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Thread: Allen's Off Season Training and Nutrition

  1. #76
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by f=ma View Post
    this makes more sense and is pretty obvious in hindsight hah, i still dont understand the point of the deficit for an offseason diet though.
    You have to be in a relative calorie deficit for the cycle diet to work. It has to do with leptin horomone, thyroid levels, etc.....

  2. #77
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    Hi, Allen. I just wanted to say thank you for your explanation of why you put squats last in your workout. It helped me to realize that I've been putting too much focus on the amount of weight on the bar for certain lifts, rather than focusing on the muscle.

  3. #78
    Wannabebig Member DavisK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris407 View Post
    Hi, Allen. I just wanted to say thank you for your explanation of why you put squats last in your workout. It helped me to realize that I've been putting too much focus on the amount of weight on the bar for certain lifts, rather than focusing on the muscle.
    Chris if your goals are purely cosmetic, Allen is right on! For me I used to be all about the big 3 "powerlifts." I did Eric Cressey's Maximum Strength program 1.5-2 years ago. Of course, my numbers went up, but my physique did not really improve. At 165 lbs. I had a 445 DL, 355 SQ, and 265 BP. I know they are weak by powerlifting standards, but I'm not a powerlifter. After that time, I started following the training prinicples similarly to what Allen does. Fast forward to the present day, I'm still the same weight, but my physique has definitely improved without even worrying about my "numbers." "Train for development and strength will come." I think Allen could attest to the same experience. He used to be a powerlifter.
    Last edited by DavisK; 07-06-2010 at 11:08 AM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavisK View Post
    Chris if your goals are purely cosmetic, Allen is right on! For me I used to be all about the big 3 "powerlifts." I did Eric Cressey's Maximum Strength program 1.5-2 years ago. Of course, my numbers went up, but my physique did not really improve. At 165 lbs. I had a 445 DL, 355 SQ, and 265 BP. I know they are weak by powerlifting standards, but I'm not a powerlifter. After that time, I started following the training prinicples similarly to what Allen does. Fast forward to the present day, I'm still the same weight, but my physique has definitely improved without even worrying about my "numbers." "Train for development and strength will come." I think Allen could attest to the same experience. He used to be a powerlifter.
    Yeah, I used to be very focused on lifting for numbers, but have changed my focus to aesthetics. I've been really happy with the improvements I've made, but its been hard to let go of focusing on the numbers on certain lifts (deadlift and military press). I didn't even realize I was still stuck on the numbers until I read through some of Allen's posts.

  5. #80
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Back to Training!!

    After a week off its time to get back to growing. I had an incredible time at the workshop in Canada and there were alot of eye opening info for everyone when it came to training, nutrition, and supplements. Everyone definitley got more than their moneys worth. We had a great turn out with some high end bodybuilders, fitness competitors, coaches, and strength athletes who all got humbled on the work part of the workshop.

    I will start my bulking diet today as well as my new protocol which I will implement cross innervation into it.

    Here is my diet:

    1) 2 cups egg whites, 3 shredded wheat, 2 tbsp natural peanut butter, fruit
    2) 2 scoops nitrean, fruit
    3) 200g chicken, 2.5 cups rice
    4) 160g chciken, 2.5 cups rice
    5) 160g lean beef, 100g pasta, 1 tbsp pb
    6) 2 cups egg whites, 2 shredded wheat or fruit


    Today training session chest & single side back

    1) Flat DB press 3 x 6, 1 x 8-10, 1x 10-12, 1x 12-15
    2) Incline DB press 4 x 8-10
    3) Seated press 1 x strip set
    4) Incline bar press 3 x 12-15
    5) Seated cable fly 3 x 12-15

    Quad plex (no rest, after doing left side go straigh to right) 4 x 10-15
    - Single side Cable reverse grip row
    - Single side Reverse grip pulldown
    - Single side Wide Pull down
    - Single side Low pulley row

    Time to grow!!!

  6. #81
    WBB Team Captain Coke's Avatar
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    Great that you got the chance to interact with your peers at the recent workshop.

  7. #82
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    allen, at this point, where are you in terms of leanness?

  8. #83
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by f=ma View Post
    allen, at this point, where are you in terms of leanness?
    Still pretty lean with abs visible. Even when I bulk I tend to stay very lean because of my porportions. Thats the thing when really bulking everyone looks different dpending on their build and where they hold fat the most. Some guys just look bigger and others look a little sloppy, but if you are a hard gainer then you need to bulk to build that foundation and put the mirror away for a while.

  9. #84
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    aye about the bit with the mirror. i am far from a hard gainer. i finally found my maintenence cal levels after about a month of bumping cals slowly. i did indulge a lot last week after a big loss of psychological control but it wasnt too damaging.. the net effect was a little fat gain and pretty much completely filling glycogen levels. my bulking diet is comparable to yours except i dont really mess with rice because its such a PITA to measure dry.. prefer pasta for that reason -- it is the first time i have tried to gain with controlled, lower fat intake focusing mainly on carb levels and i'm interested to see how it pans out. hopefully i can stay reasonably lean over the next 20lbs.. and i'll surely be following along here to see how you progress, which im sure will be very well. do you have your next show picked out at this point?

  10. #85
    Small guy depotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Cress View Post
    Training was extremely intense today. The tri-plexes had my oxygen debt thru the roof and I had a tremendous pump thru the whole workout.

    1) Wide Pulldowns 3 x 12-15, 200 lbs
    2) Reverse pulldown 3 x 12-15, 180 lbs

    3a) Compound Tubing Row 3 x 15-20
    3b) DB pullover 3 x 10-12, 75 lbs
    3c) DB shrug, hammer grip 3 x 15-20, 100 lbs

    4) One arm DB row 3 x 10-12, 110 lbs

    5a) Alternating bent DB row with rotations 3 x 10-15, 40 lbs
    5b) Tubing swimmers 3 x 15
    5c) BB shrugs 3 x 8-10, 275 lbs

    Tomorrow is my Mid-week spike and hunger is very high right now.
    Allen, when you do your tri-plexes how long do you wait before moving from your 3a exercise to your 3b exercise and so on?

    Then when you have completed 3c how long do you rest before you start the next set?

    Thanks,

    Jake
    Last edited by depotman; 07-20-2010 at 07:47 AM.

  11. #86
    Small guy depotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Cress View Post
    Also don't think heavy or light when it comes to the weight you use think of whether its challenging in whatever rep range you use. So don't strive for more weight or reps that will come over time, strive for more muscle activation during a set.
    This is a great statement right here. and definitely something I will use in my training sessions.

    I'm wondering what literature you suggest people get their hands on, if they are interested in your training protocols, and methodology? Any specific books on nutrition and training protocols you recommend?

  12. #87
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    Depotman, the intention of a triplex or quadplex is to move from one to another without rest and work the 3 or 4 stations after eachother. The only rest you have is going to the other station and try to get in as much air as you can going to the station. After completing the triplex I rest not too long and try to start again with incomplete recovery depending on the feedback my body gives me, for exemple lesser rest between triplex 1 and 2 and longer rest between triplex 3 and 4, maybe Allen can chime in about what he does exactly, eric

  13. #88
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by f=ma View Post
    aye about the bit with the mirror. i am far from a hard gainer. i finally found my maintenence cal levels after about a month of bumping cals slowly. i did indulge a lot last week after a big loss of psychological control but it wasnt too damaging.. the net effect was a little fat gain and pretty much completely filling glycogen levels. my bulking diet is comparable to yours except i dont really mess with rice because its such a PITA to measure dry.. prefer pasta for that reason -- it is the first time i have tried to gain with controlled, lower fat intake focusing mainly on carb levels and i'm interested to see how it pans out. hopefully i can stay reasonably lean over the next 20lbs.. and i'll surely be following along here to see how you progress, which im sure will be very well. do you have your next show picked out at this point?
    That was directed at you just a statement in general for anyone else reading this thread. By the looks of your avatar you have a great base and a clean bulk is definitley what you should be doing.

    I never measure rice dry, 1 cup cooked is 45 grams carbs. Everything I measure is cooked besides oatmeal.

    My next contest is next June.

  14. #89
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depotman View Post
    Allen, when you do your tri-plexes how long do you wait before moving from your 3a exercise to your 3b exercise and so on?

    Then when you have completed 3c how long do you rest before you start the next set?

    Thanks,

    Jake
    It all depends on the context of the protocol. For this one I rested 20-30 sec before the next exercise and I just assessed my feedback to gauge when I would start the next set. I don't use a stop watch or anything.
    Last edited by Allen Cress; 07-20-2010 at 01:47 PM.

  15. #90
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depotman View Post

    I'm wondering what literature you suggest people get their hands on, if they are interested in your training protocols, and methodology? Any specific books on nutrition and training protocols you recommend?
    One of the best books to start getting a grasp of the methodology is "The Abel Approach" by Scott Abel. You can purchse it on his website. As far as training protocols they are designed for myself and based on my current needs state and goals. As far as nutrition I study various books and research(be careful what you read), one being a text "Modern Nutrition". Also Scott's MP3 the truth about diet is great stuff . He is my mentor and I have learned alot from him and apply the methods and principles in my own way to my clients.

  16. #91
    Small guy depotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Cress View Post
    It all depends on the context of the protocol. For this one I rested 20-30 sec before the next exercise and I just assessed my feedback to gauge when I would start the next set. I don't use a stop watch or anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Cress View Post
    One of the best books to start getting a grasp of the methodology is "The Abel Approach" by Scott Abel. You can purchse it on his website. As far as training protocols they are designed for myself and based on my current needs state and goals. As far as nutrition I study various books and research(be careful what you read), one being a text "Modern Nutrition". Also Scott's MP3 the truth about diet is great stuff . He is my mentor and I have learned alot from him and apply the methods and principles in my own way to my clients.
    Allen thanks for the replies, I have purchased "The Abel Approach" by Scott Abel. I can already say after just reading 30 minutes worth of the content I have learned a ton of info.

    Loving the info on working out your arms and chest. Makes good sense and not necessarily the stuff I have been doing. This will help me out immensely. It kind of feels like I have been wasting a lot of time with some of the stuff I have been doing. Almost like paddling up stream if you will, glad to get pointed in the right direction on some of my training.

  17. #92
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    I'm 4 days into new protocol and diet and everything is going smoothly except being sore everywhere, which is always the case after a week off. Definitley going to increase calories after this week as hunger is getting higher as week progresses and I get back into the full swing of things.

    Today I did Back and a Bi-lateral circuit.

    1) Wide pulldowns 1 x 6-8, 2 x 8-10, 1 x 10-12
    2) One arm row 4 x 8-10
    3) Reverse grip pulldown 4 x 10-12
    4) Bent BB row 3 x 10-12
    5) Straight arm pulldown 3 x 15

    Bi-lateral circuit: Do weak side first for all exercises then go straight to other side , no rest: 3 x 8:
    - Single side DB split squat
    - One arm DB row
    - Single side DB chest press off SB
    - DB Side lateral Throw
    - Single arm DB tricep ext
    - Single arm DB cheat curl

    Had a good old feeling of naseau after this.

  18. #93
    Wannabebig Member DavisK's Avatar
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    Allen, what is your training split for this new program?

  19. #94
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    Allen has laid out his program split in page 1 of this thread. eric

  20. #95
    Small guy depotman's Avatar
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    Looks great Allen, thanks for the info and thanks for sharing you routines.

  21. #96
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POWERZN View Post
    Allen has laid out his program split in page 1 of this thread. eric
    This is a whole new program from what I was doing when I started this thread.

    My split is:

    Day 1: Legs/calves
    Day 2: Chest
    Day 3: Shoulders
    Day 4: off
    Day 5: Back
    Day 6: Arms/Core
    Day 7: off

    I am also applying cross-innervation techniques at the end of chest, shoulder, and back day.So this is a Hybrid program and not purely traditional.

  22. #97
    Wannabebig Member DavisK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Cress View Post
    This is a whole new program from what I was doing when I started this thread.

    My split is:

    Day 1: Legs/calves
    Day 2: Chest
    Day 3: Shoulders
    Day 4: off
    Day 5: Back
    Day 6: Arms/Core
    Day 7: off

    I am also applying cross-innervation techniques at the end of chest, shoulder, and back day.So this is a Hybrid program and not purely traditional.
    So for today it was Back/Bilateral Circuit. What is done at the end of the chest and shoulder days?

  23. #98
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavisK View Post
    So for today it was Back/Bilateral Circuit. What is done at the end of the chest and shoulder days?
    Its not the same week to week. I have 4 different workouts/rotations with each muscle.

  24. #99
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    This is such a great journal, especially for a beginner like me. Great information and diet and such, but could you elaborate a bit more on supplements that you use while bulking.

  25. #100
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    It is interresting to see what the possibilities are while thinking outside of the box. Sometimes people are stuck
    in a repertoire of exercises for mass, exercises for being on a diet, cardio for getting lean. So it is good to see
    for people that the ways to ' get there ' are endless and it has not to be either ' this' or 'that' .
    Of course it stays individual and just copying Allen's workout is stupid because this program is written for
    HIM and not in a general way, the program is what Allen needs at this moment of his training carreer and
    personal feedback will lead him trough his off season with the right adjustement, eric

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