The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #76
    Wannabebig New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJR View Post
    I really WANT this early morning fasted training protocol to work. I train early in the morning and tried the 10g BCAA, but I always feel very low glycogen/weak and bonk during the workout. I never feel strong.

    If I get ONE meal with some carbs/protein (even moderate in size), then I'm fine. I'd actually rather have an early dinner and move the entire eating window earlier in the day and avoid the whole fasted training thing (bcaa or not, makes no difference to me from a performance standpoint even if the MPS is elevated).

    Just curious if anyone has experienced this with the BCAA/fasted training protocol.
    Like, I said, I love IF as long as I get one good meal in me preworkout. So IF is not the issue. Just the fasted/BCAA training.
    how does your workout look volume-wise ?

    I can hack it when I keep volume low... like a HIT workout, but when I do some volume I'm done pretty fast... I'll have to do the important stuff in the first half hour or so.Than again I ran (jogged) 17.5 km the other day on just some BCAA's.

  2. #77
    Wannabebig New Member MJR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wazzup View Post
    how does your workout look volume-wise ?

    I can hack it when I keep volume low... like a HIT workout, but when I do some volume I'm done pretty fast... I'll have to do the important stuff in the first half hour or so.Than again I ran (jogged) 17.5 km the other day on just some BCAA's.
    That's the thing. I can "hack it" with low volume, but the workouts are never enjoyable and I never FEEL strong. It would be like driving a car with the E-brake on. Yeah, you can still move the vehicle, but not as well. That's how I personally feel at least. I know others have reported MUCH different results, and frankly I guess, I'm a little envious because on paper, it looks so good to consume all your kcals postworkout, but I just can't get it to work in the real world.

    I guess I just don't understand how some people can actually get BETTER performance from fasted (or just BCAA which is still pretty much fasted). What an awesome situation to be in! If you can train like this, MORE POWER TO YOU!

    I'm not denying the research on this. I know it's there. If you have glycogen from the day before you should be fine to lift, but for some reason, that's never the case for me. I guess I'll just have to have a preworkout meal and start the feeding window earlier in the day.

    I just wanted to see (out of curiosity) if I was the only one. Not a huge deal either way. I know everyone's different, like I said, I was just curious.

    Thanks.

    *Side note: I feel like one of the non-responders to creatine or something right now, haha.
    Last edited by MJR; 08-09-2010 at 12:21 AM.

  3. #78
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJR View Post

    I'm not denying the research on this. I know it's there.
    Except it's not, really. All you have are the regular handful of sketchy studies conducted with a clinically insignificant sample size that draws one shaky conclusion that may or may not directly conflict with another equally bad study.

    The same sort of crappy science that leads to any number of whacked out ridiculous routines, diets, and supplements that takes message boards by storm and leads to a whole bunch of people jumping on bandwagons only to show zero benefit from them years later.

    I think that's why I stopped reading message boards. The more I got involved in actual biochemistry and clinical trials, the less credibility these articles and studies started having. Fifty articles say eat every three hours. Fifty others say "Intermittent fasting is the way to go!". A hundred arguments have taken place as to which is better. NONE of them have any true, clinically relevant studies published in reputable peer-reviewed journals to back them up. (By peer-reviewed, I mean actual researchers, not Joe Shmoe the Interweb Training Guru)

    Why not split the difference and just eat a few meals a day like a normal person and stop trying to second guess your body? I guarantee you'll end up, in the balance, with the same results (if not better) as all this other crap. Your leptin/ghrelin/HGH/insulin/whateverthehell levels might not be getting expertly manipulated by your clever diet plan, but I pretty much guarantee your body overall doesn't give a rat's ass.

    Go back to the basics. Eat protein. Eat carbs. Eat fat. Lift. Do some cardio every now and then. Get some sleep. Do all these things on a fairly regular basis without going overboard. Spend your time reading the training articles on this website, not the 'bro science'.

    And if you want to be huge, take three grams a week of test.

    Bodybuilding in a nutshell.


    ***edited to add a smiley face to show I'm being helpful and cheery, not curmudgeonly. Look:::
    Last edited by Alex.V; 08-11-2010 at 11:03 AM.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
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  4. #79
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belial View Post
    Go back to the basics. Eat protein. Eat carbs. Eat fat. Lift. Do some cardio every now and then. Get some sleep. Do all these things on a fairly regular basis without going overboard. Spend your time reading the training articles on this website, not the 'bro science'.

    And if you want to be huge, take three grams a week of test.

    Bodybuilding in a nutshell.
    Ahh, how I have missed you buddy.. lol I hope you stick about and keep telling people how it is

    If there is one thing to take from this article is that you don't need to get your panties all caught in a bunch because you had a meal less or you ate your breakfast 15 minutes late. It doesn't make ANY difference.

    The key things are what Mr Belial said... Do them CONSISTENTLY and you'll see gains.

    Now, if an IF approach allows you to be more consistent and fits with your lifestyle better - do it.

    If you prefer to eat smaller meals and can be more consistent that way - do it.

    Just make sure you eat what your supposed to each day, train hard, recover properly and you'll achieve your goals.
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  5. #80
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Clough View Post

    If there is one thing to take from this article is that you don't need to get your panties all caught in a bunch because you had a meal less or you ate your breakfast 15 minutes late. It doesn't make ANY difference.

    The key things are what Mr Belial said... Do them CONSISTENTLY and you'll see gains.
    Aww, you missed me. How's things dannoe?

    Tell you the truth, I was ready to slam the article until I actually read it and pretty much got the same out of it. It's not so much a "GO OUT AND TRY INARMITTENT FASTING LOLZ:" article as it is a "Hey, here's something to think about, draw your own conclusions" sort of thing, which is precisely why this is the only board and site I think I can come to.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  6. #81
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    What are the estimated Macro Breakdowns % for Workout/Non-Workout days for Leangains?

    I skimmed through this thread and browsed the site, didn't see it.

  7. #82
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    What are the estimated Macro Breakdowns % for Workout/Non-Workout days for Leangains?

  8. #83
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    I'm not sure any are listed on the site. In any case, I think the way calories and proportioned and the timing of meals are the key aspects you can use what you're currently using macro wise.

    Or you could contact Martin directly as he coaches people.
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    Hypertrophy Cluster Training - HCT-12 - If you want big gains in size and strength, huge decreases in body fat, or both - check out HCT-12.

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  9. #84
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    Ok, heard many ideas and I'm definitely intrigued. I love to eat so dieting has always been a dark time for me This Monday is week 9 (last week) of my Dysmorphia Training (DT) -> LOVED the workout btw. I have been on a calorie surplus this entire workout and have seen some good results. I started my bulking cycle at 6'2'' 220lbs 14%bf about 3 weeks before DT, continued the surplus throughout and now on the last week I'm at 227 15%bf. I started to cut about 1 1/2weeks ago. Short bulking cycle cause I started late (was on maintenance mode for about 3mo's). Bulking calories ranged from 4500-5000 cals. Now I cut them down to 2500-3000 and want to go lower. I'm trying to cut as much bf as possible while maintaining my mass (I'm sure this has been said a thousand times). I ingest a minimum of 1g of protein per body weight, and keep complex carbs and sugars to an absolute minimum.

    I work 12hr shifts 2130(9pm)-0900(9am)-night shift- so my workout time is before work. This is most effective for me because I'm usually exhausted after work. *Keeping in mind that now I'm cutting so I added more cardio in addition to dieting. Meals: *All supplements from ALN*

    1715: 5g BCAA+ / ETS
    1730-1815: Fasted Cardio (burn between 800-1200cals) - Usually 15degree incline walk at 3.5 speed
    1815: (Preworkout) Maximus shake (3scoops to keep cal's down until I receive my Nitrean+)
    1830-2000 DT
    2030: (Postworkout) Results / Opticen shake with 3 raw eggs added / multplus / fish oil
    0130: Meal 1 + multplus / fish oil
    0530: Meal 2 + multplus / fish oil
    0800: Snack (Fruit or Veg) / ETS

    **I'm waiting for my Nitrean+ to swap into the Preworkout instead of Maximus**

    Let me know where you think I can improve. In about a 1 1/2 weeks of cutting I'm weighining in at 223...

  10. #85
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    Belial = One of the reasons I'm even here still. Straight up badass. Props to you sir.

  11. #86
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by af92 View Post
    Belial = One of the reasons I'm even here still. Straight up badass. Props to you sir.
    Always glad to spit the stuff I'm sure others might be thinking.

    Cheers.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
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    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  12. #87
    Wannabebig Member Tamaon's Avatar
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    I've been doing IF for the last year and like it. The first week can suck as your body gets used to it, but the payoff if worth it. Prob not the best idea for a teen who wants to pack on mass ASAP, but it's great for the rest of us who want to loose fat and feel better. I feel very alert in the mornings now.

  13. #88
    Train hard, eat smart brian12's Avatar
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    Hi guys!

    I'm doing IF and loving it. Im around 14% BF now, aiming to get down to around 10% mark, but my main focus is still to increase muscle mass. When I started training 6 years ago, my weight was 120lbs.. I'm now 198lbs! I did that by eating every 2/3 hours and drinking 5 meal replacements each day and forcing the food down and training 6 days a week with zero cardio. haha.. Looking back, I overtrained big time, but I was younger and my body responded well.

    Now I'm following the 4 day split of HCT 12. Solid and simple program, I really like it.

    I've got a question.. If I'm aiming to drop a few more % BF, how much cardio should I add to my routine? The HCT training is new for me (previously I did a 5 day split with a lower compound movement focus). I've been on IF for 2 months, and I've seen nice results and find that it's so easy to make the right food choices and no cheats with a limited eating window) Do you think if I add in some steady state walking (15-20 mins) on each of my training days that will be enough to continue burning fat? I suspect that the newish IF approach (with clean food, no cheats) and HCT12 training will be sufficient in itself to shed more BF?

    Any ideas would be great!!! Thanks

  14. #89
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    It's all about the calories.
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    Off Road Journal

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  15. #90
    Train hard, eat smart brian12's Avatar
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    Oh, one more thing - last week I added in 25-30 mins fast walk at the end of each training session, and this left me feeling over trained this week. Hence, my idea to drop it down to say just 15 minutes at the end of each training session. My eating window is 12am until 8pm - and I train at 5pm..

    Any pointers to finishing that sweet spot where I'm still steadily (in no massive hurry) reducing BF while increasing muscle steadily - would be great!

  16. #91
    Train hard, eat smart brian12's Avatar
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    Typo* finishing = finding

  17. #92
    Train hard, eat smart brian12's Avatar
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    Off Road - I'm hitting around the 2700 calorie mark - my maintenance from experience is around 3000 (without any cardio).. If I drop the cardio and continue to focus on intense weight sessions - would that be sufficient to slow drop the BF?

  18. #93
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    You said you're losing steadily as it is, why would you change anything? Or have you stagnated in weight/fat loss?
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  19. #94
    Train hard, eat smart brian12's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Yeah - I've made good progress using leangains.. but things have stagnated a bit. But i think with the introduction of HCT and a heavy 4 day compound focused training routine that I should start seeing a continued slow BF reduction. So i'm wondering if I should leave it up to diet and the HCT training to get rid of the last few % before I hit my target BF - or, if I should add in a short slow cardio session at the end of each training day?

    I know it may well be beneficial to add in 10 minutes (to prevent blood pooling and DOMS), but should I up this to 20 minutes?

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian12 View Post
    Hi,

    Yeah - I've made good progress using leangains.. but things have stagnated a bit. But i think with the introduction of HCT and a heavy 4 day compound focused training routine that I should start seeing a continued slow BF reduction. So i'm wondering if I should leave it up to diet and the HCT training to get rid of the last few % before I hit my target BF - or, if I should add in a short slow cardio session at the end of each training day?

    I know it may well be beneficial to add in 10 minutes (to prevent blood pooling and DOMS), but should I up this to 20 minutes?
    If you have just switched to the HCT-12 routine, make sure you stick with it - changing routines while cutting fat is a bad idea as you lose some intensity which isn't good when trying to maintain muscle.

    If you have truly stalled in weight loss (scale weight fluctuates though so be sure you have truly stalled before changing anything), you can either drop your calories a bit or add some cardio. Make sure you are tracking your calories accurately too

  21. #96
    Train hard, eat smart brian12's Avatar
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    Yes, I'm sticking to it properly and really focusing on keeping my weight sessions intense.. Hence the reason I dont want to do any more cardio than I actually need.. I think I will leave things as is for the next two week and then consider adding in some cardio if needs be. I'm not in a huge rush to lose the last few BF%'s, my main focus is still muscle gain. Ideally I would like to be at 200lbs with 10%BF by the end of December.. I've been good with reaching goals over the last 5 years, but this will be the cherry on the top if I can hit that mark!

    Thanks for the advice though!

  22. #97
    Rob Schilke | GFX Designer thecityalive's Avatar
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    I don't agree with skipping breakfast at all.
    My road to powerlifting:
    ===thecityalive is dead meat===
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    Bench: 255 (9/30/13)
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  23. #98
    House Lannister
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecityalive View Post
    I don't agree with skipping breakfast at all.
    Did you even read the article?

  24. #99
    Rob Schilke | GFX Designer thecityalive's Avatar
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    Yep and as far as IF goes, great concept, but I don't think I'd be able to do that. I get quite irritable w/o food.
    My road to powerlifting:
    ===thecityalive is dead meat===
    Current RAW PRs:
    Bench: 255 (9/30/13)
    Dead: 515 (9/2/13)
    Squat: 435 (9/26/13)
    Total: 1205 lbs.
    twitter @thecityalive

  25. #100
    House Lannister
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecityalive View Post
    Yep and as far as IF goes, great concept, but I don't think I'd be able to do that. I get quite irritable w/o food.
    That's an entirely different argument than saying you don't 'agree' with it. Your first post made me think you were dismissing Berkhan's work as 'bullshit' and possibly detrimental.

    That being said I failed hard when I tried to do IF. I can't eat the food I need within 8 hours, it takes me pretty much the whole day. I do think there's some sort of partitioning effect going on with IF, how much I don't know.

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