Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Repetition Effort

  1. #1
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,715

    Repetition Effort

    I train

    Mon:ME Upper
    Tue: DE Lower
    Thur:RE Upper
    Fri: ME Lower

    Everything has been going fine but as of lately the RE day just burns me out, even with lower volume. I really like the gains in strength and size I've seen from my RE day but I want to start cycling it with another DE day.

    Has anyone ever rotated RE and DE days for upper body on a monthly basis? I was thinking rotating them every 4 weeks. Hypertrophy is a definite part of my goals.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by ThomasG; 02-14-2010 at 02:27 PM.
    My Journal
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
    23 Years old
    5'10 198'er
    Squat-565(wraps) 560(Raw)
    Bench:365(raw)
    Deadlift:555(raw)
    Front Squat-465x1 (wraps) 405x2 (raw)
    AtLarge Nutrition Optimize your body and Support WBB

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Vegas
    Posts
    1,625
    I have seen people rotate them weekly with good results. It really depends on your goal though. I know Defranco has done this and I am pretty sure I saw Wendler recommend this when he was asked a similar question.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,486
    I'd rotate them more often. From what I've read about speed work, once you are fast you only need to do it every 2-3 weeks to maintain your speed. If you go without speed work for 4 weeks, then you will lose speed. You can just switch every other week.
    www.wildirongym.com
    Become a fan of Wild Iron on Facebook:
    http://tinyurl.com/WildIron

  4. #4
    Da Bears slashkills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Joliet, IL
    Posts
    2,749
    I'd recommend DE for two weeks and then RE day for two weeks. How does your assistance work look? are you getting a lot of volume?

  5. #5
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    986
    I do two weeks of speed bench followed by a week of rep work. I usually work to a 5RM or maybe the heaviest weight I can do for three sets of 5.

    I use bands and chains on the speed work always. The rep week is always done with straight weight.

    So far I've gotten my raw and equipped bench up this way and managed to feel fairly good as I don't beat myself up too much with constant speed work.

    You can also do the rep week with dumbbells only, floor press etc.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  6. #6
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    I stick with DE work year round. Hypertrophy can be achieved through your assistance work.

    Your ME day should be low volume, high intensity (weights)

    Conversely your DE day needs to be high volume, low intensity (weights)

    Instead you're getting two low volume days the way you have things set up with a high and medim high intensities. Seems to me to be a quick way to overtrain.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  7. #7
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,715
    So when is RE appropriate travis?
    My Journal
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
    23 Years old
    5'10 198'er
    Squat-565(wraps) 560(Raw)
    Bench:365(raw)
    Deadlift:555(raw)
    Front Squat-465x1 (wraps) 405x2 (raw)
    AtLarge Nutrition Optimize your body and Support WBB

  8. #8
    THE 800 QUEST NickAus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    7,650
    You can do RE with your assistance work each training day.
    Squat briefs only 625 @ 210
    Bench geared 525 @ 210
    Deadlift geared 650 @ 220

    Captains of Crush #3

    Building Mighty Mitts...

  9. #9
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasG View Post
    So when is RE appropriate travis?
    At Westside we never use the RE for bench

    Repetition method is not just doing reps, it's several sets of doubles or triples well into the 85-90% range. Least thats the way we define it lol.

    So no, using the RE method (by our definition mind you) would not be productive for accessory work.

    It is very rarely used for squatting, but that is the lift that it's most used for.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  10. #10
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,715
    Here's the RE Template I use.

    8-25 rep range.



    http://www.elitefts.com/ws4sb/WS4SB.pdf
    My Journal
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
    23 Years old
    5'10 198'er
    Squat-565(wraps) 560(Raw)
    Bench:365(raw)
    Deadlift:555(raw)
    Front Squat-465x1 (wraps) 405x2 (raw)
    AtLarge Nutrition Optimize your body and Support WBB

  11. #11
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasG View Post
    Here's the RE Template I use.

    8-25 rep range.



    http://www.elitefts.com/ws4sb/WS4SB.pdf
    That would be one of the very few things about Defranco's program that I don't agree with (OH NO!! Did he really go there????) haha

    I totally understand why Joe sets it up like that, but you can still accomplish all of that after you do speed upper. Reps will not teach athletes to fire quicker. They teach the muscles to repeat the same effort over and over at the same speed. So for my athletes, DE upper is a must. The rest though is hypertrophy work after so they are able to progress at the same rate. Athletes I'm referring to here are usually younger (14-17) and smaller.

    The point of it is to add size and strength on to kids/athletes who need it. What's the point for someone who is already big and has a solid strength base? Those guys need to focus on the speed and use the ME day to achieve their strength.

    Most people who say that ME day doesn't work, aren't correlating their DE and ME days together properly.

    *Just to summarize, I'm not questioning Joe's program. I just disagree on the issue of DE bench and also feel that often people misapply the intention of his program.
    Last edited by Travis Bell; 02-18-2010 at 09:02 AM.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  12. #12
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,715
    Well today was my first DE Upper day

    120+double looped orangesx3x8 Kept the speed around 3seconds.

    I never knew speed bench was a stabilization workout till I did it today. Makes sense though.

    DB Bench
    70x10-Pause reps
    70x9-Pause reps

    Tricep Rope Extensions
    x15x2

    Seated Rows
    1x8
    1x12

    Hows that look?

    I'm missing some lat work but my shoulders didn't wan't any vertical pulling or pushing today. I never have shoulder probs either I dunno why this week.
    My Journal
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
    23 Years old
    5'10 198'er
    Squat-565(wraps) 560(Raw)
    Bench:365(raw)
    Deadlift:555(raw)
    Front Squat-465x1 (wraps) 405x2 (raw)
    AtLarge Nutrition Optimize your body and Support WBB

  13. #13
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Palmyra, PA
    Posts
    5,730
    Did you vary your grips? Probably should have more tricep and back work too, right Travis? Travis obviously knows this stuff much more than I do and has answered a few questions for me, so I defer to him.

  14. #14
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    To be honest, not high enough volume. You need at least one more tricep movement and two more back movements and then some rear delt work.

    DE day needs to be high volume and low intensity (weights used) and ME day needs to be low volume and high intensity. So you need to get more overall volume in.

    Make sure you're stretching and warming up properly before taking off into your speed bench. Speed bench can be abusive if you don't warm up properly, I probably should have included that earlier. My mistake.

    Take a look in my log though at my DE workouts and you'll get a better feel for what I'm talking about


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  15. #15
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,715
    Yea its definitely low volume I purposely did that cause I want to get back on track and not feel burnt out. Session felt real good today should be back to normal next week. O yea good point on the Rear delt work I usually do Reverse flies or Rear lateral raises.


    As far as warming up I do light cardio for 10 mins, dislocates with bands, upper body jumping jacks and work my way into my working sets.
    My Journal
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
    23 Years old
    5'10 198'er
    Squat-565(wraps) 560(Raw)
    Bench:365(raw)
    Deadlift:555(raw)
    Front Squat-465x1 (wraps) 405x2 (raw)
    AtLarge Nutrition Optimize your body and Support WBB

  16. #16
    Wannabebig Member achilles89's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    58
    If one is having form issues that are exhibited on ME day (90%+ 1RM), then would DE work (50-60% 1RM) fix these problems? It is likely that some sort of sub-maximal effort or RE work would be required. 8-25 reps does not sound like RE work, people have different definintions LOL.

    If we are to talk in terms of reps wouldn't RE work be from 4reps all the way to 8 reps since on ME work you are working to a 1-3RM?

  17. #17
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    986
    I don't think there is really any need to get caught up on what a certain rep scheme is called. If you think that you need to do submaximal reps then do them. If they work keep them. If they don't work don't keep them.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  18. #18
    Wannabebig Member achilles89's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamBAG View Post
    I don't think there is really any need to get caught up on what a certain rep scheme is called. If you think that you need to do submaximal reps then do them. If they work keep them. If they don't work don't keep them.
    Nobody is getting caught up on what a certain rep range is called. If you are using 90%+ on your Max day and 50% on your speed day, have you addressed the 50%-90% range?

    Using Vladimir Zatsiorsky (PhD a strength scientist and professor at Penn State University in University Park, Pa.) definition :-

    Repetitive Effort boils down to lactic-acid tolerance training and focuses on training muscles to produce force in a fatigued state. To circumvent sloppy form, it’s important that you stop at a point just short of complete muscle failure.
    Repetitive Effort
    2–5 sets 6–12 reps 70–85% 1RM

  19. #19
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Palmyra, PA
    Posts
    5,730
    So do you want someone to confirm what you have already decided to do? I am confused.

  20. #20
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    986
    Quote Originally Posted by achilles89 View Post
    Nobody is getting caught up on what a certain rep range is called. If you are using 90%+ on your Max day and 50% on your speed day, have you addressed the 50%-90% range?

    Using Vladimir Zatsiorsky (PhD a strength scientist and professor at Penn State University in University Park, Pa.) definition :-

    Repetitive Effort boils down to lactic-acid tolerance training and focuses on training muscles to produce force in a fatigued state. To circumvent sloppy form, it’s important that you stop at a point just short of complete muscle failure.
    Repetitive Effort
    2–5 sets 6–12 reps 70–85% 1RM
    Ha! Nobody is getting caught up on definitions and then you quote me a "definition." That's good stuff there.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  21. #21
    Wannabebig Member achilles89's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamBAG View Post
    Ha! Nobody is getting caught up on definitions and then you quote me a "definition." That's good stuff there.
    It would be brill if you addressed the other issue raised .

  22. #22
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,920
    Quote Originally Posted by achilles89 View Post
    It would be brill if you addressed the other issue raised .
    Call it whatever you want man. Nobody cares.

    There is no issue here. You're looking to define what the 50-90% range is. You're free to term it whatever you like.

    Zatsiorsky defines it as 2-5 sets of 6-12 reps with 70-85%. Someone else may term it something else. Why do you need to have a definition for it? Just call them what they are. Reps.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

Similar Threads

  1. What is the best way to do repetition work?
    By OneLiftOneKill in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-16-2008, 11:34 AM
  2. Repetition Bench press
    By Tumbler in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-12-2008, 12:40 AM
  3. Repetition Ranges
    By d'Anconia in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 02-28-2006, 08:46 PM
  4. High-repetition leg training and HIT
    By medevac in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-12-2003, 12:53 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •