The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    Senior Member SoCoBarbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    115

    Benching with lats

    I've read over and over to press the weight with my lats. That makes no sense to me at all. How can you press with your lats when your lats are to pull your arms towards the body?

    Obviously you can or guys like Frankl wouldn't always be telling me to do it. If you guys can explain how to do this or refer me to some good articles I would appreciate it.

  2.    Support Wannabebig and use AtLarge Nutrition Supplements!


  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,475
    I never learned it until I started taking the handoff lower so I was supporting the weight with my lats instead of shoulders.
    www.wildirongym.com
    Become a fan of Wild Iron on Facebook:
    http://tinyurl.com/WildIron

  4. #3
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    986
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusWild View Post
    I never learned it until I started taking the handoff lower so I was supporting the weight with my lats instead of shoulders.
    This.

    When you take the bar out it should be over the lats, not directly over the neck/shoulder. You should be flaring your lats and the weight is supported by the lats on the way down.

    Some thing that worked for me is when I take the bar out I grip the bar tightly and just slightly twist the pinky fingers towards my feet. Just enough to feel the lats spread/flex. Sort of a mental cue I guess.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  5. #4
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,359
    If you learn to lower the weight mostly with your elbows tucked into your lats, you'll have no choice but to start the press with them. Although this video will not show you how to press with your lats, it will teach you where the weight needs to be to do so. Plus it's a great back exercise.

    Video


    Supplements I currently take: Nitrean , BCAA , Creatine 500 , Multi-Plus , Fish Oil

    My Training Log , My Youtube Videos

    "The weak will never understand" - Vincent Dizenzo

  6. #5
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    80
    Here's what i can never get about this technique...

    I create a good arch and take a good 2" or so off my bench stroke by pinching my shoulder blades together and pulling them down, so that my chest is up and it is my upper traps that are in contact with the bench. Seems in line with what big benchers recommend.

    The only problem i have with this is that if you do this, its more or less impossible to flare you lats, at least it is for me. Is anyone able to really arch the thoracic spine, pinch the shoulder blades back and down AND flare the lats?

    Im guessing that the lats technique is more for the bigger guys who cant/dont have to arch as much anyway?

  7. #6
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,359
    You are not flaring your lats, you are tucking you elbows and lowering the weight into your lats. There's a big difference. Do the exercise in the video with enough band tension where you can barely get the bar down and pull the bar too your belly button. You cannot flare your lats and do it. You tuck and pull low.


    Supplements I currently take: Nitrean , BCAA , Creatine 500 , Multi-Plus , Fish Oil

    My Training Log , My Youtube Videos

    "The weak will never understand" - Vincent Dizenzo

  8. #7
    Senior Member SoCoBarbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    115
    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    You are not flaring your lats, you are tucking you elbows and lowering the weight into your lats. There's a big difference. Do the exercise in the video with enough band tension where you can barely get the bar down and pull the bar too your belly button. You cannot flare your lats and do it. You tuck and pull low.
    So basically you are lowering the weight with your lats? I get that and do especially when the shirt locks up and I'm pulling it down my lats are working hard and I'll be real tight. It just seems like they're always saying to press with the lats. The only way I could see to do that is to flare them out but then my shoulders wouldn't be pinched in any more?

  9. #8
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    You are not flaring your lats, you are tucking you elbows and lowering the weight into your lats. There's a big difference. Do the exercise in the video with enough band tension where you can barely get the bar down and pull the bar too your belly button. You cannot flare your lats and do it. You tuck and pull low.
    RIIIIGHT! Ok i finally get it. F*@k; thats pretty straight forward, now i feel stupid!

    Im gonna try that tomorrow night and ill let you know...

  10. #9
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,359
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCoBarbell View Post
    So basically you are lowering the weight with your lats? I get that and do especially when the shirt locks up and I'm pulling it down my lats are working hard and I'll be real tight. It just seems like they're always saying to press with the lats. The only way I could see to do that is to flare them out but then my shoulders wouldn't be pinched in any more?
    Alright, so when your elbows are tucked and the weight is touching down below your sternum, how do you press it?


    Supplements I currently take: Nitrean , BCAA , Creatine 500 , Multi-Plus , Fish Oil

    My Training Log , My Youtube Videos

    "The weak will never understand" - Vincent Dizenzo

  11. #10
    Senior Member SoCoBarbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    115
    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    Alright, so when your elbows are tucked and the weight is touching down below your sternum, how do you press it?

    This is making me think. Thanks. I drive my legs forcing myself even higher onto my traps. I press as explosive as I can straight back up and lock out with my triceps. Really hard to say what muscles I'm using from the bottom but, my chest gets pretty sore even on shirted days. I keep my shoulders pinched together all the way up................ That really goes to my questioning because I don't know if that's right?
    Last edited by SoCoBarbell; 06-20-2010 at 08:38 PM.

  12. #11
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,359
    My chest rarely hurts at all from equipped benching. For me, my pecs are one of the last muscles in the lift. My legs, lats, back, shoulderss, and triceps are always much more sore than my pecs. Post some vid of various angles of your bench.


    Supplements I currently take: Nitrean , BCAA , Creatine 500 , Multi-Plus , Fish Oil

    My Training Log , My Youtube Videos

    "The weak will never understand" - Vincent Dizenzo

  13. #12
    Senior Member SoCoBarbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    115
    Will do Wednesday THANKS

  14. #13
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,934
    One other thing that will help you is how you squeeze the bar. You almost have to flex them as if you were rowing the bar, not letting gravity push it down.

    Squeeze the bar really hard with your pinkies and try to bend the bar. Obviously you're not going to actually bend the bar but it'll really help you flex your lats into it.

    The movement that Vin showed really helped me with my setup. Highly recommend it.


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  15. #14
    Senior Member Ruff Riff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    352
    I think when you start learning how important your back set up is to a good bench you really start to understand it is more then just laying there and pushing weight! If my back, or base feels good my bench feels good just that simple!!!

  16. #15
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    You are not flaring your lats, you are tucking you elbows and lowering the weight into your lats. There's a big difference. Do the exercise in the video with enough band tension where you can barely get the bar down and pull the bar too your belly button. You cannot flare your lats and do it. You tuck and pull low.
    Vincent, we tried these last night - you can really feel them. What surprised me is it's kind of a lower, deeper part of the lat that you use compared to the part you use in, say, chins.

    Here's a question though if you don't mind: in order to use the deep lat to pull the bar in, we were touching very low. In comps our team have to touch no lower than the bottom of the sternum. If you pull the bar in with your lats and touch to the sternum it seems your forearms would end up angled back towards your head instead of perpendicular to the bar, because of the extreme elbow tuck...

    Ok not exactly a question, but is that about right? If you have to touch to low sternum should you accept that forearms will be bent backwards or should you aim for some happy medium?

    Thanks

  17. #16
    Wannabebig Member C-Sobrino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    San Juan
    Posts
    84
    Does all this apply if you bench raw?
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good." - 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "For me the most important thing is to beat myself, to lift the barbell that up to this point I have not yet lifted." - Alexeyev

  18. #17
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Westside Barbell, OH
    Posts
    8,934
    Yep

    You just don't tuck quite as much when benching raw, but you still should squeeze your lats and upper back very hard


    AtLarge Nutrition Supplements Get the best supplements and help support Wannabebig!

    Superior Athletics - Northeast Ohio's Center for Athlete Training
    *Westside Barbell Certified Gym

  19. #18
    Senior Member Gugunir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    148
    I only learned how to "bench with my lats" after I really wrecked my shoulder up which forced me to have perfect form. Trying to bend the bar like Travis mentioned also helped tremendously along with experimenting a bit with width, grip, and bar position especially how and to where I lowered the bar.
    "What is the strongest cure?—Victory."

    -Friedrich Nietzsche

    “You are what your deep, driving desire is. As your desire is, so is your will. As your will is, so is your deed. As your deed is, so is your destiny."

    -Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

  20. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Morrisville,PA
    Posts
    3,072
    It happens automatically now as long as my lats/upper back are bearing all the weight (i.e staying tight). Don't even have to think about it.

  21. #20
    Senior Member IronDiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    603
    I think I really need to focus on benching like this. Unfortunately my lats seem to be the hardest thing for me to strengthen and I'm pretty sure they're quite weak.
    Best unequipped meet lifts - 120kg Open class
    Sq: 629lbs
    Bp: 330lbs
    Dl: 585lbs
    Training since Dec 2008.

  22. #21
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,359
    Quote Originally Posted by IronDiggy View Post
    I think I really need to focus on benching like this. Unfortunately my lats seem to be the hardest thing for me to strengthen and I'm pretty sure they're quite weak.
    Perform every back exercise like a reverse bench. I pinch my shoulder blades back and never release them forward when training back. That's why I never do seated pulldowns, you can't keep your shoulder blades retracted while doing so. I do them standing to the belly.


    Supplements I currently take: Nitrean , BCAA , Creatine 500 , Multi-Plus , Fish Oil

    My Training Log , My Youtube Videos

    "The weak will never understand" - Vincent Dizenzo

  23. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,529
    Great advice from Vinnie as usual! I've also heard Scot Mendelson say that he feels competition benching is 75% lats as the primary mover. I agree.
    Proudly Sponsored by Titan Support Systems Inc. and 'Monster Barbell'
    Training log: (Mastermonster's Quest For The Records)

  24. #23
    Senior Member IronDiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    603
    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    Perform every back exercise like a reverse bench. I pinch my shoulder blades back and never release them forward when training back. That's why I never do seated pulldowns, you can't keep your shoulder blades retracted while doing so. I do them standing to the belly.
    I'm going to start doing that. I tried the barbell with bands, didn't bring a heavy enough band with me though, choked was too easy, doubled I had to try setting up with the bar in my hands to pull it down, and it kept pulling my shoulders off the bench.

    I also tried the standing lat pulldowns, those are awesome.
    Best unequipped meet lifts - 120kg Open class
    Sq: 629lbs
    Bp: 330lbs
    Dl: 585lbs
    Training since Dec 2008.

Similar Threads

  1. carry over from shirted benching to raw benching?
    By jtteg_x in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-09-2009, 07:33 AM
  2. PL Benching -> BB Benching, form?
    By JSully in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 05-27-2008, 12:44 PM
  3. Lats.. Latss and More Lats and a few other problems
    By viperc8 in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 03-15-2008, 06:47 PM
  4. lats in benching
    By jack_of_all in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-16-2005, 06:25 AM
  5. If I switch from BB Benching to DB Benching...
    By fixationdarknes in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 03-06-2005, 05:55 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •