The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    It is simply not parallel. You have another 3-5 inches to go for parallel.

    You need to work on your overall body flexibility. Foam roll and stretch twice daily, drink lots of water and drop the weight on your squats and do them correctly.

    The rounding is hard to tell, but I think I see it happening... take a better video with no safety bars blocking the view.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 02-04-2010 at 09:27 AM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  2. #27
    Senior Member charles_316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    It is simply not parallel. You have another 3-5 inches to go for parallel.

    You need to work on your overall body flexibility. Foam roll and stretch twice daily, drink lots of water and drop the weight on your squats and do them correctly.

    The rounding is hard to tell, but I think I see it happening... take a better video with no safety bars blocking the view.
    "It is simply not parallel" doesn't explain anything. If I go 3-5 inches lower, I will be PAST parallel.

    If my legs and thigh make a 90 degree angle (as shown), then I must be parallel to the floor since my feet are on the floor.

    My legs are perpendicular to the thigh and floor. Hence, my thighs and floor must be parallel.

    I am not getting angry or anything and I appreciate the advice. I am simply trying to clarify your points since I reviewed the video and drew the lines to check if its parallel or not.

    On a side note, how is my form for the deads?
    Last edited by charles_316; 02-04-2010 at 09:35 AM.
    Age: 25
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: 175lbs
    Body Fat around 12%
    Biceps: 14.5"
    Chest: 38"

    Bench Press: 225 x 10 reps and 275 pounds x 1 rep
    Deadlift: 405 pounds x 1 rep
    Squat: 335 pounds x 3 reps

  3. #28
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Parallel is measures with the top of the thigh.

    But, if you are training for general strength, you should be maximizing your depth, that is, going as low as your body lets you. So, unless you are planning on competing in PL then parallel is an arbitrary place to stop your ROM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  4. #29
    Senior Member charles_316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    Parallel is measures with the top of the thigh.

    But, if you are training for general strength, you should be maximizing your depth, that is, going as low as your body lets you. So, unless you are planning on competing in PL then parallel is an arbitrary place to stop your ROM.
    That is what I wanted to hear - your last post was much more informative than the others.

    If you are saying it measures with the top of my thigh, then yes I agree I can go a couple inches lower.

    But according to your theory above, I should go down near the floor (like the olympic lifters), if was able to (which I definitely cannot and will not lol).

    I like the depth I am currently at but I don't mind lowering a couple inches if it helps.
    Age: 25
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: 175lbs
    Body Fat around 12%
    Biceps: 14.5"
    Chest: 38"

    Bench Press: 225 x 10 reps and 275 pounds x 1 rep
    Deadlift: 405 pounds x 1 rep
    Squat: 335 pounds x 3 reps

  5. #30
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    It's hard to tell exactly how deep you are because of your dark shorts. I would say you might be right at parallel or just slightly above. I would try and drop them 1-2" more. Your back isn't rounding horrendously on the squats, you you can tell it "gives" a little bit when you are coming up. You can also tell based on the relative position of your hips and back. Work on holding your arch tighter and pushing your knees out in the hole to get depth without rounding.
    Deadlifts look OK, but you could arch a little better. It looks like you have room to squeeze your chest up a little more when you get set up.

  6. #31
    Senior Member charles_316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean S View Post
    It's hard to tell exactly how deep you are because of your dark shorts. I would say you might be right at parallel or just slightly above. I would try and drop them 1-2" more. Your back isn't rounding horrendously on the squats, you you can tell it "gives" a little bit when you are coming up. You can also tell based on the relative position of your hips and back. Work on holding your arch tighter and pushing your knees out in the hole to get depth without rounding.
    Deadlifts look OK, but you could arch a little better. It looks like you have room to squeeze your chest up a little more when you get set up.
    Thanks for the post. Yes, from my conversation with ZenMonkey, I think we all agree I can probably drop another inch or two.

    You are correct that I could definitely feel my back "giving" a bit on the way up for the last couple reps on 315lbs (as i said before, 315lbs x 3 or 4 reps is near my MAX effort so I expected this)

    As for DLs, I will continue to try and hold my arch better. My back feels amazing after fixing it up from responses here to keep chin up, etc...
    Age: 25
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: 175lbs
    Body Fat around 12%
    Biceps: 14.5"
    Chest: 38"

    Bench Press: 225 x 10 reps and 275 pounds x 1 rep
    Deadlift: 405 pounds x 1 rep
    Squat: 335 pounds x 3 reps

  7. #32
    student of the game Runty's Avatar
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    Like Sean said, keep your back/core more rigid and tighter. There is a bit of rounding on both the heavy squats and DLs. I would follow what Zen said and lower the weights and work on form and flexibility. Try to get just a bit lower in the hole. Also with the DL it seems like you are losing the tightness after the first rep or two on the higher rep sets. Try to recapture your air and body pressure before pulling each rep again. Also, make sure you break at the hip first when lowering the weight and only break at the knee once the weight is below it. The down motion should mimic the up motion but in reverse. You don't want to be dragging the bar down over the kneecap every rep like you are.
    Last edited by Runty; 02-04-2010 at 09:58 AM.
    "Fine, if I'm not allowed to light it on fire, can my imaginary friend?"

  8. #33
    Senior Member charles_316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runty View Post
    Like Sean said, keep your back/core more rigid and tighter. There is a bit of rounding on both the heavy squats and DLs. I would follow what Zen said and lower the weights and work on form and flexibility. Also with the DL, make sure you break at the hip first when lowering the weight and only break at the knee once the weight is below it. The down motion should mimic the up motion but in reverse. You don't want to be dragging the bar down over the kneecap every rep like you are.
    Good point for lowering the weights. I think this is often overlooked for the actual pull.

    The reasoning for me to post these heavy sets is because I find my form gives during these "max efforts". The initial reason for posting this was because my lower back felt unusual pain (felt kinda spinal instead of muscle soreness) after attempting new PRs on DLs which is what motivated me to post my videos and get my form checked out.

    I have been lifting for years (6-8 yrs? i don't even know lol.... obviously, people can lift for years and STILL have flaws.. and there is always room for improvement and more to learn!) and I believe my form during lighter sets is pretty good for the most part. I used to work out at various gyms and have gotten my form checked by advanced lifters including personal trainers. Like many, I have been on and off over the years so it's always good to refresh things!

    But the important point is that I started this to check my form on heavy sets because I feel it giving then. The videos I posted are right at my absolute MAX lifts

    Question about lowering the weights: doesn't the bar always roll over the kneecap on the way down? I know it should scrap your thighs and shins... shouldn't it then roll over the knee?
    Last edited by charles_316; 02-04-2010 at 10:03 AM.
    Age: 25
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: 175lbs
    Body Fat around 12%
    Biceps: 14.5"
    Chest: 38"

    Bench Press: 225 x 10 reps and 275 pounds x 1 rep
    Deadlift: 405 pounds x 1 rep
    Squat: 335 pounds x 3 reps

  9. #34
    Senior Member Jorge Sanchez's Avatar
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    A few major fixes for your squat:

    1) Tightness
    2) Push your knees out/rotate your hips out
    3) Shoes
    4) Depth

    Looking strong overall. Work on your form issues and you'll be even stronger.
    quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur

  10. #35
    student of the game Runty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charles_316 View Post
    Question about lowering the weights: doesn't the bar always roll over the kneecap on the way down? I know it should scrap your thighs and shins... shouldn't it then roll over the knee?
    You don't have to keep the bar completely against your leg the whole way down. Usually keeping it on the thigh till your past your knee is enough, and this usually means your quad sticks just a tad further out forward so you can clear the kneecap without impact. Then once you start bending the knee, the knee/shin will travel forward again just over the bar.
    Last edited by Runty; 02-04-2010 at 10:23 AM.
    "Fine, if I'm not allowed to light it on fire, can my imaginary friend?"

  11. #36
    Senior Member charles_316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runty View Post
    You don't have to keep the bar completely against your leg the whole way down. Usually keeping it on the thigh till your past your knee is enough, then once you start bending the knee, the knee/shin will travel just over the bar.
    I love it. My shins will be thanking you :P... and yeah, I find I am able to bring the weight down without having to scrap the leg the entire way down. I will bring it down my thigh and then just clear of my knee and shins.
    Age: 25
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: 175lbs
    Body Fat around 12%
    Biceps: 14.5"
    Chest: 38"

    Bench Press: 225 x 10 reps and 275 pounds x 1 rep
    Deadlift: 405 pounds x 1 rep
    Squat: 335 pounds x 3 reps

  12. #37
    Senior Member charles_316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge Sanchez View Post
    A few major fixes for your squat:

    1) Tightness
    2) Push your knees out/rotate your hips out
    3) Shoes
    4) Depth

    Looking strong overall. Work on your form issues and you'll be even stronger.
    That's exactly what I'm aiming for in this post - to address any form issues to get stronger .

    A couple questions:

    1) Any recommendations for best ways to maintain tightness? I exhale on the way up.. I've been told not to hold breath

    2) What do you mean by rotating the hips out? I'm not sure what this means. And the knees going out also... the knees should stay in line with your feet, right?

    3) Will the shoes make a difference on my carpeted floor? As you may notice, I don't have any mats in my basement. Mats are damnn expensive. Regular shoes vs socks only?
    Age: 25
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: 175lbs
    Body Fat around 12%
    Biceps: 14.5"
    Chest: 38"

    Bench Press: 225 x 10 reps and 275 pounds x 1 rep
    Deadlift: 405 pounds x 1 rep
    Squat: 335 pounds x 3 reps

  13. #38
    Senior Member Jorge Sanchez's Avatar
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    1) Hold your breath throughout. If you need to breathe, do it at the top of the lift. Get really tight when you set up - before you've unracked the bar your shoulders should be pulled back, your chest should be high and you should have a tight arch in your back in your lower back. Maintain that throughout the lift.

    2) Just focus on pushing your knees out to the side hard. Don't worry about keeping them in line with your toes - it will happen automatically if you push your knees out. This will also help with depth.

    3) Socks are better than running shoes. A mat would be better than a carpet.
    quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur

  14. #39
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charles_316 View Post
    That is what I wanted to hear - your last post was much more informative than the others.

    But according to your theory above, I should go down near the floor (like the olympic lifters), if was able to (which I definitely cannot and will not lol).
    That may have been what you wanted to hear but be aware that everything found in this thread can also be found using the search function.


    There is a difference between Olympic Back squats and Conventional back squats. So, no, that is not what I was saying nor was it my theory. Going ATG on a conventional back squat will only make you stronger than almost going to full depth, so, choosing depth is your prerogative. But, cp, the man who goes deeper will be stronger.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 02-04-2010 at 12:42 PM.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    Thats not parallel.
    And you round in what looks like all of your squats.

    I do not mean to be the bearer of bad news, but what I see is what I see. If you want advice then take what is given to you. Like I said in my aforementioned post, drop the weight and work on your form and flexibility.
    I disagree...While its not ATG its definitely parallel. However, slight back rounding is evident but not extreme. Work on keeping the back tight and dont even think about depth. Go as low as you can go without rounding and work from there...if you have to round to go lower, then its not worth it. I am guilty of this as well and something I need to work on. Its caused by tight hips/hamstrings.

    The deadlifts, however, need some work. You have rounding during virtually the entire pull. You need to get your hips lower and your back TIGHT and straight before you begin the pull. If you dont see what I am talking about, notice how you put the bar back down to the ground...see how you are bending at the back first and not your hips/knees? This is putting a ton of stress on your back. Im surprised you can pull as much as you can like this...I can see you adding 30 pounds+ from form alone on your DL.
    Last edited by mchicia1; 02-04-2010 at 12:57 PM.

  16. #41
    Senior Member charles_316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mchicia1 View Post
    I disagree...While its not ATG its definitely parallel. However, slight back rounding is evident but not extreme. Work on keeping the back tight and dont even think about depth. Go as low as you can go without rounding and work from there...if you have to round to go lower, then its not worth it. I am guilty of this as well and something I need to work on. Its caused by tight hips/hamstrings.

    The deadlifts, however, need some work. You have rounding during virtually the entire pull. You need to get your hips lower and your back TIGHT and straight before you begin the pull. If you dont see what I am talking about, notice how you put the bar back down to the ground...see how you are bending at the back first and not your hips/knees? This is putting a ton of stress on your back. Im surprised you can pull as much as you can like this...I can see you adding 30 pounds+ from form alone on your DL.
    Should my back by tight and straight during the entire pull AND when putting the weight back down? Obviously, your back must bend somewhat when going down.

    If this is the case, I assume I should initiate dropping the weights by bending the knees in combination with lowering the hips instead of bending the back.
    Last edited by charles_316; 02-04-2010 at 04:53 PM.
    Age: 25
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: 175lbs
    Body Fat around 12%
    Biceps: 14.5"
    Chest: 38"

    Bench Press: 225 x 10 reps and 275 pounds x 1 rep
    Deadlift: 405 pounds x 1 rep
    Squat: 335 pounds x 3 reps

  17. #42
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    Push your hips back and keep your back arched on the way down. You don't have to bend the spine to set the weight down. The hips and knees should be bend in lowering the bar, not the back.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by charles_316 View Post
    Should my back by tight and straight during the entire pull AND when putting the weight back down? Obviously, your back must bend somewhat when going down.

    If this is the case, I assume I should initiate dropping the weights by bending the knees in combination with lowering the hips instead of bending the back.
    No, your back should never bend...only part that can bend safely is the upper portion of your back...never the lower. If you keep the bar close to you and think hips instead of back you should be able to keep it straight. As for Tightness, I stay tight the entire pull then exhale when im at the top...then I take another deep breathe and hold it on the way down.

  19. #44
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    If you have to snap a picture at the extreme bottom and draw 90 degree angles on it just to see if you barely made parallel, it's high.

  20. #45
    Senior Member charles_316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kastro View Post
    If you have to snap a picture at the extreme bottom and draw 90 degree angles on it just to see if you barely made parallel, it's high.
    lol.. that's the definition of parallel.. there's no such thing as "barely" parallel.. you are either parallel OR you are not... and i took the snapshot to show ZenMonkey.. thanks for the input tho
    Age: 25
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: 175lbs
    Body Fat around 12%
    Biceps: 14.5"
    Chest: 38"

    Bench Press: 225 x 10 reps and 275 pounds x 1 rep
    Deadlift: 405 pounds x 1 rep
    Squat: 335 pounds x 3 reps

  21. #46
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    The confusion here has occurred due to you going slightly below parallel on the first sets but above parallel on your heaviest squat set. Parallel is defined by the crease of the hip being parallel with the knee. You are about an inch over on your last set.

    On the deadlifts, I notices the back had slight bend but I am no guru. I have issues with the deadlift myself.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kastro View Post
    If you have to snap a picture at the extreme bottom and draw 90 degree angles on it just to see if you barely made parallel, it's high.
    What? If you are 1 milimeter away from NOT being parallel, that is still parallel.

  23. #48
    Senior Member charles_316's Avatar
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    I tried keeping my back 45 degree angle and arched while deadlifting yesterday and it felt very awkward... as if I was squatting the weight instead of pulling it... 225 lbs felt very heavy and I think it's because I'm still not getting proper form...

    I've been told some people deadlift the same way as I did in that video where they use legs first and then back at the end.... But I do think I have to arch my back more even though it is extremely awkward (I should probably video it next time to check since it feels so weird.... as if my hips and hands cannot get that low if my shoulders are that high)

    I've been reading a lot on DL and there have been many different opinions on DL form.. here was a good article I found on here:

    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...light=deadlift
    Age: 25
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: 175lbs
    Body Fat around 12%
    Biceps: 14.5"
    Chest: 38"

    Bench Press: 225 x 10 reps and 275 pounds x 1 rep
    Deadlift: 405 pounds x 1 rep
    Squat: 335 pounds x 3 reps

  24. #49
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Watch videos by Mark Rippetoe on youtube. He goes into much detail.
    Sarvamangalam!

  25. #50
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Just some suggestions...

    Depth
    Video


    Breathing & Set-Up
    Video
    Last edited by Sensei; 02-10-2010 at 08:16 PM.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

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