The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #101
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    Personally, I can't wait for this program to be released! I've been using At Large's supplements for years and have never been disappointed. When looking for straight answers in a hobby filled with fads and hype, this forum always seems to be the place to come for no BS answers. I can't wait to jump into this program!
    Last edited by BuckeyeROC; 04-07-2010 at 12:17 PM.

  2. #102
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    [QUOTE=KoSh;2317977]
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post

    5/3/1 is a very well designed program. If you use the Big But Boring template you're training to improve the big three with the main lift, but the assistance work is designed for hypertrophy, which will create the muscle mass you want while still getting stronger. At least in theory it works that way.

    I'm not sure why this quoted your post, Daniel. That's not the one I clicked. Ah well.
    That definitely wasn't my post you quoted!

    Yup, 5/3/1 is an excellent set of principles. Not sure if I made myself clear in previous posts, but to Zorachus, I'm guessing you're a beginner, 5/3/1 (especially the Big But Boring program as it incorporates the necessary extra volume component) will make you big and strong, and closer to your goal than you are now. You just need to put in the time and effort. These things take years, lots of them.

  3. #103
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    HCT-12 is AWSOME!!!

    I have seen a few doubters, so I figured some of my input wouldn't hurt. I cant go into any details, but this program has changed my life, literally, the diet part of the program to be exact. I've had bowel troubles and constant constipation since I was a kid. I have NEVER been regular. Having a proper diet was the answer. I didn't know how to do a proper diet though, and this program has shown me EXACTLY what macro's I need to cut maintain and bulk. It tells you what food choices to make, pre-workout info, fully explains Macronutirents...everything.

    The lifting part of it....it has a couple things in there I wouldda never though of. All of my lifts, every single one, has gone up at least 15%. I am a novice lifter though. I lifted for about 5 months before the actual start of the program. But, everything is up, and my body compisition is already better after 5 weeks.

    This program works.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Roberts View Post
    The program takes this into consideration, it requires you give to the best of your ability on that day whether it be a good or bad day.
    There is no preparatory phase, if you feel like the program is for you and you are not cutting short your progress on an existing program then jump right in.

    As for will you keep your gains? As I said above any gains that can be lost in a week can't have been much to begin with. The body adapts to imposed demands, if you ask it to get bigger by lifting progressively heavier weights, it'll do so, all things being equal. Remove that demand and over a period of time you will lose the muscle.
    To look like a bodybuilder you will need to train for a long time, and once there you'll need to keep training to stay that way - sad but true.

    If you train within certain parameters - which are covered in the article - you won't 'lose your gains' on your journey..

    Which leads me to the next bit, the 'magic rep range'; there isn't one. There's a fairly wide range, which over the course of a training lifetime you should look to get stronger in each for a time i.e. Scott Abel's 'surfing the strength curve'.
    In the articles I explain why and also narrow that range down.
    Alright thank you so much. I know there's some things I can do to prepare. I was wondering as pertaining to your to bulk or cut article, what would be the caloric requirements for someone trying to go from 169 lb 15% bf to 200 lb 7% bf? If it's too big of a jump, what do you consider I do then? Also, so as long as we're training hard, we should be fully prepared for HCT right?
    Last edited by vcjha; 04-07-2010 at 04:24 PM.

  5. #105
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    The nutrition element of HCT-12 is in line with the bulk and cut article - everything is very straight forward and because it needn't be complicated.

    When we release on Monday May 3rd, there is no reason why you can't read it in full and start day one Monday evening.
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  6. #106
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    Awesome, three days ahead of schedule. I just need to know the caloric requirements because my physique is starting to go out of control as far as being skinny fat goes. The fat just keeps piling on but no size change except in the gut. Also, I'm noticeably skinnier than before.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcjha View Post
    Alright thank you so much. I know there's some things I can do to prepare. I was wondering as pertaining to your to bulk or cut article, what would be the caloric requirements for someone trying to go from 169 lb 15% bf to 200 lb 7% bf? If it's too big of a jump, what do you consider I do then? Also, so as long as we're training hard, we should be fully prepared for HCT right?

    Just a quick one to put things in perspective for you, when I said these things take time, I'm not sure you fully appreciated what I was saying.

    I'm assuming you're under 6ft tall. A 200lb man at 7% bf is a very very muscular and very very lean individual, not far off from stepping on stage.
    To achieve that sort of size and condition before dieting down this man would need to be (to account for fat, muscle and water loss) anywhere around 230lbs to 250lbs+ @ maybe 15% bf.
    I'm not sure if you' ever been close to such an individual but trust me, that is a very very large man and lean too.
    Either way to get to this size and condition will have taken years, decades maybe.

    Have a look at Allen Cress's pre-contest log for an idea of the size and condition of a man approaching those stats. Also read into his background and lifting achievements and his time lifting to give you an idea of realistic goals.


    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...ghlight=Acress

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Roberts View Post
    Just a quick one to put things in perspective for you, when I said these things take time, I'm not sure you fully appreciated what I was saying.

    I'm assuming you're under 6ft tall. A 200lb man at 7% bf is a very very muscular and very very lean individual, not far off from stepping on stage.
    To achieve that sort of size and condition before dieting down this man would need to be (to account for fat, muscle and water loss) anywhere around 230lbs to 250lbs+ @ maybe 15% bf.
    I'm not sure if you' ever been close to such an individual but trust me, that is a very very large man and lean too.
    Either way to get to this size and condition will have taken years, decades maybe.

    Have a look at Allen Cress's pre-contest log for an idea of the size and condition of a man approaching those stats. Also read into his background and lifting achievements and his time lifting to give you an idea of realistic goals.


    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...ghlight=Acress
    I see. I actually knew that. 200 lb 7% bf is larger than alan, close to Christian Thibaudeau's size, except he is even larger. Tell me if what goal I should shoot for and the caloric requirements needed to reach that from 169 lb 16% bf if this one isn't reasonable: 180 lb 7% bf.[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by vcjha; 04-08-2010 at 03:35 AM.

  9. #109
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    This thread isn't the place to be discussing your specific personal goals, I'm happy to talk in general though. Yes Alan is lighter than that but as I mentioned above he is an exceptionally well developed and lean individual 'approaching those stats'. CT is about the sort of development you were initially talking about.

    180lbs at 7% BF isn't small either, once again I refer you to Allen Cress (check out his most recent pictures), who'll be stepping on stage at not far off that weight, albeit leaner still, and think hard whether it's a reasonable short term goal for you.

  10. #110
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    this sounds like a great routine. I was just wondering if this would be good for someone who has been lifting for a couple months and needs to shed some weight.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Roberts View Post
    This thread isn't the place to be discussing your specific personal goals, I'm happy to talk in general though. Yes Alan is lighter than that but as I mentioned above he is an exceptionally well developed and lean individual 'approaching those stats'. CT is about the sort of development you were initially talking about.

    180lbs at 7% BF isn't small either, once again I refer you to Allen Cress (check out his most recent pictures), who'll be stepping on stage at not far off that weight, albeit leaner still, and think hard whether it's a reasonable short term goal for you.
    Daniel is it alright to pm u then? I'm not referring to end goal but a goal to shoot for. Basically all I want to know is a goal with a caloric intake which can shave off some of the fat I have on my gut along with some muscle to my skinny physique. I'm sorry if the previous post wasted your time. I'm just now wanting to fix the mistakes which resulted in this horrible physique.
    Last edited by vcjha; 04-08-2010 at 11:39 AM.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting264 View Post
    this sounds like a great routine. I was just wondering if this would be good for someone who has been lifting for a couple months and needs to shed some weight.
    There's no reason why not. Ultimately the goal of the program is to put on muscle. However it will be your diet that ultimately dictates your results.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcjha View Post
    Daniel is it alright to pm u then? I'm not referring to end goal but a goal to shoot for. Basically all I want to know is a goal with a caloric intake which can shave off some of the fat I have on my gut along with some muscle to my skinny physique. I'm sorry if the previous post wasted your time. I'm just now wanting to fix the mistakes which resulted in this horrible physique.
    I can't pick your goals for you. They are intensely personal things. Read and re-read both my previous articles, pick a program, Starting Strength, Wannabebig 1.1 etc and stick to it.

    Focus on getting bigger not on losing weight. Your self-loathing is blinding you to the reality that you're too skinny to be able to effectively do anything but get skinnier if you persist on attempting to lose fat.
    Make the next 6 months an all out war on gaining 20lbs through dedicating yourself to one of these programs and eating accordingly, no excuses and I guarantee that at the end of it, you will actually be leaner.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Roberts View Post
    I can't pick your goals for you. They are intensely personal things. Read and re-read both my previous articles, pick a program, Starting Strength, Wannabebig 1.1 etc and stick to it.

    Focus on getting bigger not on losing weight. Your self-loathing is blinding you to the reality that you're too skinny to be able to effectively do anything but get skinnier if you persist on attempting to lose fat.
    Make the next 6 months an all out war on gaining 20lbs through dedicating yourself to one of these programs and eating accordingly, no excuses and I guarantee that at the end of it, you will actually be leaner.
    Very well. I'll pick another goal. I don't mean to waste time I'll just pick another goal at 175 lb 7% bf. All I need is the caloric intake to follow as pertaining to the cut-bulk article. I'm having a hard time figuring it out. I tried reading this post.

    This method will work for the heavier guy looking to lose but I'm not sure the other way. In the example of the 250 lb guy targeting 235 makes sense.

    I'll use myself as an example. 130 lbs @ 10% BF. Goal is 150 lbs 8% BF. I could simple eat the maintenance calories of a 150 lb man and will gain weight till I hit 150 lbs, only thing is I highly doubt I will be at 8% body fat when I get there. At that point I will be at 150 lbs, lets say 15 %BF. See I'm still short of my goal. My only option would be to do a traditional cut, which would put me under 150 lbs in the end, than I would need to bulk, so it's right back to the traditional approach.
    See post number 2 and 22 by Off Road.

    Food for thought though - if you're goal is 150lbs @ 8% bf and you've worked out the maintenance for a man @ 150lbs @ 8%bf and you're eating that every day and training appropriately, why when you hit 150 @ 15% bf (almost double the target figure - your example) do you think you'd stay that way if you're eating for a man at 8%?

    But just like that guy, except even with offfroad's advice, I still have a hard time figuring out maintenance, this time at my goal for 175 lb 7% bf. IAny advice?

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Roberts View Post
    I can't pick your goals for you. They are intensely personal things. Read and re-read both my previous articles, pick a program, Starting Strength, Wannabebig 1.1 etc and stick to it.

    Focus on getting bigger not on losing weight. Your self-loathing is blinding you to the reality that you're too skinny to be able to effectively do anything but get skinnier if you persist on attempting to lose fat.
    Make the next 6 months an all out war on gaining 20lbs through dedicating yourself to one of these programs and eating accordingly, no excuses and I guarantee that at the end of it, you will actually be leaner.
    I'll second what Daniel said. He's been my mentor through this process and has been of great help.

    A big part of reaching your end goal is nutrition, with the second major factor being your dedication to training. If I were you, I wouldn't worry so much about the bodyfat numbers and would focus more on your goal weight. Start tracking your food intake and your macronutrients, and then weigh yourself on a weekly basis. That's what we're doing for the pilot HCT-12 program. If we're not gaining/losing weight according to our goals when we weigh in at the end of the week, we adjust our food intake for the next week accordingly. It might take a bit of time, but eventually you'll figure out your body. And of course, eating "clean" helps--no highly processed foods. Honestly, it's pretty straightforward.

    I've been using fitday.com, which is a great tool for tracking your macros, as has been mentioned previously. Hope this helps.

    TB

  16. #116
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    @vcjha you've had numerous replies, you're simply not listening. If you want to discuss this further start your own thread.
    Last edited by Daniel Roberts; 04-08-2010 at 04:05 PM.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Roberts View Post
    @vcjha you've had numerous replies, you're simply not listening. If you want to discuss this further start your own thread.
    I'm just trying to understand. I can figure maintenance calories for any lb, but I'm aboslutely clueless as to figuring in maintenance for # lb, PLUS bf%. I just don't get it. I'm taking in the advice, and training is not really an issue for me. All I know is to bust my ass, till I can't go on any more for that session, whether it'd be gasping for air, failing my bodyparts till it's hard to lift them themselves, or some way to work out extremely intensive. As far as it goes, I won't ever think of losing fat until I'm at good size, but your article intrigued me when the numbers showed we can can lower bf% while gaining muscle. I'm just trying to figure out the maintenance caloric intake necessary for the goal I have in mind. Am I asking too much?
    Last edited by vcjha; 04-08-2010 at 06:58 PM.

  18. #118
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    In this thread, yes, you're asking too much. Go to the article discussions section and ask it there.

  19. #119
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    vcjha, this thread is to discuss the HCT program not your specific diet requirements. You're taking the thread off track and not listening properly. If you are confused about the calculation in the bulk or cut article, post it here in the article discussion thread - http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...stion-or-is-it

    I'll say this though (and do NOT reply here about this, take it to the article discussion thread), you're over-thinking things entirely and that will be your downfall. Why are you trying to work out how to get to somewhere that Daniel has already explained might take you 5+ years. Focus on the next 6 months first.

    Simultaniously gaining muscle and losing fat is pretty rare - you have to be either at the right starting point (very overweight and a newcomer to training which you are not) or you need to have very good genetics (which if you are 169, 15% and are training hard, I am gonna guess you do not have these either).

    Don;t worry about the bodyfat calculation, you already said you;re not bothered about cutting until you gained some weight. So do the calculation for 180lbs, eat like that for a month and see how you get on. The calculations are just base calculations and everyone is different so it is up to you to find out what gets you gaining weight at a decent rate without too much bodyfat and you can only do that by sticking to an eating plan for a considerable amount of time. Stop debating, pick a number and get eating.

    REREAD the article twice and then ask your questions in the discussion thread - end of discussion here.
    Last edited by Joe Black; 04-09-2010 at 01:28 AM.
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  20. #120
    Determined View 1's Avatar
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    To help you throw things back on track, what is the difference between the 3,4 and 5 day options?
    Success is achieved by doing a little more than you thought you could, and a lot more than anyone else.

  21. #121
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    Frequency; each bodypart (or musclegroup if you object to the terminology) is trained a minimum of 1.5x per week and a max of 2x on average, depending on which variant you opt for.

  22. #122
    Senior Member Zorachus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Roberts View Post
    Frequency; each bodypart (or musclegroup if you object to the terminology) is trained a minimum of 1.5x per week and a max of 2x on average, depending on which variant you opt for.
    Ok that is different. I am doing the 5/3/1 right now, and there are main lifts days for Chest, Shoulders, and Legs. It is a 3 day per week routine.

    Are you saying that I would add maybe a Chest exercise on my Shoulder day, and a Leg exercise on my Chest day, and a Shoulder exercise on my Leg day ? Meaning those would be assistance lifts, not heavy compound lifts, like you do for the main 5/3/1, but add these in to the other lift days to work those body parts 2x a week ?

    If that is what you mean, it actually sounds like a good idea possibly ?

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Ok that is different. I am doing the 5/3/1 right now, and there are main lifts days for Chest, Shoulders, and Legs. It is a 3 day per week routine.
    5/3/1 is a four day routine, two upper and two lower. so, it's already hitting the "bodyparts" twice a week.
    Some do it as a three day routine, so they hit the "bodyparts 1.5 times a week. Just like Daniel talked about.
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  24. #124
    Senior Member Zorachus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    5/3/1 is a four day routine, two upper and two lower. so, it's already hitting the "bodyparts" twice a week.
    Some do it as a three day routine, so they hit the "bodyparts 1.5 times a week. Just like Daniel talked about.
    I do the 5/3/1 on a 3 day per week routine. But how do I hit body parts on a 1.5 times a week ? If I do Chest/Triceps every Tuesday, Back on Thursdays, and Legs on Sundays, that is just hitting it once per week ? Am I doing something wrong ?

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    I do the 5/3/1 on a 3 day per week routine. But how do I hit body parts on a 1.5 times a week ? If I do Chest/Triceps every Tuesday, Back on Thursdays, and Legs on Sundays, that is just hitting it once per week ? Am I doing something wrong ?
    5/3/1 is:

    Press day (upper) w/ accessories including a pull.
    Deadlift day (lower) w/accessories
    Bench day (upper) w/ accessories including a pull.
    Squat day (lower) w/ accessories

    Notice there is no "chest" day or "back" day...

    Training 4 days = 2 upper and 2 lower
    Training 3 days = upper and lower 1.5 times a week
    Training 2 days = full body twice a week

    Do you have the book?
    Last edited by Off Road; 04-09-2010 at 04:44 PM.
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