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Thread: Diet goals, Cardio, other activities plus HCT-12.

  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010

    Diet goals, Cardio, other activities plus HCT-12.

    I am on my second week of HCT-12 which seems to be working very well. I am currently following this version of the regimen.

    Monday - Workout A
    - Weighted Chin-Ups
    - Bent Over Barbell Rows
    - Flat Barbell Bench Press
    - Seated Dumbbell Shoulder Press
    - Close-Grip Bench Press

    Tuesday - Workout B
    - Squats
    - Deadlifts
    - Standing Smith Machine Calve Raises
    - Barbell Curls
    - Decline Crunches

    With Thursday being workout A, and Friday being workout B.

    I am currently 193lbs with an unknown bf%, I estimate it to be fairly lower than when it was tested using a bod pod at 198lbs(this was after cutting from 207lbs) and 19.7% bf. So maybe around 16-17% or so. My diet has been a daily 4.2k calorie diet from the end of August to the beginning of April to which it went to 3.7k. But some issues have happened in the past week and I haven't been able to keep a steady diet, days ranging from 2.5k-2.7k calories to even less than 1k and this seems to be having detrimental effects of my energy and mental state.

    I ran the EC stack for about a month before turning it into an ECY stack...for a day. After having a bad experience with that stack, I decided to toss out all OTC drug fat-loss stacks in place of clean dieting and cardio.

    So my plan was to concentrate on getting to a nice sub-10% bodyfat level which would have been around ~180lbs if calculated right from 198lbs 20% bf; and slowly clean bulk from that onwards. I would classify myself as a ecto-meso, because its not difficult for me to gain weight but not really difficult for me to lose weight, but losing weight is much easier.

    Overall the plan of cutting on a diet of 2.5k to 2.7k isn't working very well. One reason is that time management isn't top key and sometimes find myself surviving off <1000 calories for the better part of the day which in turn tends to lead to massive fatigue and just overall sick feeling. That could be fixed but then I read your article, "To bulk or to cut..." and it interested me, but something didn't seem right.

    My end goal is around 225lbs at ~8%, of course the article seemed to be based on goals in a six to year long time frame; which stated in the article to be around 15-30lbs of LBM increased and 30-60lbs of fat loss. But for my sake I'm going to just go for the six month period, based on the 198lbs 20% actual tested proof, I calculated what would be the most reasonable six month goal for not only low body fat% but also overall increase in lean body mass. So it came out to 188lbs, 8% bf, which is considerably lower, weight-wise then 198lbs, 20% bf, but would most-likely larger. Then six months from that, 204-205lbs at 8% would be a good goal and so forth with minor 250kcal changes to help increase or decrease the margin to reach said goals.

    So 188lbs at 8% bf doesn't sound too terrible. How would I go about eating for that? Let say I work out 4hrs a week, stack on 3x 30min sessions of low intensity cardio(3mile runs), and perhaps even some boxing, brazillian jiujitsu classes on top of that, possibly. We'll go ahead and say it would be:

    188x16 = 3008kcal vs. my current BMR which would be 3088. So I would be eating pretty much 3000 calories to reach that goal. If I wanted to eat my year goal weight of 204-205lbs at 8%, I would have to eat 3280 calories a day. The problem is, body composition, so we know that taking the target bodyweight and multiplying it by the activity level adds up to the BMR rate, how does the bodyfat % affect that number?

    How exactly is 8% bf achieved, does it just automatically drop as you continue eat at the target bw's BMR?

    So if I was going to go from 193lbs, ?% bf to 188lbs 8% bf. I would have to eat 3000kcal a day until I was 188lbs bf%, but what if I wasn't 8% bf, what factors in the calories change to change the bf% goal? Same with eating 3280 calories a day to get to 205lbs, what keeps me from becoming 205lbs 25% bf and just staying at 25% bf?

    Basically I want the diet to be based around a reasonable six month or year weight and body composition goal and to also focus on gaining strength and size overall but also losing fat, it doesn't matter if it happens at the same time or fat loss begins and then lean body mass increase starts or vice versa as long as the goal is met in the end.

    Also would cardio been an issue for the routine? I find that cardio tends to keep my endurance and cardiovascular system in check, if not improves it. My main goal in "bodybuilding" is to build a body that is both functionally large(muscle aids in activities outside of the gym) and physically large.

    I have a few pet peeves and issues that have plagued me since I started lifting, one is the size/strength of my chest, most people are absolutely chest-driven and excel on the bench press, this is one area that I seem to lack greatly in comparison to most people. My compound lifts altogether aren't the greatest with a 300lb 1RM squat, 255lbs 1RM bench press, and 405lb 1RM deadlift.

    My other pet peeve is my arm size, which started at 10"'s, they seem to have seen alot of growth but still they aren't very large due to such a low starting point, fore-arms included, an even bigger problem is that they differ in strength and size, an issue I have constantly tried to solve my focusing on dumbbell lifts, isolation lifts, putting more volume on the lacking arm. Nothing seems to even them out, not sure how I could change this program up to address that issue unless I switched some exercises over to dumbbells where my arms act as a main accessory muscle.

    On the side, as an athlete I tend to want to focus on improving more performance aspects such as sprint speed, vertical jump, broad jump and other pylo movements. Would side-projects/workouts based on improving the above as well as unorthodox-ed MMA training methods cut into the recovery and effectiveness of the program? If so, are there ways to work around it?

    Anyway, that should be it for now, hopefully. Thanks in advance and I am enjoying this new program.

  2. #2
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Canada, British Columbia
    Good Luck :O
    Weight: 165lbs

    Lifts: [Currently]
    BP: 205lbs(Goal:235lbs)
    Deads: 325lbs(Goal: 400lbs)
    Squats:275lbs(Goal: 300lbs)

  3. #3
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Cambridge, England
    Hey I am rushed for time, but in short I think your current goal is a good goal (getting sub 10%) and you can achieve it on this routine.

    I wouldn;t stress about the calorie calculations, just do it, pick something that feels right (you have previous experience of counting calories to go by) and stick with it for 4 weeks with say 3 x 30 min cardios and see how your weight goes. If you are consistent, It'll then just be a case of lowering calories and upping activity over time to get you close to your goal.

    My only other suggestion would to be to do the split that requires less days as you're gonna need to start doing a fair bit of cardio and it might bre easier with less weight training days.

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  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    It's hard to know where to start - if I'm confused then that's not a good thing! I'm not sure what exactly you're asking but I'll give it a go.

    Firstly your statement about current and previous calorie intake shows a lack of consistency - this'll need to change to reach any goal.
    BMR (basal metabolic rate) is not what my article spits out - it gives you the BMR+activity+thermic effect of food etc. BMR is the calorie intake that keeps you alive if you were lying still.
    My calculations spit out target bodyweight at approx 10% bf.
    The figures I gave for maximum LBM gain per year and fat loss per year are reasonable, not sustainable and not concurrent.

    With that out of the way let's look at your goals - simply you want to more than halve your body fat and increase your lean body mass by more than 10% in the first 6 months and by another 20% in the following 12 months whilst maintaining that near contest ready 8% bf.

    That is not going to happen. At least not at the same time.

    You currently have an LBM of 154lbs.

    To hit your first goal of 188lbs @ 8% (174lbs LBM) would mean simultaneously gaining 20lbs LBM whilst losing 26lbs of fat.

    Then you plan on maintaining 8%bf and gaining another 14lbs of lbm in the next 6 months and another 20lbs the 6 months after for a total of 54lbs lbm gained whilst maintaining a very low bf percentage.

    You don't say how tall you are but if you're anywhere under 6ft then your end goal of 225lbs @ 8% is going to be very impressive and the preserve of very few natural athletes, all of them bodybuilders and all of them with years and years of consitent training and eating. Take a look at pictures of Alan Cress, Jeff Willet etc and ask yourself is it realistic to hit that level of size and conditioning in 18 months.

    Check out Alan's contest log here, it includes pics at various comparable weights and bodyfat -!!

    My point is that you intend to better Alan's physique in 18 months and train MMA and all associated training aspects. I can't tell you your goals but how about picking a goal of 180lbs using the article and see where you go from there. That's 8lbm gained and approx 20lbs fat lost. If you do that quicker than 6 months, then aim for the next goal, 188lbs.
    Last edited by Daniel Roberts; 05-21-2010 at 05:12 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    As for your arms and imbalances - how long have you been lifting for? Have you picked up any injuries,been seen by anyone, diagnosed with any pathologies? You say you're pulling 400lbs+ so I can't assume you're a beginner, because what I normally adivse anyone with left to right discrepancies is to just train, they will even out because most everyone has them to some degree - due to handedness etc.

    I'm glad you like the program and do feel free to ask more questions but be more specific because I may have missed out some key points you needed addressed simply because the questions were hard to distinguish from the rest of your text.

  6. #6
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Sorry, here is some information I probably should have included and thanks for the detailed response.

    Stats-Wise: I am 20 yrs old, ~6'1"(6'3" in most shoes) with a wingspan of 75" .

    I have been working out for almost two years,(two years in August), I started at 145lbs and actually reached 200lbs within the first 8 months of lifting, cut down to 183lbs by the start of September and went back to 207lbs through the course of Winter before cutting back down to 198lbs at 19.7% bf(which my goal calculations are based on), which is how I originally came to the 188lbs 8% bf goal since it would take me from 159lbs LBM and 39lbs Fat to 173lbs LBM(+14) and 15lbs Fat(-24) for a realistic six-eight month goal(or more perhaps).

    But what it boils down to, I want to lose most of the bodyfat that was gained from the sudden increases in weight from the previous two bulks but the whole cutting regimen of taking BMR of 193lbs and subtracting 10% just isn't going as well in terms of providing energy and overall well-being as possibly following the idea that you stated in your nutritional article which would place me in a slight deficit if I based it on the 188lbs 8% bf goal by just multiplying 188x16. The main question is, what keeps me from eating to 188lbs 15% bf instead of 188lbs 8% bf.

    So I found this calculator right here that would factor in the bodyfat percentage,, which states that at 188lbs and 8%, to maintain at a very active level would have to intake ~3560 calories. So I am confused where to place my calorie goal? Traditionally it is said that you can't gain muscle and lose fat at the same time but if there was a diet pattern which would result in losing fat first and then gaining lean body mass, that would be good.

    But pretty much I need to find a goal and stick to it, which the original 2.5k-2.7k calorie goal was the original plan, but the dieting just made me so sick and fatigued that there has to be something I am doing wrong, maybe I underestimated my calories greatly.
    Last edited by Trepkos01; 05-21-2010 at 12:57 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    The main question is, what keeps me from eating to 188lbs 15% bf instead of 188lbs 8% bf.
    You! And the fact that the equations I used have a target bodyfat of approx 10%. Anyway back to you, there is no one perfect formula that perfectly fits everyone, but if you multiply target bodyweight by 19 for high activity as in my article you get 3572kcal, if you use the calculator you posted for high activity you get 3560kcal.

    So exactly the same calorie intake. either way you're going to have to adjust up or down based on progress - same as anyone else.
    I don't think at your bodyfat level you should be viewing yourself as 'high activity' but only you know that. either way, pick a calorie intake and adjust as you go on (in small increments and only every two weeks if needed) - if you do as much training as you say you do, train with weights also and are consistent with diet you will lose fat fast and gain muscle and strength as every beginner in your position inevitably does when they first apply themselves consistently.
    Good luck.

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