The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Bismarck in Training emjlr3's Avatar
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    Jun 2004
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    Lifting Partners + HCT-12 (And Other Various Questions)

    Long time no post....



    I am a bit confused as to the mention of wait times and its impact on lifting partners (sorry if this has been posted before, but itís not in the FAQS and I could not find a thread about it here on the first two pages)

    For a normal routine, lets say 5 sets of bench, I go, then my partner, etc., for 5 sets, and we each get about 90-120s rest in between sets

    that seems like it would work well for the warm-up and working sets

    but once we got to the final 85% 1RM 6 rep set, where you are expected to go 6+2+2+2 - I donít see how we are supposed to manage the suggested 30s wait interval for both of us, unless one person were to wait about 4 minutes before doing his set, while the first person (or in my case, sometimes there is three of us) finishes theirs





    a few other minor things - maybe I missed in the bulk of the articles - but what is the purpose of the +2+2+2? its not within the "magical" rep range, its that just geared more towards trying to promote further strength gains, or what?





    second, just for my initial glance over, this seems like it could really take a while to complete in the gym

    If I am doing 4 big compound movements on my Monday schedule (followed by triceps) - it just seems like this could really add up to a massively long routine

    for example:

    lets assume we are doing 4 feel sets, 5 working sets, and the final 6+2+2+2 set - this is a total of 10 sets/movement - a total of (4*1)+(5*6)+(1*6)+2+2+2 = 46 reps

    4 exercises at this is 184 reps + your triceps exercise

    assuming a 10 minute warm-up, average of 2 minutes in between sets (which counts the final set due to 3 30 second pauses), this will have us in the gym for 90 minutes, not including triceps (please check my math this was quick and dirty), and this is only if you are keeping a quick pace going to whole time.

    just seems like a lot to me. Granted its not all super heavy, its still time consuming - not sure how you can say this can be done in under 1 hour....




    my final question is just to make sure I have a general sense of the rep scheme, thus another example (with weight I can work with, and wait durations):

    I lie down on the bench, grab the bar, do some warm up reps, wait 90 seconds
    throw 115 on for 2, wait 90 seconds
    throw 155 on for 2, wait 90 seconds
    throw 185 on for 2, wait 90 seconds
    throw 225 on for 6, wait 90 seconds
    throw 245 on for 6, wait 90 seconds
    throw 260 on for 6 barely, wait 30 seconds, do 2 more, wait 30 seconds, do 2 more, wait 30 seconds, do 2 more
    and I am done

    then move on to my next exercise, rinse and repeat

    the number of working sets is determined by what? it seems to be just a feel.....as in, when you think you are warm enough to do the heavy set, go for it (which is how I designed my layout above) - the "working sets" are not so much for growth stimulation, as they are for a warm-up to get to your 1 hard set? it almost seems like a day where you are going for your 1RM, except we are warming up to a 6RM....




    anyway, interesting program, thanks,
    Last edited by emjlr3; 05-13-2010 at 11:12 AM.
    Height: 6' 1/2" Age: 24

    Current Status: The brace is off....
    Weight: 208 lbs.

    Back in action...

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  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    I am a bit confused as to the mention of wait times and its impact on lifting partners (sorry if this has been posted before, but itís not in the FAQS and I could not find a thread about it here on the first two pages)

    For a normal routine, lets say 5 sets of bench, I go, then my partner, etc., for 5 sets, and we each get about 90-120s rest in between sets

    that seems like it would work well for the warm-up and working sets
    Yup it does.

    but once we got to the final 85% 1RM 6 rep set, where you are expected to go 6+2+2+2 - I donít see how we are supposed to manage the suggested 30s wait interval for both of us, unless one person were to wait about 4 minutes before doing his set, while the first person (or in my case, sometimes there is three of us) finishes theirs
    That's going to be an issue with any program, especially with 3 of you. However 2 rep clusters with each of you on and off is do-able in around 30s.


    a few other minor things - maybe I missed in the bulk of the articles - but what is the purpose of the +2+2+2? its not within the "magical" rep range, its that just geared more towards trying to promote further strength gains, or what?
    It isn't the rep range that's 'magical', it's the load. It just happens that 6 reps is about the most anyone can get with it.
    And 1 set is about as many as you're able to do with a 6RM (with reasonable rest). The clusters allow us to get another 6 reps at 80-85% intensity in a short space of time. It's a way of getting in additional volume at the same intensity whilst managing fatigue.



    second, just for my initial glance over, this seems like it could really take a while to complete in the gym

    If I am doing 4 big compound movements on my Monday schedule (followed by triceps) - it just seems like this could really add up to a massively long routine

    for example:

    lets assume we are doing 4 feel sets, 5 working sets, and the final 6+2+2+2 set - this is a total of 10 sets/movement - a total of (4*1)+(5*6)+(1*6)+2+2+2 = 46 reps

    4 exercises at this is 184 reps + your triceps exercise

    assuming a 10 minute warm-up, average of 2 minutes in between sets (which counts the final set due to 3 30 second pauses), this will have us in the gym for 90 minutes, not including triceps (please check my math this was quick and dirty), and this is only if you are keeping a quick pace going to whole time.

    just seems like a lot to me. Granted its not all super heavy, its still time consuming - not sure how you can say this can be done in under 1 hour....
    See below for rest suggestions, but unless there's three of you it can comfortably be done in under an hour.

    my final question is just to make sure I have a general sense of the rep scheme, thus another example (with weight I can work with, and wait durations):

    I lie down on the bench, grab the bar, do some warm up reps, wait 90 seconds
    throw 115 on for 2, wait 90 seconds
    throw 155 on for 2, wait 90 seconds
    throw 185 on for 2, wait 90 seconds
    Don't wait, just load the bar and crack on.

    throw 225 on for 6, wait 90 seconds
    throw 245 on for 6, wait 90 seconds
    throw 260 on for 6 barely, wait 30 seconds, do 2 more, wait 30 seconds, do 2 more, wait 30 seconds, do 2 more
    and I am done
    then move on to my next exercise, rinse and repeat
    That's right.

    the number of working sets is determined by what? it seems to be just a feel.....as in, when you think you are warm enough to do the heavy set, go for it (which is how I designed my layout above) - the "working sets" are not so much for growth stimulation, as they are for a warm-up to get to your 1 hard set? it almost seems like a day where you are going for your 1RM, except we are warming up to a 6RM....
    Correct for the most part, but as soon as you start hitting a load of 70% and above on the ramping sets/working sets you'll be stimulating growth, there just won't be much in the way of appropriate fatigue in those sets, although they will add to the cumulative fatigue.



    anyway, interesting program, thanks.
    Thank you.

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