The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Please Help with diet (cut)

    Hello everyone!
    I am 5 8" and 155lbs (should be around 10-11%bf) and I have got back in shape from last summer. Now it's been a few months I've hit the gym (i do 4 times a week) and I have got ok/good results. The only thing that is obsessing me is the abs! I have a "shy" 4 pack, they're slowly improving.... I haven't got a lot of body fat, but it's almost all concentrated under the belly button area, and it seems like it's never going away from there! I'm getting crazy!
    So I wanted to ask you if I am doing something wrong!

    I do cardio 25 min before workout and 25 min after workout (treadmill / biky) at a moderately high pace (I burn around 200 kcal in 25 min on the bike, can't remember on the treadmill).

    I never counted calories before but with all the formulas you find to calculate your maintenance level, i got 2700 which i've been told is too much for me (given my stats).

    I wanna get rid of that last bit of fat on the stomach and finally get a 6 pack to show !

    What do you think my diet should be like? How many calories should I have for cutting? When I though I needed to stay around 2200 for cutting I wrote my daily intake and it came out that I was eating around 1600-1700kcal and I even though I was eating much!

    But if my maintenance level was really at 2700 I should have virtually no fat now being almost 1000kcal in deficit every day!

    I have whey protein i can use to substitute some food (for what concerns protein source) cause I'm on a strict budget for the food.

    My general day is:

    breakfast:
    - Organic Oats or (muesly with nuts, pieces of dried apples and raisins): 40-50gr
    semi skimmed milk 0.5% or yogurt 1.5 or 3% fat (to eat with the muesly / oats)
    - 2 protein pancakes (egg whites, oats, proteins powder, little milk). I added this cause I thought it'd be too few calories at the end of the day if I didn't have this.

    snack:
    Protein shake (1 scoop ON)

    Lunch:

    100-150gr pasta with 120-150 homemade ragý (meat sauce, with carrots, onions, celary, cucumber, peppers, and some extravirgin olive oil).

    Or

    Salad with tomatoes, tuna, mais, pieces of chicken breast (I though about this for when i go back to college in september)

    snack:
    Pre work out shake (ON protein q scoop+ 30gr oats)

    snack:
    post workout shake (ON protein 1 scoop)

    Dinner:
    Chicken (100-150gr) + brown rice + beans + veggies (sometime sweet potatoes (2) instead of rice)

    Bedtime snack (sometimes)
    Casein 1 scoop.

    I'm looking forward to hear from you guys!
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    Last edited by maeishoj; 07-11-2011 at 03:45 AM.

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  3. #2
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Here's what's going to happen in this thread. A slew of people are going to come in and tell you you're crazy for wanting to cut. Though I mostly agree because you are very lean it's still an individual decision. If you really would rather have better abs more than more muscle that's your decision. If you do still want to diet just approach it knowing that you don't need to from where you're at.

    As far as making the diet work most of what you posted is irrelevant if you don't count your calories. Do that first consistently or any other recommendation is a mostly moot point. Start conservative and eat 300 or 400 below your calculated maintenance and track your weight for a few weeks. Let us know what happens.
    Last edited by Behemoth; 07-11-2011 at 09:25 AM.
    accuflex - LOLZZZZ!!!11one1!! SOEM PPL WORK THRE ARMZ!!!!11!! LETS KILL THEM111

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  4. #3
    House Lannister
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    You are about the condition I started training seriously in in terms of leanness, muscle mass, etc. Better balance tho.

    If I were you, I would buy a food scale and measure everything consistently. I did that for over a year and results were pretty outstanding b/c you know nearly exactly what/how much you are eating. Some will think that's OCD, I call it focused.

    Up to you on the cut. If I were you, I'd go look at the leangains.com site and see some of their transformations. Lot of guys went to skinny to skinny-ripped. Some look good, others look terrible, even if they have abs. It's your decision.

    Also might want to look at it practically. Are you from a warm area? Do you go swimming/shirtless a lot? Is anyone going to notice 8 weeks of hard work to attain abdominal definition?

    You could probably see a lot more definition if you went and got a tan as well. I'd do that then make up your mind.

  5. #4
    Rob Schilke | GFX Designer thecityalive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevelle2291 View Post
    Some will think that's OCD, I call it focused.
    brilliant
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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    Here's what's going to happen in this thread. A slew of people are going to come in and tell you you're crazy for wanting to cut. Though I mostly agree because you are very lean it's still an individual decision. If you really would rather have better abs more than more muscle that's your decision. If you do still want to diet just approach it knowing that you don't need to from where you're at.

    As far as making the diet work most of what you posted is irrelevant if you don't count your calories. Do that first consistently or any other recommendation is a mostly moot point. Start conservative and eat 300 or 400 below your calculated maintenance and track your weight for a few weeks. Let us know what happens.
    Hey man! first of all thanks for your comment! I am just inserting customized food in fitday in order to post it here later. Concerning the scale i just got it today So i'm ready to start!

    I did calculate (with different formulas) my maintenance level of calories and it always resultes in ca 2600 cal.
    So Should I eat around 2200 for starting ? I am gonna try put on some mass in september october (when i'll start college again).. My only problem is that I am a student studying abroad, living with my gf (who's also studying) and our budget is pretty restricted, and bulking would require eating like double of what I'm eating at the moment! But after all I miss 1 and 1/2 year to finish my bachelor

    So I'll attach a screenshot from fitday when i'm done ok?
    I really appreciate your help guys and looking forward anyway to hear from you!

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevelle2291 View Post
    You are about the condition I started training seriously in in terms of leanness, muscle mass, etc. Better balance tho.

    If I were you, I would buy a food scale and measure everything consistently. I did that for over a year and results were pretty outstanding b/c you know nearly exactly what/how much you are eating. Some will think that's OCD, I call it focused.

    Up to you on the cut. If I were you, I'd go look at the leangains.com site and see some of their transformations. Lot of guys went to skinny to skinny-ripped. Some look good, others look terrible, even if they have abs. It's your decision.

    Also might want to look at it practically. Are you from a warm area? Do you go swimming/shirtless a lot? Is anyone going to notice 8 weeks of hard work to attain abdominal definition?

    You could probably see a lot more definition if you went and got a tan as well. I'd do that then make up your mind.
    Hey man! Well, I'm from a warm area (Italy-Tuscany) but i'm living in north Europe with my gf (Denmark).
    So now, there's not gonna be a lot of time with awesome weather, don't swim in the sea here, or be often shirtless.. I mean sometimes, but nothing that would make all that worth it.
    The thing is that I don't really do it for show off, it's just that I've never had a 6 pack. I've always been a little chubby and now it's a challenge between me and the abs, it's obsessing me! cause while I got ok results some places, there it seems never to happen! it might just take longer :/
    Also for you, as i said in the previous message i'm gonna put a screenshot of fitday later (and yes i did buy a scale)

  8. #7
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maeishoj View Post
    Hey man! first of all thanks for your comment! I am just inserting customized food in fitday in order to post it here later. Concerning the scale i just got it today So i'm ready to start!

    I did calculate (with different formulas) my maintenance level of calories and it always resultes in ca 2600 cal.
    So Should I eat around 2200 for starting ? I am gonna try put on some mass in september october (when i'll start college again).. My only problem is that I am a student studying abroad, living with my gf (who's also studying) and our budget is pretty restricted, and bulking would require eating like double of what I'm eating at the moment! But after all I miss 1 and 1/2 year to finish my bachelor

    So I'll attach a screenshot from fitday when i'm done ok?
    I really appreciate your help guys and looking forward anyway to hear from you!
    Sounds like a good plan of attack to me.
    accuflex - LOLZZZZ!!!11one1!! SOEM PPL WORK THRE ARMZ!!!!11!! LETS KILL THEM111

    "You can fake effort with grunts and clanging weights but quiet, consistent hard work coupled with gradual strength increases earns universal respect in gyms" - Steve Colescott



    I'd rather Situation be a member of this board. -Joey54

  9. #8
    Wannabebig Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    Sounds like a good plan of attack to me.
    Here it is.. (the food was in order from breakfast to dinner but then I forgot the pre workout shake + oats so I put it in the end).

    Please guys help me out, tell me what you think is wrong, what I should change and what I should add/remove.
    For what I saw I'm a little low on fats and I'd like to get soem more protein (perhaps some tuna and cottage cheese)?

    Furthermore I thought about reintroducing pancakes (just 1 simple with cottage cheese oats banana an a scoop of whey).. It'd give me those extra protein i need and not crazy amount of calories. Do you think I should stay under 2000 for cutting (remember 5 8" - 155lbs, 23 years old). I do whey lifting 4 times a week and cardio in those days (now i started to do cardio 6 days a week).

    Also about the cardio, should it be done HIGH intensity for shredding or low intensity? cause on the treadmill it says low intensity = fat burning - high intensity = cardio..

    Looking forward to hear from you.

    Edit: Ops guys, something I never took into account, EVER, is the extra virgin olive oil i use when I cook / put in the salad. It's freaking caloric and fattening (despite is good fats).
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    Last edited by maeishoj; 07-11-2011 at 01:22 PM.

  10. #9
    House Lannister
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    Quote Originally Posted by maeishoj View Post
    Here it is.. (the food was in order from breakfast to dinner but then I forgot the pre workout shake + oats so I put it in the end).

    Please guys help me out, tell me what you think is wrong, what I should change and what I should add/remove.
    For what I saw I'm a little low on fats and I'd like to get soem more protein (perhaps some tuna and cottage cheese)?

    Furthermore I thought about reintroducing pancakes (just 1 simple with cottage cheese oats banana an a scoop of whey).. It'd give me those extra protein i need and not crazy amount of calories. Do you think I should stay under 2000 for cutting (remember 5 8" - 155lbs, 23 years old). I do whey lifting 4 times a week and cardio in those days (now i started to do cardio 6 days a week).

    Also about the cardio, should it be done HIGH intensity for shredding or low intensity? cause on the treadmill it says low intensity = fat burning - high intensity = cardio..

    Looking forward to hear from you.

    Edit: Ops guys, something I never took into account, EVER, is the extra virgin olive oil i use when I cook / put in the salad. It's freaking caloric and fattening (despite is good fats).
    First off, I'm just going to stay that I just finished my FIRST cut, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I would defer to Behemoth's advice on everything diet related over anything I tell you here. I dislike people who give out advice without telling where they are coming from, so now you know.

    Under 2,000 is very low to start a cut on, especially with how lean you already are. I would up the calories significantly to start out. An exact number, I don't know. If I were you I would just eat regularly while weighing everything you eat for a while (a week) and see how many calories you are eating to maintain. I have a feeling we could boost your calories quite a bit from under 2k.

    Last thing you want to do is shut down your metabolism right at the beginning of a cut because calories are too low.

    Remember, this is going to be an 8-10 process to get pretty lean, no reason to rush into cardio or drastically cuting calories so soon. You have to look at it as a marathon, not a sprint, or you can say byebye to muscle mass if you drop cals too quickly and up the cardio way too much.

    From what you have posted, I'd increase fats to 50-60 g, protein to 1-1.5g x BW in pounds (I prefer 1.5, but that's a preference thing), and fill in rest with carbs. BUT, that is what I would do, not necessarily what you should do. You are going to have to experiment with what works best for you.

  11. #10
    Professional hobbit Focused70's Avatar
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    Legs look thick as a brick shithouse.

    Holy moly.
    Last edited by Focused70; 07-11-2011 at 02:50 PM.
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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevelle2291 View Post
    First off, I'm just going to stay that I just finished my FIRST cut, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I would defer to Behemoth's advice on everything diet related over anything I tell you here. I dislike people who give out advice without telling where they are coming from, so now you know.

    Under 2,000 is very low to start a cut on, especially with how lean you already are. I would up the calories significantly to start out. An exact number, I don't know. If I were you I would just eat regularly while weighing everything you eat for a while (a week) and see how many calories you are eating to maintain. I have a feeling we could boost your calories quite a bit from under 2k.

    Last thing you want to do is shut down your metabolism right at the beginning of a cut because calories are too low.

    Remember, this is going to be an 8-10 process to get pretty lean, no reason to rush into cardio or drastically cuting calories so soon. You have to look at it as a marathon, not a sprint, or you can say byebye to muscle mass if you drop cals too quickly and up the cardio way too much.

    From what you have posted, I'd increase fats to 50-60 g, protein to 1-1.5g x BW in pounds (I prefer 1.5, but that's a preference thing), and fill in rest with carbs. BUT, that is what I would do, not necessarily what you should do. You are going to have to experiment with what works best for you.
    Thanks man, I hope the others will comment something too. But I guess I'll add 50-60grams of fat, higher little protein and try to stay around 2200-2300kcal. hm?

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevelle2291 View Post
    If I were you, I would buy a food scale and measure everything consistently.
    I just did this so i can measure food out at my desk - It's been working great.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Focused70 View Post
    Legs look thick as a brick shithouse.

    Holy moly.
    this being a compliment?
    Anyway I've always had big musclar legs (played soccer my whole life), but now they got little slimmer and very quite lean. I am sure that If I'd shave the legs they'd look much more muscular.

  15. #14
    Wannabebig Member ozmarc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maeishoj View Post
    Thanks man, I hope the others will comment something too. But I guess I'll add 50-60grams of fat, higher little protein and try to stay around 2200-2300kcal. hm?
    I agree, I would work in bumping up both your fats (at least 50-60g) and Protein (at least 200-200g) and lowering your carbs slightly. As your progress on your cut you can continue to lower carbs to further reduce calories (only if needed). In general this is the approach that has worked best for me in the past.

    Generally I find stacking carbs around my workout has worked best for me (pre = starchy + simple, post = simple), as well as at breakfast = starchy. Other times of the day I'll let my meals consist of just protein, fats and plenty on fibious non-starchy type vegies. Having said that, its not a one fits all approach, you need to workout what really works for you.

    On to your cardio question, I've tried both HIIT and LISS cardio. First time I went on a cut I persisted with HIIT cardio from the outset and found after about 6-8weeks my weight loss stalled and really had no where to go. Next time around I implemented a LISS type morning cardio approach 3 times a week, on OFF weight days for around 8 weeks. Once this started to stall, I switched to a HIIT and LISS appraoch cardio, HIIT 1-2 times and LISS also a couple of times. I found this not only let me hold onto alot more muscle, but also let me keep my calories significantly higher than the first time around.

    What might also be worth checking out is WBB complexes article http://www.wannabebig.com/training/c...-for-fat-loss/ I think this could be used to very good effect in place of HIIT or even LISS sessions.
    Last edited by ozmarc; 07-11-2011 at 07:38 PM.

  16. #15
    Wannabebig Member ozmarc's Avatar
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    I'll also add to that that both Diet and Weight Training are much more important than actual Cardio! Get these two on track first and Cardio will only need to be done as needed if you want to help accelerate fat loss/time taken to reach your goals. I have no doubt some will even debate whether cardio is even necessary at all.

  17. #16
    Senior Member K-R-M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    Here's what's going to happen in this thread. A slew of people are going to come in and tell you you're crazy for wanting to cut. Though I mostly agree because you are very lean it's still an individual decision. If you really would rather have better abs more than more muscle that's your decision. If you do still want to diet just approach it knowing that you don't need to from where you're at.

    As far as making the diet work most of what you posted is irrelevant if you don't count your calories. Do that first consistently or any other recommendation is a mostly moot point. Start conservative and eat 300 or 400 below your calculated maintenance and track your weight for a few weeks. Let us know what happens.
    Hey Rory, I have a question for you, I remember reading in the wbb article that you cut from 150lbs around 14-15%. Did you cut to a bodyfat% lower than maeishoj is in those pics?

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozmarc View Post
    I agree, I would work in bumping up both your fats (at least 50-60g) and Protein (at least 200-200g) and lowering your carbs slightly. As your progress on your cut you can continue to lower carbs to further reduce calories (only if needed). In general this is the approach that has worked best for me in the past.

    Generally I find stacking carbs around my workout has worked best for me (pre = starchy + simple, post = simple), as well as at breakfast = starchy. Other times of the day I'll let my meals consist of just protein, fats and plenty on fibious non-starchy type vegies. Having said that, its not a one fits all approach, you need to workout what really works for you.

    On to your cardio question, I've tried both HIIT and LISS cardio. First time I went on a cut I persisted with HIIT cardio from the outset and found after about 6-8weeks my weight loss stalled and really had no where to go. Next time around I implemented a LISS type morning cardio approach 3 times a week, on OFF weight days for around 8 weeks. Once this started to stall, I switched to a HIIT and LISS appraoch cardio, HIIT 1-2 times and LISS also a couple of times. I found this not only let me hold onto alot more muscle, but also let me keep my calories significantly higher than the first time around.

    What might also be worth checking out is WBB complexes article http://www.wannabebig.com/training/c...-for-fat-loss/ I think this could be used to very good effect in place of HIIT or even LISS sessions.
    Thanks man! Really appreciate! I'll try to mix it up (the cardio).. The HIIT you did how was it? Was just on the treadmill going fast pace for a minute, slow for 30 sec and loop this for how long time? 20-25min?
    Cause I don't know how to do HIIT, or what types there are..

    If i have to be honest I heard of HIIT but not of LISS.

    Anyway I'll adjust my diet accordingly and I'll stay in touch.
    So thanks for the moment guys! I really appreciate any advise given.

    PS: At the moment I'm following the 12 week transformation by krish gethin (I got from a friend and it's on bb.com).

    After this, I'll need you guys to suggest me and weight lifting training program cause I only did p90x to get back in shape in the beginning and started in the gym doing p90x again in the start, and now this "more bb approach", so i don't really have experience in doing workout schedules

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by maeishoj View Post
    Thanks man! Really appreciate! I'll try to mix it up (the cardio).. The HIIT you did how was it? Was just on the treadmill going fast pace for a minute, slow for 30 sec and loop this for how long time? 20-25min?
    Cause I don't know how to do HIIT, or what types there are..

    If i have to be honest I heard of HIIT but not of LISS.

    Anyway I'll adjust my diet accordingly and I'll stay in touch.
    So thanks for the moment guys! I really appreciate any advise given.

    PS: At the moment I'm following the 12 week transformation by krish gethin (I got from a friend and it's on bb.com).

    After this, I'll need you guys to suggest me and weight lifting training program cause I only did p90x to get back in shape in the beginning and started in the gym doing p90x again in the start, and now this "more bb approach", so i don't really have experience in doing workout schedules
    I would do HCT-12, found at the top of the wannabebig page. Great program.

    It is refreshing to see someone take advice posted in the diet section. However, I would NOT start out with cardio right away.

    Cutting calories>cardio. Cutting calories is more consistent and easier to track. Cardio machines are notoriously inaccurate for calorie burn.

    If I were you, I'd keep calories around 2700 or so for the first couple of weeks and see what happens. If you start gaining, lower it. If you start losing too quickly, bump up the calories.

    At your weight and level of leanness, you do NOT want to be losing 1-1.5 pounds a week, except MAYBE in the first two-four weeks of dieting. I'd aim for .5 pounds or so a week. You will have points where you will stall for long periods before a big drop in weight (whoosh effect), and you will have times where you weigh in heavier.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevelle2291 View Post
    I would do HCT-12, found at the top of the wannabebig page. Great program.

    It is refreshing to see someone take advice posted in the diet section. However, I would NOT start out with cardio right away.

    Cutting calories>cardio. Cutting calories is more consistent and easier to track. Cardio machines are notoriously inaccurate for calorie burn.

    If I were you, I'd keep calories around 2700 or so for the first couple of weeks and see what happens. If you start gaining, lower it. If you start losing too quickly, bump up the calories.

    At your weight and level of leanness, you do NOT want to be losing 1-1.5 pounds a week, except MAYBE in the first two-four weeks of dieting. I'd aim for .5 pounds or so a week. You will have points where you will stall for long periods before a big drop in weight (whoosh effect), and you will have times where you weigh in heavier.
    I really do not care about "the weight" in itself, what I want is to lose that little damn fluffy stomach under the belly button. that's it. I do believe that it might just be a toning issue as well, cause the amount is really not much! and when u loose weight u dont decide where it come off from and i'd definitely dont wanna loose muscles. I'll try that then, thanks. Soon i'll post my fitday screenshot of today!

    PS: how do I upper my fats? Which food can I eat for increasing the fat intake?

    Edit: added screenshot for my day (here in europe is late evening )
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by maeishoj; 07-12-2011 at 02:32 PM.

  21. #20
    House Lannister
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    Quote Originally Posted by maeishoj View Post
    I really do not care about "the weight" in itself, what I want is to lose that little damn fluffy stomach under the belly button. that's it. I do believe that it might just be a toning issue as well, cause the amount is really not much! and when u loose weight u dont decide where it come off from and i'd definitely dont wanna loose muscles. I'll try that then, thanks. Soon i'll post my fitday screenshot of today!

    PS: how do I upper my fats? Which food can I eat for increasing the fat intake?

    Edit: added screenshot for my day (here in europe is late evening )
    Don't say toning again, lol.

    From an arbitrary perspective, that breakdown looks pretty good. Fat looks a little high, but not something to worry about. Most of the time, I keep my fat in the 60-80g range FWIW, but I DO get sleepy when I am in a bulk phase and eating 300+g of carbs per day.

    Protein intake is fine. 1.5g x lb of bw should be plenty.

    Really, all that is important from a fat loss perspective is the actual macronutrient breakdown of your daily intake. Now, I'm NOT saying to just eat fast food every day b/c you'll probably feel like shit if you do, but you shouldn't sweat what you're eating as long as the macros are in order. There are natural bodybuilders getting to 4% bodyfat on pop tarts and ice cream.

    So, just hit 60-80g of fat a day, 1.5xBW in protein (no more, really.), and fill the rest with carbs. Monitor composition and weight for a week or so and see what happens. You may gain a little bit with increased carbs due to water weight, but it's nothing to worry about.

    From there, adjust calories as needed to lose weight. You can also play with different macro breakdowns to see how you feel with increased fats, lowered fats, increased carbs, lower carbs, etc.

    I would NOT do any cardio at this point. Just weigh for a week, monitor the changes, do HCT-12 as written, and see what happens. It is VERY important that you get on a solid training program, no matter bulking or cutting.

    Edit: and again, if Rory comes in here and says "Chevelle2291's advice sucks Mandingo dick," then I'd listen to exactly what he says.

    Oh, and the stickies in my signature would be very helpful to you.
    Last edited by chevelle2291; 07-12-2011 at 06:06 PM.

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