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Thread: 3x5 to 5x5

  1. #1
    Time to get BIG aj24's Avatar
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    3x5 to 5x5

    Would it be ok if i moved from a 3x5 to a 5x5, I was on starting strength. Now I want more volume for a small cut
    Age: 16
    Height: 5'11.5"
    Weight: 170 pounds, 3:30 p.m. on 4/13/10

  2. #2
    Get Some! KoSh's Avatar
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    More volume, when lifting heavy, is going to beat you down pretty quick while in caloric deficit.

    If your numbers are right you're 5'11" 165 lbs. You don't need a cut, bro... At least in my opinion.
    Last edited by KoSh; 03-23-2010 at 09:53 AM.
    "Donít fall for the crap that people are peddling on message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your **** in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesnít matter. Start doing and believing in the stuff that works, and do it today and forever. You want science and studies? **** you. Iíve got scars and blood and vomit."
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  3. #3
    Time to get BIG aj24's Avatar
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    im at 170 pounds now, not really a cut
    Age: 16
    Height: 5'11.5"
    Weight: 170 pounds, 3:30 p.m. on 4/13/10

  4. #4
    Senior Member Raleighwood's Avatar
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    Cutting is more a function of diet rather than upping training volume.

    From what I read, most people recommend upping/maintaining intensity while decreasing volume when on a calorie deficit. As said before, upping your volume and decreasing your calories is going to take a lot out of you (not to mention muscle).

    5'11'' and 170 is still pretty light. Instead of cutting, I would focus on eating cleaner and maybe start carb rotating.
    Last edited by Raleighwood; 03-23-2010 at 10:11 AM.
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    Read up on the Texas Method. There's a sticky on the forum with a lot of really good info on it. That should put you in the right direction
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by aj24 View Post
    im at 170 pounds now, not really a cut
    Which means you should still be trying get bigger if you want to get stronger. If you want to get big and strong, stopping or trying to cut at 170 probably isn't the way to go.
    If you have some goal other than that, do whatever you feel you need to. I wouldn't crank the volume way up, especially if you are using primarily big lifts, if you are trying to cut.

  7. #7
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    When cutting, less volume is better than more. Stick to the program until it stops working for you.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 03-23-2010 at 11:11 AM.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member tdotteg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aj24 View Post
    im at 170 pounds now, not really a cut
    at almost 6 foot and weighing 170? that sounds like you'd be lean i could be wrong though
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  9. #9
    Time to get BIG aj24's Avatar
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    i am lean just around the gut is more fat than everywhere else. I would just like to have muscle showing for the 3 months of summer break. Right after that break I would bulk again. I was at 145 start of winter and now im 170 pounds. My bench has gone up by about 40 pounds. I was thinking from switching a 3x5 to a 5x5 would be muscle confusion?
    Age: 16
    Height: 5'11.5"
    Weight: 170 pounds, 3:30 p.m. on 4/13/10

  10. #10
    Get Some! KoSh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aj24 View Post
    i am lean just around the gut is more fat than everywhere else. I would just like to have muscle showing for the 3 months of summer break. Right after that break I would bulk again. I was at 145 start of winter and now im 170 pounds. My bench has gone up by about 40 pounds. I was thinking from switching a 3x5 to a 5x5 would be muscle confusion?
    Sounds like you have conflicting goals. You can't have it both ways.

    Switching from 3x5 to 5x5 will be incredibly taxing on your muscles and maybe even your CNS. You won't be eating enough food to promote growth, so you'll get completely beat down and progress will probably stall out completely.

    When cutting you should keep the weights high and the intensity (reps/sets) down. It will help you maintain strength while you're attempting to lose weight. You'll lose some strength no matter what, but you can minimize that by training smarter.

    I don't think you need to cut. But you obviously do, so good luck.
    "Donít fall for the crap that people are peddling on message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your **** in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesnít matter. Start doing and believing in the stuff that works, and do it today and forever. You want science and studies? **** you. Iíve got scars and blood and vomit."
    Jim Wendler, 531 Method

  11. #11
    Time to get BIG aj24's Avatar
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    so stay with starting strengths 3x5?

    what could i do for db curls, barbell curls, dips, chin ups, pull ups? still 3x5?
    Age: 16
    Height: 5'11.5"
    Weight: 170 pounds, 3:30 p.m. on 4/13/10

  12. #12
    Wannabebig Member tcooper's Avatar
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    generally any kind of accessory work is done in higher reps

    i do mostly all of mine in 4x10 or 3x12.

    you just have to know your body, you have to know what makes it grow and what doesnt
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    If you are doing to programs as written, the 5x5 program is a much easier program to recover from in my opinion. It has a light, medium, and heavy day. Ramping weight on each exercise and weekly progression. The 3x5 has you adding weight to the bar every workout and straight weight across the sets.

    Having said that...

    If you are still making workout to workout linear progression on the 3x5 you should not switch. Fight off bordem. you have gained 25lbs and put 40 lbs on your bench since the beginning of winter? Stick with it.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by aj24 View Post
    so stay with starting strengths 3x5?

    what could i do for db curls, barbell curls, dips, chin ups, pull ups? still 3x5?
    I read this after I posted. When I read this I'm not sure if you are doing the workout as written. This is just off of memory.
    Workout A
    Squats: 3 x 5
    Bench Press: 3 x 5
    Deadlift: 1 x 5
    Dips (weighted): 3 x 8

    Squats: 3 x 5
    Press: 3 x 5
    Bent over rows: 3 x 5
    Chin-ups: 3 x 8
    Maxes
    Squat 320
    Bench 255
    Deadlift 455

  15. #15
    Time to get BIG aj24's Avatar
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    I have copied exactly what this site had for starting strength. as an exception of doing power cleans, i am doing high pulls.

    Work Out A:
    Squat 3x5
    Bench Press 3x5
    Deadlift 1x5

    Work Out B:
    Squat 3x5
    Overhead Press 3x5
    High Pulls 3x5

    I have deloaded twice on bench so far and have ramped back up. My last deload was at 165, got the first set and failed on the second. I have only been going up by 5 pounds on bench. I have deloaded too 145 pounds.

    I have been going up by 5 pounds on press and high pulls, also deloaded twice. Now at 75 pounds for both.

    My deadlifts i have been going up by 10 pounds, may need a deload. 1x5 at 225 pounds my form is starting to get a little rough.

    My squats I have not deloaded, i am at 255 pounds. Was going up by 10 pounds now only going to go up by 5's because it is starting to get heavy for me.

    On the A days Accessory work, I do DB Flat Bench Press, Dips, Tricept Pushdowns, Barbell Rows, and Abs Complex. I also do a burn between Bench/Decline 3x5 stayin at 135 pounds Supersetting. I also do chin ups.

    On the B Days Accessory work, I do DB Curls, Shoulder Press ( Machine ), Shrugs, and Barbell Rows. With my own Ab Complex.

    Dips are easy except that i have such broad shoulders, the dip machine at my gym is close together and kills my collar bones. Other than that, pretty easy.

    Chin Ups im finally getting away from the machine and just doing my Body Weight.
    Age: 16
    Height: 5'11.5"
    Weight: 170 pounds, 3:30 p.m. on 4/13/10

  16. #16
    Mr. Skinny Wrists Nicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    When cutting, less volume is better than more.
    This is sound advice. I took this same advice and its working great for me. Only lost a few lbs on my "big 3" and a big 3" off my waist too.
    5'9". 34.-----------------------------BEST LIFTS-----------------------GOALS
    Bodyweight-------------------------BE 280 x 1------------------------BE 300 x 1
    Jan 2009: 151 lbs----------------SQ 365 x 2-----------------------SQ 400 x 1
    Jan 2010: 221 lbs----------------DL 405 x 1------------------------DL 500 x 1
    Current: 214 lbs
    bulking again -- working on my DL

  17. #17
    Time to get BIG aj24's Avatar
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    Chin ups are actually on B days when I work bis, so stick with the 3x5? less volume?
    Age: 16
    Height: 5'11.5"
    Weight: 170 pounds, 3:30 p.m. on 4/13/10

  18. #18
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    What you are doing isn't really the starting strength program. If your "accessory" work is more than the primary work then something is wrong. I don't know why everyone thinks they are the exception and have to do a different program.

    Cut out all accessory work and you could probably add some more pounds to your lifts. If you are wondering why you've stalled and had to deload there's your reason.

  19. #19
    Time to get BIG aj24's Avatar
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    Thats what I started with when I started. No accessory work. Now its not intense enough.
    Age: 16
    Height: 5'11.5"
    Weight: 170 pounds, 3:30 p.m. on 4/13/10

  20. #20
    Mr. Skinny Wrists Nicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aj24 View Post
    Now its not intense enough.
    SS not intense?!?! Then you are not lifting enough.
    5'9". 34.-----------------------------BEST LIFTS-----------------------GOALS
    Bodyweight-------------------------BE 280 x 1------------------------BE 300 x 1
    Jan 2009: 151 lbs----------------SQ 365 x 2-----------------------SQ 400 x 1
    Jan 2010: 221 lbs----------------DL 405 x 1------------------------DL 500 x 1
    Current: 214 lbs
    bulking again -- working on my DL

  21. #21
    Time to get BIG aj24's Avatar
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    It must have been, ive had to deload.
    Age: 16
    Height: 5'11.5"
    Weight: 170 pounds, 3:30 p.m. on 4/13/10

  22. #22
    Wannabebig Member tcooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky View Post
    SS not intense?!?! Then you are not lifting enough.

    QFT

    in all honesty man, by looking at your stats you are in no situation to cut. if you want to CLEAN up your diet, by all means do so. but you need to stick with SS until your numbers arent so bad. (no offense)
    5'6
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  23. #23
    Time to get BIG aj24's Avatar
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    Alright, idk how my numbers are bad if im almost past my weight on everything, but will do
    Age: 16
    Height: 5'11.5"
    Weight: 170 pounds, 3:30 p.m. on 4/13/10

  24. #24
    Wannabebig Member tcooper's Avatar
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    bad was the wrong term, i apologize. no ones numbers are bad. because we all have to start somewhere. but they are a little low to be thinking about cutting.
    i understand youre gaining some stomach fat. its part of the bulking. but you can also minimize to almost illuminate that by having a clean diet.
    just keep your head up man and keep lifting hard!
    5'6
    191.5lbs 8% BF
    25 yrs old
    prepping for my first show!

  25. #25
    Time to get BIG aj24's Avatar
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    Haha i respect the critique, dont have to be sorry. i was way weaker before this site, and yes i am cleaning up the diet as of today.
    Age: 16
    Height: 5'11.5"
    Weight: 170 pounds, 3:30 p.m. on 4/13/10

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