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Thread: HIT Routine

  1. #1
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    HIT Routine

    Alright, so I'm considering trying an HIT routine which looks something like this:

    Monday:
    *Dips 1x15
    *Fly Machine 1x15
    *Flat DB's 1x15
    *Incline DB's 1x15
    *Military Press 1x15
    *French Presses 1x15
    *Chins 1x12
    *Bent Over Rows 2x12
    *Deadlifts 1x12
    *Shrugs 1x12
    *Lateral Raises 1x12
    *Rear Raises 1x12
    *Hammer Curl 1x12
    *Preacher Curl 1x12
    *Abs w/ Cable 1x20
    *Calf Raises 1x20

    Thursday:
    *Leg Ext. 1x15
    *Hip Ext. (pre-exaust the glutes?) 1x20
    *Squat 2x15
    *Leg Curl 1x15
    *SLDL 1x15
    *Calf Raises 2x20
    *Abs w/ Cable 2x20
    *Leg Raise 2x20

    Each week I choose a major exercise to take beyond failure with negs or dropped sets (maybe not if I don't feel like it). And every 8 weeks or so I'll take 7-10 days off and rotate the rep scheme.

    I realize this is a lot of volume for one day, but it's not a lot per muscle group (about 4-5 sets per muscle group). But I dunno, what do you guys think, too much to do in one day?

    Do you guys like the order of my upperbody routine? I tried to follow a push/pull pre-exaustion scheme, much like I would on a push/pull split, with upper arm isolation at the end. Does this look right or with HIT should I maybe move the major back work up with the chest to make the intensity higher?

    Also, what's the concensus on low volume, very low intensity workouts (almost like slowww warmup sets) 72-96 hours following a high intensity workout. I ask because I read on cyberpump somewhere that if a muscle isn't worked again within 96 hours, its newly gained size and strength begins to be lost. The recent trend (with HST and such) seems to follow that train of thought. I would still get 6 days rest before hitting the muscles again with high intensity. What're your thoughts on that?

    All help is appreciated, Thanks.

  2. #2
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    If you're asking if that workout you posted is the optimal way to gain size or strength, or avoid overtraining, than the answer is no. However, I'm sure you have your reasons for designing it as such, so do what you are going to enjoy.

  3. #3
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    Well then, what could I do to optimize it? Less volume?

    The reason I designed this routine is because I looked high and low for a complete HIT routine and couldn't find one that suited me. Just a bunch of theory.

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    Why the attraction to HIT in the first place? It's a flawed method IMO.

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    Oh also, if I decide to keep the volume, is there anything I could do to ready my body for that kind of stress? I mean is there anything I could maybe add to my diet on the workout days to pump up my glycogen(?) stores? I heard carbs pre-workout is no good because it inhibits GH, that's why BBers take their pre-workout creatine without any sugar.. but I read that in a muscle mag, so it's probably not relative to me, right?

  6. #6
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    "Why the attraction to HIT in the first place? It's a flawed method IMO."

    Basically I think I've hit a plateau in my training and I think it's because my intensity isn't all there.. I think that a new routine is what I need to kickstart things again. I've taken about a week off and I'm ready to go again.

    I've been eager to push my limits of failure also, and this seems a good excuse to try.

  7. #7
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    I would try HST - you'll get much better results. If you know your 15RM, 10RM and 5RM's for your excersises you're primed to start, because you've already had the week off.

  8. #8
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    I am also doing HIT and i am absolutely sure you will end up totally overtrained. Check out www.cyberpump.com
    Go to Training/ HIT FAQ - there you will find help.

    cu

  9. #9
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    You know, I was all ready to.. made a chart and everything.. I noticed your posts about it when I was trying to find info about it. I got excited by that thread when monstar and a few other guys decided to give it a go, but got bummed out when he dropped it in his journal. I noticed a few guys ask if it's really all it's hyped up to be and almost nobody gave any responces, good or bad. That bummed me out too.

    I've got a couple issues with it, one being the schedule. See, my gf uses my car all day to work and sometimes she stays late. If I miss a session, does that mess things up much, or is it really no biggie to jump 20lbs the next day I can go..

    And I work out at a gym with some pretty big guys.. I would feel a little funny putting 20lbs on each side for the bench on my first day of 15's.. I'm not much of an ego lifter, but come on, every man has his limits

  10. #10
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    you can skip days, just pick up where you left off... as for the ego thing, nothing I can do to help you with that. I just don't care about that stuff. Besides, most super-huge guys I see lift pretty light most of the time, especially for their size.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Accipiter's Avatar
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    That's not HIT.........

  12. #12
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    Accipter makes a good point, you really need to cut back on the exercises to really make it HIT, like 5 or 6 really is all you need, at most maybe 8 a day.
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  13. #13
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    I think you should give the routine you designed a try. It will work well for you. Personally, I think that HST will not lead to better results than the routine you have outlined. Give it a shot a let us know how you do.

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    Thanks everybody for the replys.

    Alright, I had second thoughts about the volume, but I'm gonna give it a go and see if I can handle it. See, I try and I try, but there's nothing I can bear to take out of my routine. I love every one of those exercises. I'll just try it for about 8 weeks. If I decide to stick with it, I'll post my strength gains, just for sake of reference.

    One question though, regarding a true HIT routine.. Isn't part of the idea of doing a full-body workout that you'll be able to do another one within 3-5 days? In the HIT FAQ it suggests beginners hit the whole body 3x/week. Is this really optimal for gains or what? If so, should I maybe do followup upperbody workouts (50% intensity bench, dead, row) durring my leg day, and vice-versa? Would this a problem with regards to progressive overload? Thanks in advance for any help on this one.

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    I think you should give the routine you designed a try. It will work well for you. Personally, I think that HST will not lead to better results than the routine you have outlined. Give it a shot a let us know how you do.
    Have you ever tried HST? Have you ever looked into the science behind it?

    I have both tried and researched HIT. It is quite possibly the most flawed system still in use today.

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    wannabephil, doing a full-body HIT routine three times a week might work to begin with. However, it will most certainly lead to the overtraining of the CNS if given enough time (probably within the first 3-4 weeks). Going to failure on only one set, also won't create maximal amounts of hypertrophy. It has always been my opinion that several sets of close to failure are better than one to complete failure. Atleast look into HST before you count it out. I'd also do some research into muscle/cns physiology. This will give you the knowledge you need to create your own workout regimen.

    weightrainner.virtualave.net is a good start!

  17. #17
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    *wannabephil, doing a full-body HIT routine three times a week *might work to begin with. However, it will most certainly lead to *the overtraining of the CNS if given enough time (probably *within the first 3-4 weeks).

    Whabout one hard and one not hard day per week? I've heard of this before but never read anything serious about it. Anyone got opinions about this?

    "should I maybe do followup upperbody workouts (50% intensity bench, dead, row) durring my leg day, and vice-versa?"

  18. #18
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    WannabePhil, HIT does not necessarily dictate that you train 3 days, or even 2 days per week. That is a very common misconception. One of the primary principles of HIT is recovery . The whole thing about overtraining one's CNS is another huge myth. Yes, everyone is different, and that is the point. At you current level of development, a HIT program is most likely the best program for you. You should train as often as your recovery ability allows. You may find that you can only train once every 5 days, 7 days, and so on, in order to continue to progress. You may also find you can train once every 3 days, it just depends on your unique chemistry. The reason people like Logo believe that the CNS will be quickly overtrained on a HIT program is because they don't properly apply the recovery principle I am referring to. I have trained with high intensity and low volume for over 14 years, and I still have functional adrenals and a functional CNS . Anyway, give it a go and let us know.

  19. #19
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Logo
    wannabephil, doing a full-body HIT routine three times a week might work to begin with. However, it will most certainly lead to the overtraining of the CNS if given enough time (probably within the first 3-4 weeks). Going to failure on only one set, also won't create maximal amounts of hypertrophy. It has always been my opinion that several sets of close to failure are better than one to complete failure. Atleast look into HST before you count it out. I'd also do some research into muscle/cns physiology. This will give you the knowledge you need to create your own workout regimen.

    weightrainner.virtualave.net is a good start!

    I hate these kind of statements (ok hate is a strong word, maybe dislike). Tell me exactly how physiology dictates that HIT is a flawed system. If you are able to come up with something, it will most likely be due to a misconception, or lack of understanding of HIT, not due to a flaw in HIT.

  20. #20
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    First of all there are many factors that can cause failure, most of which are beyond the scope of a message board post. Generally, working to failure means that type IIB fibers have been recruited to their fullest potential. This takes a large toll on the central nervous system. Unless you are genetically blessed, this will take anywhere from about 6-9 days to fully recover from. However, your muscles will have healed and fully supercompensated within 36-72 hours. If you wait longer than this period of time you increase your chances of experiencing slight atrophy. At the very least, you are putting off progress. However, if you have a session immediately after this period of time, your cns hasn't fully recovered. Therefore, you are only digging the hole deeper. Like I stated before, why only do one set to failure when you can achieve more hypertrophy and recover faster with two sets close to failure? I am, in no way, trying to attack you chris. I am just stating that physiologically speaking, HIT doesn't make much sense to me.
    Last edited by Logo; 05-08-2002 at 03:06 PM.

  21. #21
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    BTW, I never stated that you will always overtrain the CNS while on HIT. I simply stated that training everything three times a week will definately overtrain the CNS eventually. That is, of course, unless you are using A/S.

  22. #22
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Logo
    First of all there are many factors that can cause failure, most of which are beyond the scope of a message board post. Generally, working to failure means that type IIB fibers have been recruited to their fullest potential. This takes a large toll on the central nervous system. Unless you are genetically blessed, this will take anywhere from about 6-9 days to fully recover from. However, your muscles will have healed and fully supercompensated within 36-72 hours. If you wait longer than this period of time you increase your chances of experiencing slight atrophy. At the very least, you are putting off progress. However, if you have a session immediately after this period of time, your cns hasn't fully recovered. Therefore, you are only digging the hole deeper. Like I stated before, why only do one set to failure when you can achieve more hypertrophy and recover faster with two sets close to failure? I am, in no way, trying to attack you chris. I am just stating that physiologically speaking, HIT doesn't make much sense to me.


    I didn't think you were attacking me. I think discussion is a good thing.

    Ok, first, to state that the CNS will take 6-9 days to fully recover from training to failure, and muscles will supercompensate with 36-72 hours is incorrect. It is way too general of a statement, thus it is not the foundation for a valid argument. Second, you stated that HIT will work for some period of time. If you believe that to be true, then your statements about recovery make no sense. If HIT is working, it means the training it growing and getting stronger. If one trains without allowing for CNS recovery, then not much in the way of strength gains will occur. So, you need to pick a side, either it does or does not work.

    HIT also does not necessarily dictate that only one set be performed to failure. Now, Mike Mentzer, in the later years of his life, decided that one set to failure was best, but Mike Mentzer was not the only advocate of HIT training, in fact, he was not the pioneer. Mike Mentzer had his own brand of HIT, called Heavy Duty training. Other advocates of HIT training, including myself, have never recommended one set to failure. For some it works, but most trainees require additional volume.

    Now, back to your assertation about putting off progress. Myself, and quite a few others I have trained or trained with over the years have made excellent progress for prolonged periods utilizing HIT principles of training to failure, infrequently, and with low volume. If your statements were accurate, this would simply have not occured.

    You do have a point concerning CNS recovery and muscular recovery occuring at different rates. I have been experimenting with a new style of training which incorporates HIT training interspersed with sub-maximal sessions. I feel that HIT principles are optimal for the vast majority of trainees until they reach a advanced level of relative development. For advanced trainees, I now feel that mixing in sub-optimal workouts to address the CNS/muscle recovery issue is best.

    One last thing, why do you feel that stopping a set "very near" to failure (I assume you mean within 1-2 reps) taxes the CNS to a significantly different degree than training to failure does? In my opinion, it does not, thus making your argument invalid.

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by Logo
    wannabephil, doing a full-body HIT routine three times a week might work to begin with. However, it will most certainly lead to the overtraining of the CNS if given enough time (probably within the first 3-4 weeks).
    Just wanted to note that you did state that HIT would quickly lead to overtraining the CNS.

  24. #24
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    Originally posted by chris mason

    Ok, first, to state that the CNS will take 6-9 days to fully recover from training to failure, and muscles will supercompensate with 36-72 hours is incorrect. It is way too general of a statement, thus it is not the foundation for a valid argument. Second, you stated that HIT will work for some period of time. If you believe that to be true, then your statements about recovery make no sense. If HIT is working, it means the training it growing and getting stronger. If one trains without allowing for CNS recovery, then not much in the way of strength gains will occur. So, you need to pick a side, either it does or does not work.


    First of all, a few things need to be clarified.

    CNS overtraining is a matter of neural accomodation to the movement, in terms of intermuscular coordination. The neurological stress caused by training to failure (ie, intramuscular coordination) doesn't involve the CNS to any appreciable degree. That being said, there is still a neural component to be considered.

    Now, back to your assertation about putting off progress. Myself, and quite a few others I have trained or trained with over the years have made excellent progress for prolonged periods utilizing HIT principles of training to failure, infrequently, and with low volume. If your statements were accurate, this would simply have not occured.


    Intensive training works; no doubt about it. Extensive training (higher volume, higher reps) also works.

    You do have a point concerning CNS recovery and muscular recovery occuring at different rates. I have been experimenting with a new style of training which incorporates HIT training interspersed with sub-maximal sessions. I feel that HIT principles are optimal for the vast majority of trainees until they reach a advanced level of relative development. For advanced trainees, I now feel that mixing in sub-optimal workouts to address the CNS/muscle recovery issue is best.


    Its all going to depend on the individual's recovery ability, more than anything. As I've always stated, I feel that alternating periods with intensive methods of training (HIT style) with periods using extensive methods of training (higher volume, not to failure; my traditional style of training) can be a great benefit to anyone, regardless of training age.

    One last thing, why do you feel that stopping a set "very near" to failure (I assume you mean within 1-2 reps) taxes the CNS to a significantly different degree than training to failure does? In my opinion, it does not, thus making your argument invalid.


    Well, its going to depend on the cause of failure. Assuming that its a straight case of muscular fatigue, then that failure rep is where the neural stress is going to come into its own as the motor units begin to fail and the higher-threshold units begin to come into play.
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    chris, give me an example where training to failure in the weight and rep ranges that HIT uses doesn't require atleast 6 days for full cns recovery. Excepting cases where reps are extremely high and the weight is very low, the cns will be taxed fairly hard. I never said that you couldn't make good progress using HIT principles. My point was that there were flaws in its philosophy. I also think that one could make better progress using a different system. Also, I was using the one set to failure statement as an argument advocating that more sets close to failure are usually more optimal in terms of hypertrophy than fewer sets to complete failure.
    Last edited by Logo; 05-09-2002 at 08:02 AM.

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