The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #51
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    Well I'm not issuing a blanket condemnation of high reps. Like I said, the 20 rep squat can promote gains (assuming as always the other factors are in place). But the law of diminishing returns sets in. I don't see much point in doing 50, or 75 or 100 reps per set if your goals are size and strength (which is a reasonable assumption on a bodybuilding board). I suppose if one believes in "shocking" the muscles or wants to try something new, or is an extremely advanced trainee...then have at it.

    The main problem that I see most trainees having a problem with this type of training is with form, provided they are training with any intensity. Particularly toward the end of such an extended set as fatigue sets in both form and intensity are likely to suffer, unless they are both quite advanced and well disciplined and even then it could be a problem. And if the trainee does more than one set then the chances of form and intensity degrading increase exponentially. And leads to injury and stagnation respectively.

    As for gains, I see that type of training promoting endurance more so than size and definitely more so than strength.

    Also legs are already used for high reps. We walk around on them all day. Why not hit them with something they are unaccustomed to?

    And finally the simplest and easiest way to measure progression is by being able to increase the weight on the bar. Broadly speaking to get more reps one has to decrease the weight on the bar...in other words go backwards.

    Once again certain points I've made do not necessarily apply to highly advanced lifters like yourself or Mr. Acress or several other people here. But many if not most people are not that advanced and therefore it remains a reasonable assumption that they should practise and benefit from simpler training techniques before trying slightly more esoteric routines.
    I think the problem is you are basing your thoughts on erroneous ideas you have learned and your opinions.

    For example, the stress on the muscles of your hips and legs from walking is TOTALLY different than training with loads that allow for 20 reps. There is no comparison, and yet you made one stating the somehow walking made your legs accustomed to high reps?

    In terms of hypertrophy, there is a definite correlation between pumping types of exercises (those which give you a pump and result in a heavy buildup of lactic acid) and growth. A solid 20 rep set of squats will definitely pump your thighs. In a nutshell, 20 rep sets for legs are good for growth both in beginner and advanced trainees.


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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    I think the problem is you are basing your thoughts on erroneous ideas you have learned and your opinions.

    For example, the stress on the muscles of your hips and legs from walking is TOTALLY different than training with loads that allow for 20 reps. There is no comparison, and yet you made one stating the somehow walking made your legs accustomed to high reps?

    In terms of hypertrophy, there is a definite correlation between pumping types of exercises (those which give you a pump and result in a heavy buildup of lactic acid) and growth. A solid 20 rep set of squats will definitely pump your thighs. In a nutshell, 20 rep sets for legs are good for growth both in beginner and advanced trainees.
    You state "the stress on the muscle of your hips and legs from walking is TOTALLY different than training with loads that allow for 20 reps. There is no comparison.."

    And I agree with you.

    You also say "In a nutshell, 20 rep sets for legs are good for growth both in beginner and advanced trainees"

    And I agree again. Like I said in my above post that you quoted they are good for growth.

    . When I am talking about "high reps" I am talking about 50-100 reps and done with bodyweight to boot (see post #14). I do not feel THAT has any advantages in terms of gaining size and strength over say a set of 20 reps.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    Yo
    . When I am talking about "high reps" I am talking about 50-100 reps and done with bodyweight to boot (see post #14). I do not feel THAT has any advantages in terms of gaining size and strength over say a set of 20 reps.
    If it is placed properly within a protocol it definitley has its advatages. You are thinking in to much black and white when there are an array of things that can be used. Understanding program design is much harder than people realize. No one said 50-100 reps was good for limit strength, this thread is geared toward hypertrophy and hence why it can be used and I have I have used it personally and with many clients with great results, as far as increasing work capacity and growth.

    There are many applications out there and the context of the program is more important than the content. A collection of exercises doesn't make a program.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acress View Post
    If it is placed properly within a protocol it definitley has its advatages. You are thinking in to much black and white when there are an array of things that can be used. Understanding program design is much harder than people realize. No one said 50-100 reps was good for limit strength, this thread is geared toward hypertrophy and hence why it can be used and I have I have used it personally and with many clients with great results, as far as increasing work capacity and growth.

    There are many applications out there and the context of the program is more important than the content. A collection of exercises doesn't make a program.

    Well this will be my last post in this thread because it seems that we are just going around in circles. I agree with much of what you posted, however just to clarify one point:

    I didn't say a 100 rep squat set of bodyweight didn't have advantages. I do however fail to see it having any advantages over a properly performed 20 set squat routine (assuming of course that the subject in question is healthy and able to perform either.) For rehabilitation or extremely weak people it may indeed have advantages but that's kind of outside the scope of this thread.

    In conclusion. Both high and low reps can work. I just find it doubtful (and counter to all my experience and that of others) that ultra-high reps done with a very low weight, stimulate the legs more than a lower volume of reps done with a higher weight. If however someone can point me to a solid scientific study that definitely says otherwise, I will be more than willing to concede the point.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 12-28-2009 at 07:10 PM.

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