The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Crikey, its a 30 foot ape! Kong's Avatar
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    Question for vdizenzo and other experienced guys

    I'm soon coming off a cut and am wanting to up the calories for a while and pack on some more size and strength. I've been following a 4 day split combining strength and hypertrophy rep ranges, basically working up to a 3rm on the main lift then 2x5 and 2x8 on assistance work.
    Basically i'm wanting to try a Westside style of training but with more hypertrophy work and if possible would also like to incorporate ME overhead press work but am finding it difficult to think of how to incorporate it all especially without overtraining being an issue. I've just got my first pair of bands (only a pair of minis) which i've yet to use properly.

    I was thinking something like

    Day 1 - ME Bench/ME Overhead Press & Upper Body Assistance
    ME Bench/ME Overhead Press
    Chest
    Row
    Triceps
    Upper Back
    Bis

    Day 2 - ME Squat/Deadlift & Lower Body Assistance
    Quads
    Posterior Chain/Hamstrings
    Abs
    Calves
    HIIT

    Day 3 - DE Bench & Upper Body Hypertrophy
    DE Bench 8x3 @ 50-60%
    Chest
    Triceps
    Pullups
    Delts
    Biceps

    Day 4 - DE Squat/Deadlift & Lower Body Hypertrophy
    DE Box Squat 10x2 @ 50-60%
    DE Deadlift 6x1 @ 60-70%
    Quads
    Posterior Chain/Hamstrings
    Abs
    Calves
    HIIT

    Rep ranges for assistance exercises (Days 1 & 2) would probably be 3x5 and for hypertrophy exercises 3x8-12.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated.

    I would also like to know people's ME lifts of choice and if i should always use the bands on my DE work.

    For ME Bench work i was thinkin flat bench, dead press (off pins in the rack), floor press and pause bench.
    For ME Overhead - Military Press, Push Press, Seated Press and partial press (off pins)
    For ME DL Squat - Squats, Front Squats, Box Squats, Partial Squats off pins, Deficit Deadlift, Good Mornings, Deadlift and Rack Pull (from knees)
    Last edited by Kong; 07-22-2010 at 06:26 PM.
    Current 1RM's - Bench 264lbs (Target 308lbs)/Squat 396lbs (Target 352lbs)/
    Deadlift 429lbs (Target 440lbs)
    BIG 3 TOTAL at 220lbs (28% BF) = 1089lbs
    6ft 2, 234lb fat, hairy ape!
    My journal - http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...sion-of-an-ape

    "This stuff will make you a sexual Tyrannosaurus. Just like me!" As said by the great Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

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  3. #2
    Da Bears slashkills's Avatar
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    why not just put OH press into rotation with your other ME movements? if you did it each week you would burn out. If you do decide to max on bench and OH press each week i recommend staying away from bands because they will kill your recovery.

    Maybe you could try doing a 531 style OH press day or adding it to your DE day?
    Last edited by slashkills; 07-23-2010 at 08:10 AM.

  4. #3
    Crikey, its a 30 foot ape! Kong's Avatar
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    Thanks mate. What about this then?

    ME Bench 5/3/1
    Chest - Dips 3x5
    Row - 4x5
    Delts - 3x8
    Upper back - Face Pull 3x10
    Tris - CG Bench 3x5
    Bis - BB Curls 3x5

    DE Box Squat 10x2 (50-60%)
    DE DL 6x1 (60-70%)
    Quad - Front Squat 3x8
    Lower Back/Hamstrings - Leg Curls 3x12
    Abs - Decline Situps 3x12
    Calves - Calf Press 3x8
    HIIT

    DE Bench 8x3 (50-60%)
    Chest - Low-Incline DB Bench 3x8
    Pullup - 4xmax
    Military Press 5/3/1
    Upper Back - DB Shrugs 3x8
    Tris - DB Skullcrushers 3x8
    Bis - DB Preachers 3x8

    ME Squat 5/3/1/ME Deadlift 5/3/1
    Quads - Pause Hacks 3x5
    Lower Back/Hamstrings - SLDL 3x5
    Abs - Wood Cutters 3x12
    Calves - Standing Raises 3x12
    HIIT

    Instead of following wendlers protocol i'll be working to a true 5/3/1rm then deloading on the fourth week.
    Current 1RM's - Bench 264lbs (Target 308lbs)/Squat 396lbs (Target 352lbs)/
    Deadlift 429lbs (Target 440lbs)
    BIG 3 TOTAL at 220lbs (28% BF) = 1089lbs
    6ft 2, 234lb fat, hairy ape!
    My journal - http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...sion-of-an-ape

    "This stuff will make you a sexual Tyrannosaurus. Just like me!" As said by the great Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

  5. #4
    Senior Member
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    Travis or someone more familiar with it, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that a lot of Westside programming is geared towards hypertrophy in the sense that most of the assistance exercises (chest supported rows, reverse hypers, triceps extensions) are done using the repetition method. Don't worry about over training so much. It's not as easy as you may think to do, and you will probably know if you are over trained.

    As far as 3 x 5 on ME days and 3 x 8-12 on DE days, I personally would do something more like this:


    ME Lower

    Free Squat to a 1-3 RM
    Rack Pulls 3 x 5
    Lunges 3 x 8-12
    Glute Ham Raise 3 x 8-12
    Abs 5 x 8-15
    Cardio (whatever you like)

    And that's it. If you try to do every exercise after the main one as 3 x 5 you will probably burn out faster. Keep in mind that a "x5" load is still probably going to be fairly heavy, especially for assistance work.

  6. #5
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
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    It seems like way too much on each day in my opinion. I tend to keep the volume down I guess. You can always rotate the exercises in. You don't have to do them every workout.

    The following is generally what I've done and I've put on 40 pounds in the last three years, almost all WSB training.

    Max Effort Lower
    - ME Movement: rotating squat/GM/deadlift
    - GHR/45 Ext./Rev. Hyper/Pullthroughs etc. - Pick 1 to 2 for 5 sets of 10
    - Abs - 1 exercise for 5 sets of 10

    Max Effort Upper
    - ME Movement
    - Lockout Work: 4 or 5 board or Rack Lockouts - 3 sets of 5 or up to a heavy set of 5
    - Row - 1 movement 5 sets of 10
    - Side/Rear Delt/Traps/Rotators - 1 or 2 exercises 5 sets of 10
    - Abs - 1 exercise for 5 sets of 10

    Dynamic Effort Lower
    - Dynamic Squat - 6-12 sets of 2 depending on contrast method
    - Supplemental Deadlift: Romanians, Speed Pulls, Rack Pulls (nothing to a max)
    - GHR/45 Ext./Rev. Hyper/Pull Through Etc. - 1 or 2 exercises for 5 sets of 10
    - Abs - 1 exercise for 5 sets of 10

    Dynamic Effort Upper
    - DE Bench - 9 sets of 3 reps, varying contrast
    - Supplemental Press: DB Bench, OHP, Floor Press Etc. - Usually 3-5 x 10, but you could go 5s here.
    - Pullups/Chinups - 5 sets of 10 or try to beat a rep record etc.
    - Tricep Extensions - 5 sets of 10
    - Side/Rear/Rotator/Trap - 5 sets of 10
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  7. #6
    Crikey, its a 30 foot ape! Kong's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot Adam...what ME lifts do you recommend and do you always work up to singles?
    Current 1RM's - Bench 264lbs (Target 308lbs)/Squat 396lbs (Target 352lbs)/
    Deadlift 429lbs (Target 440lbs)
    BIG 3 TOTAL at 220lbs (28% BF) = 1089lbs
    6ft 2, 234lb fat, hairy ape!
    My journal - http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...sion-of-an-ape

    "This stuff will make you a sexual Tyrannosaurus. Just like me!" As said by the great Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

  8. #7
    Senior Member martin's Avatar
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    OH press isn't greatly technical neither does it involve anything the bench doesn't so there is no need for seperate days.

    Personally I'd just use an OH pressing exercises as my assistance work on ME and DE Upper day for 5-7 / 12-15 reps, then maybe add in an OH press as one of your ME rotations.

    M
    Best lifts @ 226 lbs

    Squat - 903
    Bench - 573 / 617 @ 246
    Dead - 727

    Best Total - 2204 lbs @ 226 18/07/2010

  9. #8
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kong View Post
    Thanks a lot Adam...what ME lifts do you recommend and do you always work up to singles?
    Some people aren't comfortable doing singles on GMs so they do heavy 3s or 5s. Nothing wrong with that at all in my opinion. For squats and deadlifts usually singles. For bench usually singles.

    As far as exercise selection you just need to figure out what you think is best. There are truly too many options to list. I just don't recommend using the competition lifts. Use a variation on the competition lifts. For example, don't work up to a max deadlift single. Work up to a max single on the dealift, but with 80lbs of chain. Don't take a max bench press single. Work up to a close grip single instead.

    It's hard to say "do these exercises" b/c I don't know your weaknesses or what equipment you have available.

    You should check out Wild Iron Gym's log on here. They follow a WSB template and there are usually videos. That would be a good place to find ideas.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  10. #9
    Crikey, its a 30 foot ape! Kong's Avatar
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    I've got use of an adjustable power rack so i can do partial movements, a 6" block for platform pulls and just got a pair of mini bands. Thinking of going with Floor Press, CG Bench, Band Bench, Reverse Band Bench for ME Upper. And for ME lower Good Mornings, GMs with bands, GMs with reverse bands. Rack Pulls from knee, Platform pulls, Band Deadlift, Reverse Band Deadlift, Box Squat, Band Squat and Reverse Band Squat. Which out of these do you feel would be most productive?
    Current 1RM's - Bench 264lbs (Target 308lbs)/Squat 396lbs (Target 352lbs)/
    Deadlift 429lbs (Target 440lbs)
    BIG 3 TOTAL at 220lbs (28% BF) = 1089lbs
    6ft 2, 234lb fat, hairy ape!
    My journal - http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...sion-of-an-ape

    "This stuff will make you a sexual Tyrannosaurus. Just like me!" As said by the great Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

  11. #10
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
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    That's the beauty of the conjugate method. You just try it an find out. What works for you may not work for me.

    I will say that there are days at BAG that we came up with some exercise, hated it, and never did it again. Others we came up with became keepers.

    Most of what you listed sound like good, solid exercises. I'm not crazy about GMs against bands, but give it a go if you want. I've never tried it.

    You might consider getting some light bands and average bands. That would give you a ton of options.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  12. #11
    Crikey, its a 30 foot ape! Kong's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot mate
    Current 1RM's - Bench 264lbs (Target 308lbs)/Squat 396lbs (Target 352lbs)/
    Deadlift 429lbs (Target 440lbs)
    BIG 3 TOTAL at 220lbs (28% BF) = 1089lbs
    6ft 2, 234lb fat, hairy ape!
    My journal - http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...sion-of-an-ape

    "This stuff will make you a sexual Tyrannosaurus. Just like me!" As said by the great Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

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