back off a little bit from time to time and you will come back stronger.
    Finally ELITE @ SHW..

    Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
    Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.

    The next stop: PRO total.

    HOO's Gym: building the strongest gym in the South, one plate at a time.

  5. #5
    THE 800 QUEST NickAus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    7,650
    GOOD THREAD, for me I think the conjugate method is one of the main things that has helped.

    I also think training with bands made me stronger at a faster rate than if I had only used straight weight.

    The fact that Louie has people work really hard on the lats, upperback, triceps and hamstrings is also a big part of why it works so well IMO.
    Squat briefs only 625 @ 210
    Bench geared 525 @ 210
    Deadlift geared 650 @ 220

    Captains of Crush #3

    Building Mighty Mitts...

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,486
    I can only pick one?

    Doing a second barbell movement as my first accessory. I do this on ME lower, ME upper, and DE upper days. I try to get 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps. When I feel beat up, I just do 3x5 with the same weight. When I feel good, I try to push for a PR on the 3RM or 5RM. On DE lower, I alternate between this and speed pulls.
    www.wildirongym.com
    Become a fan of Wild Iron on Facebook:
    http://tinyurl.com/WildIron

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    200
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusWild View Post
    I can only pick one?

    Doing a second barbell movement as my first accessory. I do this on ME lower, ME upper, and DE upper days. I try to get 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps. When I feel beat up, I just do 3x5 with the same weight. When I feel good, I try to push for a PR on the 3RM or 5RM. On DE lower, I alternate between this and speed pulls.
    That is a great point. Travis always talks about making sure that you get your volume in when doing a Westside style program. This is a great way to do that.

  8. #8
    Da Bears slashkills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Joliet, IL
    Posts
    2,749
    the biggest thing for me is lots of volume at higher percentages on ME lifts

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    703
    Conjugate is by far the best method... Bands/chains ME,DE, really work well for me! WSB rules!

    - On a side note, I think Brain does a lot of bd. presses to limit his range of motion. He had a partial pec tear early in his lifting career and has since modified his full-range work.(I can relate )

  10. #10
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by robchris View Post
    - On a side note, I think Brain does a lot of bd. presses to limit his range of motion. He had a partial pec tear early in his lifting career and has since modified his full-range work.(I can relate )
    My brain does board presses too!

    Me thinks smarter makes it does me

    Brain board pressed do leave nasty goose bumps though and can cause dain bramage
    Last edited by Travis Bell; 12-14-2009 at 07:00 PM.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  11. #11
    GFH Lones Green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    6,863
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    My brain does board presses too!

    Me thinks smarter makes it does me

    Brain board pressed do leave nasty goose bumps though and can cause dain bramage
    LOL!!!
    23 years old
    6'3, 308 lbs

    825 Squat
    470 Bench
    645 Deadlift
    1905 total
    www.atlargenutrition.com

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    703
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    My brain does board presses too!

    Me thinks smarter makes it does me

    Brain board pressed do leave nasty goose bumps though and can cause dain bramage
    Who the he** is Tarvis Belk?

    Sorry for the typo's bro... And all this time I thought Vinnie was the teacher on this board! LMAO!!

  13. #13
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,677
    I'd sat conjugate variety and assistance work.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    453
    So lets say quads are my weakness in the squat, whats your top pick for assistance work I should be doing?

    To the original question, I'm loving the variation I get with westside, what I do also isn't nearly the same as anyone else. I'm having a lot of fun with it though. But I also noticed I had to change ME exercises every week cause If I repeated one it would always be less the next time.

  15. #15
    GFH Lones Green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    6,863
    Quote Originally Posted by SEOINAGE View Post
    So lets say quads are my weakness in the squat, whats your top pick for assistance work I should be doing?

    To the original question, I'm loving the variation I get with westside, what I do also isn't nearly the same as anyone else. I'm having a lot of fun with it though. But I also noticed I had to change ME exercises every week cause If I repeated one it would always be less the next time.
    Bulgarian split squats would be good, maybe some high rep leg press. Hack squats and leg extensions both can be tough on the knees.

    You want to keep the majority of the work on your posterior chain though, when you sit back and practice proper form, your posterior chain should be the key player to your squat
    Last edited by Lones Green; 12-14-2009 at 07:33 PM.
    23 years old
    6'3, 308 lbs

    825 Squat
    470 Bench
    645 Deadlift
    1905 total
    www.atlargenutrition.com

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    453
    Quote Originally Posted by lonesXedge View Post
    Bulgarian split squats would be good, maybe some high rep leg press. Hack squats and leg extensions both can be tough on the knees.

    You want to keep the majority of the work on your posterior chain though, when you sit back and practice proper form, your posterior chain should be the key player to your squat
    I'll try some of those, did some front squats after my speed banded box squat and a little deadlift. Reason I ask is I don't see a ton of emphasis on the quads which I understand, but I feel like my quads don't get any work since I have been powerlifting and squatting wide and sitting back properly, and i thought a little quad work would be good to keep my knees healthy by having htem strong enough when I do daily activities. maybe I'm being stupid.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    601
    well I lift with alot of EX siders and Id say Iv learned that you need to train heavy but know when to back off...and dont kill yourself of assistance **** all the time
    Last edited by douglasoh5; 12-14-2009 at 09:24 PM.

  18. #18
    Wannabebig Member poopoo333's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by icedutah View Post
    There's one very important thing I have taken from Westside Barbell training. In regards to Max Effort training. Never do the same max effort (90% plus) exercise in back to back weeks. No more than 3 - 5 sets as well to avoid over training.

    Yet when I see peoples training programs and logs they constantly break this idea. I have first hand experience with this back in the day and doing back to back Max lifts. I could tell that I just stalled. Now I never break that "Westside Rule".

    Just one real life example is Brian Schwab's logs over on EliteFTS. If you look at his ME bench days all he ever does is puts on his DD shirt and does board presses. Not just him but many lifters and Elite lifters do this. I just sometimes have to say why!?
    The thing you mention about back to back ME movements.. didn't know that was a "Westside Rule". I have been doing 2 week cycles, and always on the 2nd week I hit bigger numbers then I do on the first week.

  19. #19
    Wannabebig Member C-Sobrino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    San Juan
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by poopoo333 View Post
    The thing you mention about back to back ME movements.. didn't know that was a "Westside Rule". I have been doing 2 week cycles, and always on the 2nd week I hit bigger numbers then I do on the first week.
    I think it depends on the person and the emphasis. I know there's a conversation where Buddy Morris tells Dave Tate and Jim Wendler he has athletes use an exercise 3 weeks before changing. If you're getting progress, keep doing what you're doing... As far as I understand, if you picked the right ME exercise, then progress will mean progress on your competition lift.
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good." - 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "For me the most important thing is to beat myself, to lift the barbell that up to this point I have not yet lifted." - Alexeyev

  20. #20
    Wannabebig Member icedutah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    64
    Well it's not really an exact rule. But I have always seen changing ME movements each week as the recommended thing to do for an advanced lifter. Beginners generally will do better though sticking the same lift for 2-3 weeks then switching since they will not adapt as quickly as an advanced lifter.

    Now I am not sure how people determine what is advanced and what is a beginner. You gotta find out for yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by poopoo333 View Post
    The thing you mention about back to back ME movements.. didn't know that was a "Westside Rule". I have been doing 2 week cycles, and always on the 2nd week I hit bigger numbers then I do on the first week.

  21. #21
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    986
    I agree with what the other guys have said already, so I will just add a few things.

    You have to tweak the system to fit your needs. For example, I've found that a good ME bench rotation for me is week one full range raw, week two partial range raw, week three shirt work. That way I keep my raw strength up and get shirt technique done w/o burning myself out in the gear.

    Another thing I learned is to focus on lifting with maximum effort and not focusing on breaking a PR. Breaking a PR should be a bonus. You need to work up to a heavy/tough triple before you go to singles. That way you get more volume in. A lot of guys when they first start with conjugate training focus too much on breaking a max single and basically slack off on the sets leading up to the attempt of a PR. I got a lot stronger when I focused on going to a balls out triple and then if I still felt good going to some singles. If I feel like crap after that triple then I've strained enough that day.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Ks
    Posts
    1,262
    For the guys that have done WS for at least a couple years and drug free, how often do you hit prs on your raw bench lifts. Sometimes i wonder if doing low reps for years if i need to do something else I know it mush work for a lot of guys or they woudnt do it.
    Last edited by Darracq; 12-15-2009 at 09:17 AM.

  23. #23
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    986
    Quote Originally Posted by Darracq View Post
    For the guys that have done WS for at least a couple years and drug free, how often do you hit prs on your raw bench lifts. Sometimes i wonder if doing low reps for years if i need to do something else I know it mush work for a lot of guys or they woudnt do it.
    Sometimes I hit a PR and sometimes I don't. I don't usually do the same raw lifts in a rotation of 3 or 4 exercises like some people do. I use more variety, so I might not do the same exercise for 2 or 3 months. For example, I may have floor press in the rotation, but I'll vary it with bands/chains/straight weight etc.

    I personally don't believe that using drugs or not matters. You just need to control your volume and deload properly. I do not use and have trained WSB methods for the last two years with no problems.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Ks
    Posts
    1,262
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamBAG View Post
    Sometimes I hit a PR and sometimes I don't. I don't usually do the same raw lifts in a rotation of 3 or 4 exercises like some people do. I use more variety, so I might not do the same exercise for 2 or 3 months. For example, I may have floor press in the rotation, but I'll vary it with bands/chains/straight weight etc.

    I personally don't believe that using drugs or not matters. You just need to control your volume and deload properly. I do not use and have trained WSB methods for the last two years with no problems.


    I dont compete i just want to get as strong as i can raw, so that might make a difference not sure. I seem to do better if i hit prs i know things are working i think i would go nuts not doing the same lifts for months lol. MY gains are at a snails pace so i dont expect to hit a lot of prs though.
    Do you think a 3 lift rotation is to small and then a deload week.

  25. #25
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by Darracq View Post
    For the guys that have done WS for at least a couple years and drug free, how often do you hit prs on your raw bench lifts. Sometimes i wonder if doing low reps for years if i need to do something else I know it mush work for a lot of guys or they woudnt do it.
    I haven't missed a PR in the gym for several years now


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

Similar Threads

  1. Doggcrapp training
    By BigMatt in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 117
    Last Post: 04-01-2010, 08:12 PM
  2. Training & Diet - Interesting Read
    By Vita in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 11-29-2005, 12:55 AM
  3. 15 year old..any tips?
    By Juggalo in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-17-2004, 04:43 PM
  4. Article On Muscle Growth.. Total Bullshit?
    By MonStar1023 in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 12-10-2001, 11:12 AM
  5. The Real Deal
    By chris mason in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 04-17-2001, 02:49 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •