The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    Dead-lift/sport specific.

    What do you think of this chart?

    Seem off to me on a lot of things for example why would DB dead be better for baseball than a conv dead? machine deadlift for powerlifting lol. I wonder why some of these sports are placed under certain variants.


    DEAD LIFT VARIATION...PRIMARY MUSCLES USED...COMMENTS...SPORT-SPECIFIC APPLICATIONS
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Conventional DL...gluteus, quadriceps, hip adductors, spinal erectors...total body exercise...football, volleyball, sailing, soccer

    Sumo DL...gluteus, quadriceps, hip adductors...decreased lumbar stress, total body exercise...wrestling, rugby league, rugby union, football

    Romanian DL...hamstrings, spinal erectors...essential learning movement for Olympic lifts and variants...weightlifting, field events (throws), hockey

    Power Rack DL...spinal erectors...heavy loads used for increased strength... powerlifting, rugby league, rugby union, football

    Machine DL...varies with exercise movement...controlled movement pattern...powerlifting, rugby league, rugby union, football

    Snatch DL...upper back, spinal erectors...increased scapular stabilization...weightlifting, gymnastics, ski jumper

    Dumbbell DL...varies with exercise movement pattern...sailing, windsurfing, baseball, equestrian

    One Arm DL...abdominal, spinal erectors...increased trunk stabilization...field events (throws), rugby, squash, tennis, equestrian, archery, sailing

    Strongman DL ...gluteus, quadriceps, hip adductors...heavy loads using various objects, total body exercise...wrestling, rugby league, rugby union, football

    Fingergrip DL...varies with movement (forearm muscles)...increased grip strength... rock climbing, archery, basketball, gymnastics

    Stiff-legged DL...gluteus, quadriceps, hip adductors, spinal erectors...common technical errors, low back rehabilitation contraindicated...diving, gymnastics, sailing

    Last edited by ThomasG; 06-22-2010 at 11:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
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  3. #2
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    That is quite the over complicated chart! LOL

    Let's be honest, how often do you see nautical enthusiasts, archers, equestrians (horse riders) or the like in the gym?

    3 variations I feel are best for athletes - wide stance stiff legged, sumo and conventional.

    Sometimes the more simple approach is the best.


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  4. #3
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    That is quite the over complicated chart! LOL

    Let's be honest, how often do you see nautical enthusiasts, archers, equestrians (horse riders) or the like in the gym?

    3 variations I feel are best for athletes - wide stance stiff legged, sumo and conventional.

    Sometimes the more simple approach is the best.
    I usually go conventional and SLDL with athletes. I have yet to use sumo other than with power lifting. In what scenario do you use sumo dls other than with power lifting?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
    23 Years old
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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasG View Post
    What do you think of this chart?

    Seem off to me on a lot of things for example why would DB dead be better for baseball than a conv dead? machine deadlift for powerlifting lol. I wonder why some of these sports are placed under certain variants.


    DEAD LIFT VARIATION...PRIMARY MUSCLES USED...COMMENTS...SPORT-SPECIFIC APPLICATIONS
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Conventional DL...gluteus, quadriceps, hip adductors, spinal erectors...total body exercise...football, volleyball, sailing, soccer

    Sumo DL...gluteus, quadriceps, hip adductors...decreased lumbar stress, total body exercise...wrestling, rugby league, rugby union, football

    Romanian DL...hamstrings, spinal erectors...essential learning movement for Olympic lifts and variants...weightlifting, field events (throws), hockey

    Power Rack DL...spinal erectors...heavy loads used for increased strength... powerlifting, rugby league, rugby union, football

    Machine DL...varies with exercise movement...controlled movement pattern...powerlifting, rugby league, rugby union, football

    Snatch DL...upper back, spinal erectors...increased scapular stabilization...weightlifting, gymnastics, ski jumper

    Dumbbell DL...varies with exercise movement pattern...sailing, windsurfing, baseball, equestrian

    One Arm DL...abdominal, spinal erectors...increased trunk stabilization...field events (throws), rugby, squash, tennis, equestrian, archery, sailing

    Strongman DL ...gluteus, quadriceps, hip adductors...heavy loads using various objects, total body exercise...wrestling, rugby league, rugby union, football

    Fingergrip DL...varies with movement (forearm muscles)...increased grip strength... rock climbing, archery, basketball, gymnastics

    Stiff-legged DL...gluteus, quadriceps, hip adductors, spinal erectors...common technical errors, low back rehabilitation contraindicated...diving, gymnastics, sailing

    WOW!! somebody wasted a whole bunch of time making this chart. Just Deadlift for Pete's sake.
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  6. #5
    Senior Member Butcher's Avatar
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    I see the phrase "sport specific training" going the way of core training and functional strength, if it isnt there already.

  7. #6
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasG View Post
    I usually go conventional and SLDL with athletes. I have yet to use sumo other than with power lifting. In what scenario do you use sumo dls other than with power lifting?
    All my athletes use all the variations I listed. Sumo is great for glutes and hips


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  8. #7
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
    I see the phrase "sport specific training" going the way of core training and functional strength, if it isnt there already.
    It definitely is there already...

    I guess from now on, I'll have all my equestrian clients do DB DLs because that will be soooo much more "sport specific"!
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
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  9. #8
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    Why do you have your athletes do SLDLs with a wide stance Travis? Is it for hip strength? Or to decrease range of motion and prevent back rounding?

  10. #9
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Yep, hip strength


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  11. #10
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    Travis,
    You ever use snatch grip deads for your lifters/athletes?

    Ryan Hale

  12. #11
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    wide stance stiff leg DL vs. Sumo, ? only difference is the bending of knees in sumo style, is that it?

    also with stiff leg the bar isn't going to ride up the shin either? more likely the bar is out in front off the shins a bit too, right?

  13. #12
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Hale View Post
    Travis,
    You ever use snatch grip deads for your lifters/athletes?

    Ryan Hale
    Not really

    Quote Originally Posted by Rugby Dad View Post
    wide stance stiff leg DL vs. Sumo, ? only difference is the bending of knees in sumo style, is that it?

    also with stiff leg the bar isn't going to ride up the shin either? more likely the bar is out in front off the shins a bit too, right?
    No. Wide stance SLDL is done with a much wider stance than you would pull regular sumo. It's exaggerated. That's how you get the hips worked

    And actually it's the opposite with the shins, when your legs are straight, you have to have the bar more in front of you at the start of the lift as you need to maintain a tight arch.


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  14. #13
    Senior Member Ruff Riff's Avatar
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    I think more threads like this one are REALLY cool and helpful!

    It is nice to be able to let people know how many of the lifts we do can help athletes in many different sports, all really, but never the less the discussion is an educational one and interesting to see everyones ideas.

  15. #14
    Wannabebig Member Cali4nia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    That is quite the over complicated chart! LOL

    Let's be honest, how often do you see nautical enthusiasts, archers, equestrians (horse riders) or the like in the gym?

    3 variations I feel are best for athletes - wide stance stiff legged, sumo and conventional.

    Sometimes the more simple approach is the best.
    Hi Travis, Regarding the wide stance stiff-legged DL, where in relation are your toes to the plates?.

    Is this about right?. Like an inch or 2 inside?. Or wider?.

    Video
    Last edited by Cali4nia; 09-02-2010 at 03:44 PM.

  16. #15
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cali4nia View Post
    Hi Travis, Regarding the wide stance stiff-legged DL, where in relation are your toes to the plates?.

    Is this about right?. Like an inch or 2 inside?. Or wider?.
    Foot position is about right, but no that is not quite correct on how to perform them.


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  17. #16
    Senior Member bojackson's Avatar
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    I can say after spending 15 years of training college and high school athletes, I wish more coaches would incorproate the Deadlift. Most coaches are afraid of "injury", hence the popularity of the hex/trap bar deadlift.When I have been able to incorporate the deadlift, within a year the atheltes almost transform from the top of the shoulders to the back of there knees. I have had many coaches see our kids in a uniform and ask "what the hell are we doing to develop these kids?". Im not saying its for everyone, but it has without a doubt been "100%" beneficial for the athletes I have trained. And forget the term "sport specific", its over-used and over analyzed.
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  18. #17
    Wannabebig Member Cali4nia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    Foot position is about right, but no that is not quite correct on how to perform them.
    Travis, Since you train at one of the Worlds top powerlifting gyms, Would you happen to know why Bolton is head & shoulders above everyone else in the sport & Why nobody from Westside can touch him?, Even with having a world class figure such as Louie on board?.
    Last edited by Cali4nia; 09-10-2010 at 06:36 AM.

  19. #18
    Wannabebig Member Cali4nia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bojackson View Post
    I can say after spending 15 years of training college and high school athletes, I wish more coaches would incorproate the Deadlift. Most coaches are afraid of "injury", hence the popularity of the hex/trap bar deadlift.When I have been able to incorporate the deadlift, within a year the atheltes almost transform from the top of the shoulders to the back of there knees. I have had many coaches see our kids in a uniform and ask "what the hell are we doing to develop these kids?". Im not saying its for everyone, but it has without a doubt been "100%" beneficial for the athletes I have trained. And forget the term "sport specific", its over-used and over analyzed.
    Was Bo big into deadlifting?.

  20. #19
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cali4nia View Post
    Travis, Since you train at one of the Worlds top powerlifting gyms, Would you happen to know why Andy Bolton is head & shoulders above everyone else in the sport & Why nobody from Westside can touch him?, Even with having a world class figure such as Louie on board?.
    LOL um, maybe for the same reason that NOBODY else can catch him? Same reason that NOBODY can touch Kennelly on the bench?

    Those guys are built for and genetically gifted for what they do. It's that simple. A coach can't create genetics.


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  21. #20
    Wannabebig Member Cali4nia's Avatar
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    Oh well.

    At least your better looking.

    Thats something at least.
    Last edited by Cali4nia; 09-09-2010 at 02:22 PM.

  22. #21
    Senior Member DMedley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    Let's be honest, how often do you see nautical enthusiasts, archers, equestrians (horse riders) or the like in the gym? .
    Well to be honest ... any day I go to the gym I see at least 3 archers and a dozen or so equestrians ... I also live in Cowboy Country. LOL but your point is well taken.

  23. #22
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMedley View Post
    Well to be honest ... any day I go to the gym I see at least 3 archers and a dozen or so equestrians ... I also live in Cowboy Country. LOL but your point is well taken.
    Yeah my point was just that they are probably not in there to improve their performance in their given sport. They are there to be lifters just like the rest of us. In addition, even if they were, deadlifting a specific way isn't going to make a big difference.

    However should they be in there to improve their sport performance, I suppose you probably can't argue that lol.


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