The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Questions from a teenager looking for help

    Long time reader, first time poster just looking for some assistance from many of you with large backgrounds in this area. Seventeen years old, 170 pounds now just beginning to bulk up a little, and 6 feet tall.
    After reading many threads here I began to learn what you put on your fork is as important as what you put on your barbell, and I believe that it was on the reasons for my recent success.
    i have been using mainly large compound exercises with no definite routine.
    Squats, Deads, and Bench on seperate daya, working out every second day with exercises like military press, cleans, pullups, dips, etc.
    A few of my questions are:
    How would I make a scedule incorperating plyometrics and cardio training as hockey season approaches in Sept.?
    What is the difference between hang cleans and power cleans?
    What supplements would be ideal for a teenager?
    What rep ranges, number of sets?
    What is a solid dynamic warmup for both upper and lower body exercise days?

    If anyone could help me with any of these questions, I would greatly appreciate it, thanks so much.
    If you require any more info just ask.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member tom183's Avatar
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    How would I make a scedule incorperating plyometrics and cardio training as hockey season approaches in Sept.?
    When will you start hockey training?

    What is the difference between hang cleans and power cleans?
    http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...HangClean.html

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...fts/Clean.html

    What supplements would be ideal for a teenager?
    Get your diet and routine set first. Then worry about supplements.

    What rep ranges, number of sets?
    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=124795

  4. #3
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    [QUOTE=tom183;2345349]When will you start hockey training?


    Hockey season or hockey training?
    Ive been training for upcoming hockey season for two months already.
    Junior Camp starts in August and I am just looking to put on some size as I am a defenceman,

  5. #4
    Rob Schilke | GFX Designer thecityalive's Avatar
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    A hockey guy...good man. From someone that has played from Squirts to AAA and College, I'll be happy to help.

    As far as incorporating plyo, and cardio- I tend to do these on the lighter leg days (When I do hamstrings basically with my program) or separate days all together. I try to get quick muscles fired right as I get out of a lift, doing hip strides, ladders, dots, broad jumps, etc. When I was your age, I worked on a three day lift schedule with 2 days of plyo. Monday, Wednesday, Friday were for lifting tues and thurs were for plyo (Gotta love Russian trainers that work for Turcotte). I enjoyed morning regiments just cause as 18 year old in the summer, I had all the energy for the rest of the day and no body wants to miss night life as a teenager in the summer.

    But to legit answer your question, you can really do it however you want. It's very important to keep your agility up during the off season, so whenever you can fit plyo/ cardio in, do it. Just keep track of workload. You don't want to over do it. Perhaps try my old high school skeleton and keep it down to three days of lifting with dryland 2 days.

    Hang cleans are positioned on the distal part of the quad (near the bottom), Power cleans start at the floor with your shins to the bar hands just a little more than hip width. Both good for explosion, and very similar. Hang clean was used for quickness where as power clean was coached as a +weight explosive exercise. During hockey, I favored the hang - hang clean kept my legs quick, especially when I was running a 4.4. and sub 49 400m. As far as muscle targeting, again, similar zones, calves, quads, glutes, lower back, traps, forearms.

    Whey protein is always good. Check out the stock at AtLargeNutrition! You are on the brink of adulthood, so you could start taking a pre workout drink or something. I have no clear answer on this.

    Reps/ sets: Hmm, this is tough, when I was in high school hockey, and even now in college, I wanted to be big. Granted I was only 5'9" and nearly 160 without my gear on, but I strived for power and quickness in the weight room - the endurance came with cardio and skating. If it wasn't for the standing jammer machine, I wouldn't have been able to knock 6'5" people on their asses like I did at Saline. Work that power and you will see it in your stride and hear it in your edge. Nothing better than freshly sharpened skates and the sound of you carving hell into the ice. --- 6-8 reps and around 3-4 sets.

    When I was introduced to the dot drill, I loved it as a warm up. SMR for upper and lower body is pretty important too.

    Here is a link to the upper body and lower body articles:
    http://www.wannabebig.com/training/i...-body-warm-up/
    http://www.wannabebig.com/training/i...r-performance/

    Oh, and if you don't have a massage roller, get one.
    My road to powerlifting:
    ===thecityalive is dead meat===
    Current RAW PRs:
    Bench: 255 (9/30/13)
    Dead: 515 (9/2/13)
    Squat: 435 (9/26/13)
    Total: 1205 lbs.
    twitter @thecityalive

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecityalive View Post
    A hockey guy...good man. From someone that has played from Squirts to AAA and College, I'll be happy to help.

    As far as incorporating plyo, and cardio- I tend to do these on the lighter leg days (When I do hamstrings basically with my program) or separate days all together. I try to get quick muscles fired right as I get out of a lift, doing hip strides, ladders, dots, broad jumps, etc. When I was your age, I worked on a three day lift schedule with 2 days of plyo. Monday, Wednesday, Friday were for lifting tues and thurs were for plyo (Gotta love Russian trainers that work for Turcotte). I enjoyed morning regiments just cause as 18 year old in the summer, I had all the energy for the rest of the day and no body wants to miss night life as a teenager in the summer.

    But to legit answer your question, you can really do it however you want. It's very important to keep your agility up during the off season, so whenever you can fit plyo/ cardio in, do it. Just keep track of workload. You don't want to over do it. Perhaps try my old high school skeleton and keep it down to three days of lifting with dryland 2 days.

    Hang cleans are positioned on the distal part of the quad (near the bottom), Power cleans start at the floor with your shins to the bar hands just a little more than hip width. Both good for explosion, and very similar. Hang clean was used for quickness where as power clean was coached as a +weight explosive exercise. During hockey, I favored the hang - hang clean kept my legs quick, especially when I was running a 4.4. and sub 49 400m. As far as muscle targeting, again, similar zones, calves, quads, glutes, lower back, traps, forearms.

    Whey protein is always good. Check out the stock at AtLargeNutrition! You are on the brink of adulthood, so you could start taking a pre workout drink or something. I have no clear answer on this.

    Reps/ sets: Hmm, this is tough, when I was in high school hockey, and even now in college, I wanted to be big. Granted I was only 5'9" and nearly 160 without my gear on, but I strived for power and quickness in the weight room - the endurance came with cardio and skating. If it wasn't for the standing jammer machine, I wouldn't have been able to knock 6'5" people on their asses like I did at Saline. Work that power and you will see it in your stride and hear it in your edge. Nothing better than freshly sharpened skates and the sound of you carving hell into the ice. --- 6-8 reps and around 3-4 sets.

    When I was introduced to the dot drill, I loved it as a warm up. SMR for upper and lower body is pretty important too.

    Here is a link to the upper body and lower body articles:
    http://www.wannabebig.com/training/i...-body-warm-up/
    http://www.wannabebig.com/training/i...r-performance/

    Oh, and if you don't have a massage roller, get one.

    Thanks so much, thecity alive, I love reading all your replys to people I have learned so much.

    Can you ever overdo cardio, and lose what you gained in the gym? Thats my only concern? And what about sled, or even car pushes? Are those good forms of cardio, as the only thing I am doing now are sprints. Plyometrics is something I dont want to miss out on, as without plyo, hockey wouldnt be hockey,

    Thanks for answering my question on hang cleans, every where I go I hear cleans, or the two seperate names, and I have never deciphered the two. I guess Im doing power cleans right now then haha.

    Right now I am just currently taking a post workout drink and trying to keep more of a healthy diet, but you know how difficult that can be as a teenager, Is something like Quickmass beneficial or any of that stuff, or just junk?

    6-8 is kindof what I figured, Right now I am doing anywhere between 5-10 as hearing that covers the range of almost everything I need.

    Yeah dot drills a classic.

    Ive heard about a massage roller, but no one seems to have them at my gym, commercial gym in canada none the less. Ive never seen one being used but heard about them, would you be able to explain further?

    Thanks so much for all your help.

  7. #6
    Rob Schilke | GFX Designer thecityalive's Avatar
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    Yeah, you can overdo cardio. I read that it starts to eat away your muscle if you do it too much - which is why rest and moderation is important. Sled and car pushes is something I would consider anaerobic than cardiovascular. It's due to the extra weight that takes away from the cadio side of things.

    Most gainers will have high calories, but also high sugars - just be careful of what you are consuming. I'm sure at your age you can metabolize anything. Generally anything with lots of sugar is frowned upon. Off Road might have something more to add to this.

    A massage roller is basically a stick with large beads on this stick. You use it to help aid in self myofascial release - which is basically rolling your muscle tissue to stretch the small connective tissues in between your muscle fibers back to their original state, breaking up any knots you may have. Check online for one, or perhaps go to a sporting goods store and see if they have them in stock.
    My road to powerlifting:
    ===thecityalive is dead meat===
    Current RAW PRs:
    Bench: 255 (9/30/13)
    Dead: 515 (9/2/13)
    Squat: 435 (9/26/13)
    Total: 1205 lbs.
    twitter @thecityalive

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecityalive View Post
    Yeah, you can overdo cardio. I read that it starts to eat away your muscle if you do it too much - which is why rest and moderation is important. Sled and car pushes is something I would consider anaerobic than cardiovascular. It's due to the extra weight that takes away from the cadio side of things.

    Most gainers will have high calories, but also high sugars - just be careful of what you are consuming. I'm sure at your age you can metabolize anything. Generally anything with lots of sugar is frowned upon. Off Road might have something more to add to this.

    A massage roller is basically a stick with large beads on this stick. You use it to help aid in self myofascial release - which is basically rolling your muscle tissue to stretch the small connective tissues in between your muscle fibers back to their original state, breaking up any knots you may have. Check online for one, or perhaps go to a sporting goods store and see if they have them in stock.
    Im just worried if I start doing too much cardio I will lose all the gains I have made since Christmas, roughly twenty pounds. What would you do for cardio instead?

    Yeah sugars havent really bothered me, I can eat anything and not gain a pound. Ill check out some sites.

    Thanks man

  9. #8
    Senior Member Clover's Avatar
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    Steve Stamkos did a lot of sprints and sled pulling last summer and you saw how that worked out for him this year. Gary Roberts has him focused on doing HIIT for his off season training.

  10. #9
    Rob Schilke | GFX Designer thecityalive's Avatar
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    Sled pulling will make you quicker. Think goal line to goal line sprints, attaching a sled and harness will simulate the weight of your equipment, but I don't know how cardiovascular it is. I suppose it is thinking about it now. I remember at Red Berenson's camp, we had parachutes on ice. FUN FUN.
    My road to powerlifting:
    ===thecityalive is dead meat===
    Current RAW PRs:
    Bench: 255 (9/30/13)
    Dead: 515 (9/2/13)
    Squat: 435 (9/26/13)
    Total: 1205 lbs.
    twitter @thecityalive

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecityalive View Post
    Sled pulling will make you quicker. Think goal line to goal line sprints, attaching a sled and harness will simulate the weight of your equipment, but I don't know how cardiovascular it is. I suppose it is thinking about it now. I remember at Red Berenson's camp, we had parachutes on ice. FUN FUN.
    Yeah It would be like shooting with seven pound stick, and heavy pucks, When you go to use the real stuff you will be alot faster. That would be fun tho. What about agility? I know this isnt in the right forum but I dont really want to post another thread.

  12. #11
    Rob Schilke | GFX Designer thecityalive's Avatar
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    You won't cut 20 pounds doing cardio. Unless you are overweight and out of shape, which clearly isn't the case, it is impossible for you to just cut 20 pounds in a short period (unless you cut your leg off). People that are out of shape tend to lose fat at a rapid rate at first then start to plateau because their body is getting used to the work. You on the other hand have trained your body to the point where 20 pounds of (hopefully) muscle isn't going to go away like people on The Biggest Loser. I generally run 3k a couple days of the week in my training sessions. I enjoy the endurance part of running and the challenge. Other wise, I will bike for five to ten minutes just to get my heart rate up for my lifts.

    Agility training is really complicated. Different coaches teach different methods when it comes to agility. I always loved doing drills in the sand - really helped with stability and calf strength. It is hard to really explode from the sand so you really have to put 100% effort when doing sand trials. Various ladder drills, hip strides (the fun jumps from side to side like you are skating like Charlie Conway), and dot drills were always implemented in our agility training. Standing broad jumps for explosive hips and thighs.

    What are YOU/ coaches doing for agility?
    My road to powerlifting:
    ===thecityalive is dead meat===
    Current RAW PRs:
    Bench: 255 (9/30/13)
    Dead: 515 (9/2/13)
    Squat: 435 (9/26/13)
    Total: 1205 lbs.
    twitter @thecityalive

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecityalive View Post
    You won't cut 20 pounds doing cardio. Unless you are overweight and out of shape, which clearly isn't the case, it is impossible for you to just cut 20 pounds in a short period (unless you cut your leg off). People that are out of shape tend to lose fat at a rapid rate at first then start to plateau because their body is getting used to the work. You on the other hand have trained your body to the point where 20 pounds of (hopefully) muscle isn't going to go away like people on The Biggest Loser. I generally run 3k a couple days of the week in my training sessions. I enjoy the endurance part of running and the challenge. Other wise, I will bike for five to ten minutes just to get my heart rate up for my lifts.

    Agility training is really complicated. Different coaches teach different methods when it comes to agility. I always loved doing drills in the sand - really helped with stability and calf strength. It is hard to really explode from the sand so you really have to put 100% effort when doing sand trials. Various ladder drills, hip strides (the fun jumps from side to side like you are skating like Charlie Conway), and dot drills were always implemented in our agility training. Standing broad jumps for explosive hips and thighs.

    What are YOU/ coaches doing for agility?
    Which would be more beneficial for myself, short sprints(like a hockey shift), or longer runs.
    Im going to try out alot of different methods to keep myself in shape this summer, as usually its funner that way lol.

    Dot drills is one of the only parallels I can see between many coachs, so implementing those is a definate.
    Thanks man, seen most of these, but putting a program together will be much easier with all these, as well as someone elses opinion.

    Last year, our team trained basically on our own, with a dryland once a week. Dryland was run by our trainer, who specialized more in first aid then training athletes, so it consisted of a circuit with really no point ot it. pushups, situps, chin ups, box jumps, mountain climbers, and biking. I would enjoy more than just ladder drills once in awhile, as that seems to be all I ever see people train for agility. Like you can train agility on the ice, but maintaining and improving in the offseason seems to be what everyone forgets.
    Ill keep researching more things on agility training, and implementing what you have noted.
    Can I just ask what your background is in training, and how long you have been training?

  14. #13
    Rob Schilke | GFX Designer thecityalive's Avatar
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    Hmm, overall endurance is important. Every once in a while, go on a mile+ run just to get acclimated to it. I know breathing warm summer air is nothing compared to dry cold rink air. I actually prefer rink air, it clears my sinuses. haha.

    If you were to split it, I would say 70% should be sprinting and 30% should be endurance running. You NEED to train your muscles to be more explosive yet resilient for those short (should be) minute shifts.

    My background in training as a profession = none. Haha.
    My background as an athlete= about 15 years.

    As I grew older, I grew curious of different training methods. I was the one asking questions to our team trainer about various anatomical subjects (after taking a course in anatomy and physiology). Then once college hit, diet and nutrition sparked an interest. I guess you could say I have been a student of training all my life because it was my life. Playing hockey since six and playing football. hockey, and running track in high school definitely got me enveloped in the whole realm of sports science.

    I am a fine arts major and soon to pursuit a student affairs mastery degree when this is all said in done.

    I guess my knowledge comes from just paying attention and giving a damn when no one else would.

    Oh, I was a cornerback, right wing/ centre, and 200m/400m runner.
    My road to powerlifting:
    ===thecityalive is dead meat===
    Current RAW PRs:
    Bench: 255 (9/30/13)
    Dead: 515 (9/2/13)
    Squat: 435 (9/26/13)
    Total: 1205 lbs.
    twitter @thecityalive

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecityalive View Post
    Hmm, overall endurance is important. Every once in a while, go on a mile+ run just to get acclimated to it. I know breathing warm summer air is nothing compared to dry cold rink air. I actually prefer rink air, it clears my sinuses. haha.

    If you were to split it, I would say 70% should be sprinting and 30% should be endurance running. You NEED to train your muscles to be more explosive yet resilient for those short (should be) minute shifts.

    My background in training as a profession = none. Haha.
    My background as an athlete= about 15 years.

    As I grew older, I grew curious of different training methods. I was the one asking questions to our team trainer about various anatomical subjects (after taking a course in anatomy and physiology). Then once college hit, diet and nutrition sparked an interest. I guess you could say I have been a student of training all my life because it was my life. Playing hockey since six and playing football. hockey, and running track in high school definitely got me enveloped in the whole realm of sports science.

    I am a fine arts major and soon to pursuit a student affairs mastery degree when this is all said in done.

    I guess my knowledge comes from just paying attention and giving a damn when no one else would.

    Oh, I was a cornerback, right wing/ centre, and 200m/400m runner.
    I wish you could train in a rink all summer long, wouldnt that be the life.

    Haha no worries I was just wondering, as you seem to know all your ****, and wouldnt be surprised if you had a background in training athletes.
    Thats kind of the stage I am at right now, with one more year left until graduate I still have no clue what I want to do with my life. Im looking maybe into kiniesology or sport development and training. Im just trying to take in as much as I can right now, as all this information just fascinates me.

    Hahah booo forwards, none of those guys know anything, its all about the defence

  16. #15
    Rob Schilke | GFX Designer thecityalive's Avatar
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    Meh, when I play roller I skate as a defenseman. I know offense too well, so I just make it look easy.
    I
    My road to powerlifting:
    ===thecityalive is dead meat===
    Current RAW PRs:
    Bench: 255 (9/30/13)
    Dead: 515 (9/2/13)
    Squat: 435 (9/26/13)
    Total: 1205 lbs.
    twitter @thecityalive

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecityalive View Post
    Meh, when I play roller I skate as a defenseman. I know offense too well, so I just make it look easy.
    I
    hahah yeah I wish I could play forward, but when you six years old and you skate faster backwards then forwards your future is layed out for you.

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