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Thread: Why You Should Skip Breakfast: The Secrets of Intermittent Fasting - New Article!

  1. #51
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jase 'the Muss' View Post
    as i dont work out in the am! do you have to do fasted training? or say could you have first meal at 1ish then another at 6ish train at 7ish and have the bigest meal at 9? and what kind of meals are we looking at say scrambled eggs for meal one big tuna sandwhich meal two and some lean meat and veggies meal three?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jase 'the Muss' View Post
    as i dont work out in the am! do you have to do fasted training? or say could you have first meal at 1ish then another at 6ish train at 7ish and have the bigest meal at 9? and what kind of meals are we looking at say scrambled eggs for meal one big tuna sandwhich meal two and some lean meat and veggies meal three?
    Jase,

    Martin actually prescribes a plan for exactly this.

    Two pre-workout meals
    12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
    4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
    TRAIN
    8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).

    So, 3 meals a day.
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  2. #52
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berzinator View Post
    Also for anyone reading this thread who doesn't like the idea of fasting or doesn't want to go that long without food, then simply take from this article/thread that meal frequency isn't that important. In other words, you don't have to do a 16/8 fast/feed cycle or whatever, but you can relax if you only get 3 or 4 meals instead of stressing over trying to get the 5 to 6 meals in (some people suggest up to 8... Do they do anything else besides eat all day? Hahaha). I think the mental energy wasted on something as pointless as getting every meal in for the day is very excessive, especially when research is showing no benefit. Just seems like a waste of people's thought power, IMO.
    Very, very well said.
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  3. #53
    Hulk Smash! LouPac's Avatar
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    So if I wanted to try this, how many calories should I be consuming at 210lbs?

  4. #54
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    Interesting

    I'm a little bit confused,

    My actual weight is 198lbs @ 18% BF , 6.2 feet (191cm) and I am bulking aiming for 231lbs, i plan to begin my cutting phase on February 2011.

    So IF should be good in case you are trying to cut? Or it may help u even when you are in caloric sufficiency?

    I'm on a bulking phase right now and i consume around 3700kcal a day (based from the HCT-12 nutrition recommendation) in 6 meals, all from food (no protein powders etc). And it has gone well till now, bulked 16 lb in 7 weeks.

    So as i'm understanding i have to:

    1st Meal at 16:00 25% (925kcal)
    Workout at 17:30
    Post workout meal at 19:30 55% (2035kcal)
    Before bed time meal at 24:00 (740kcal)

    Should this be the right plan?

    Best Regards!
    Last edited by blackice666; 07-02-2010 at 02:56 AM.

  5. #55
    Determined View 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LouPac View Post
    So if I wanted to try this, how many calories should I be consuming at 210lbs?
    That depends on what is your goal? Maintain, fat loss, mass, recomp etc...
    Success is achieved by doing a little more than you thought you could, and a lot more than anyone else.

  6. #56
    Wannabebig Member cws's Avatar
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    This is all very interesting. I am competing in a bodybuilding show 10/9 and would love to see how this works for contest prep. I just don't think I have the stones to try it when I know the more traditional approach works, as I have used it in the past to get well into single digit bodyfat.

  7. #57
    Wannabebig Member Shadow's Avatar
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    I browse around here once in a while and this article really caught my eye. I've been struggling with diet modifications for a while. Yea, I really hate having to eat every 2-3 hours..that tupperware comment hits the nail on the head. I follow an olympic weightlifting regimen so my training is pretty set. The only excitement I get anymore is playing with nutrition.. lookin forward to trying out these ideas here.

  8. #58
    Wannabebig Member cws's Avatar
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    IF with other theories of anabolism?

    I invite comments on the potential effectiveness (If there is something out there like this, please let me know.) of a modified intermittent fast with two protein pulses in the morning (see David Barr's articles) and peri-workout nutrition based on Dr. Kevin Tipton's research. I can already hear people saying that I am just randomly throwing together theories, but I have a decent background in biochemistry and physiology (I am a board-certified internal medicine doctor and former personal trainer, and I have been studying this stuff since I was 18.) and it isn't unreasonable in my estimation to think something like this may be effective. Here is what a 2000 calorie diet would look like. Thoughts?

    6:30: 20g whey hydosylate/EAA/BCAA mix

    9:00: 20g same

    12:30: 600 calories

    6:00: 210 calories (25g dextrose/maltodextrin and 27g whey hydosylate/EAA/BCAA mix)

    7:30: 210 calories same ( perhaps with a casein/whey mix)

    9:30: 700 calories

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by cws View Post
    I invite comments on the potential effectiveness (If there is something out there like this, please let me know.) of a modified intermittent fast with two protein pulses in the morning (see David Barr's articles) and peri-workout nutrition based on Dr. Kevin Tipton's research. I can already hear people saying that I am just randomly throwing together theories, but I have a decent background in biochemistry and physiology (I am a board-certified internal medicine doctor and former personal trainer, and I have been studying this stuff since I was 18.) and it isn't unreasonable in my estimation to think something like this may be effective. Here is what a 2000 calorie diet would look like. Thoughts?

    6:30: 20g whey hydosylate/EAA/BCAA mix

    9:00: 20g same

    12:30: 600 calories

    6:00: 210 calories (25g dextrose/maltodextrin and 27g whey hydosylate/EAA/BCAA mix)

    7:30: 210 calories same ( perhaps with a casein/whey mix)

    9:30: 700 calories
    It depends whether you'd personally find that schedule workable. To me it's tending towards 6 timed feedings a day (I appreciate that's not the aim and some of the feedings aren't meals) which is the antithesis of IF.

    As for theoretical benefits, there are just too many 'maybes' to comment on whether there's a statistical significance to those 'pulse' feedings over and above simply hitting your protein requirement for the day.

    Martin Berkhan's site (leangains.com) has a few case studies and feeding strategies (linked above somewhere) that incorporate BCAA's at certain intervals etc.

    See the article here for my thoughts on most of this -

    http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...eting-collide/

  10. #60
    Wannabebig Member cws's Avatar
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    Very insightful. Thanks. I believe that in the end, for fat loss, finding a way to consistently create a calorie deficit is more important the specific method used. At the least, this should encourage people not to freak out if their forth meal commenced 12 minutes late, or if there is only 32 instead of 40 grams of protein in their breakfast.

  11. #61
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    wow..some results shown and info laid out here is interesting to me! i have bad genetics - i can out on fat easily but not muscle, i have to carefully manage my cals to lean gain and muscle growth is slow! so to me my partitioning ratio is not too good.

    My question to anyone who has experienced good results with IF....

    If i consume most of my daily cals post workout, would my partitioning ratio be better for those cals taken in post workout?? so in theory more muscle to fat ratio?

    I ask this question as my workout and work pattern changes every day, so i was thinking of just having small(s) meals before a workout. Any advice/opinions are greatly appreciated.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by matty7000 View Post
    wow..some results shown and info laid out here is interesting to me! i have bad genetics - i can out on fat easily but not muscle, i have to carefully manage my cals to lean gain and muscle growth is slow! so to me my partitioning ratio is not too good.

    My question to anyone who has experienced good results with IF....

    If i consume most of my daily cals post workout, would my partitioning ratio be better for those cals taken in post workout?? so in theory more muscle to fat ratio?

    I ask this question as my workout and work pattern changes every day, so i was thinking of just having small(s) meals before a workout. Any advice/opinions are greatly appreciated.
    Go to www.leangains.com (Martin Berkhan's site) and all the answers are there including case studies, etc.

    You'll get a better response there because they're all advocates of IF there.

  13. #63
    I wannabebig!
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    personally, I find this approach great (notice the word personally)

    If any thing, for myself, it serves as a more behavioral and psychological approach to dieting. The last thing I want to do when I diet is go to bed starving. Eating 1 or 2 big meals for me at the end of the day is much more satisfying.

  14. #64
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    Update:

    I am down to 243 ( as of last week ) from 254 a little less than 2 months ago ( still a long way to go). Calories average around 2400, I am doing 45 minutes of steady state cardio 6 days a week ( 2-3 days are fasted cardio in the morning ) and am hitting the weights 4 days a week vs 3 before. I have actually been eating more cheat meals and continue to lose inches and pounds every month.

    I am very very glad that I made the switch over to IF and I will fallow this style of eating for the rest of my life, and I LOVE the fact that I can eat normal dinners again. Like I stated before the first 2 week adjustment period was a horrible transition for me but now I am reaping the benefits of IF.
    Success is achieved by doing a little more than you thought you could, and a lot more than anyone else.

  15. #65
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    Hey View,

    How many calories are you on and can you give us a sample days food/meals?
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Clough View Post
    Hey View,

    How many calories are you on and can you give us a sample days food/meals?
    Sure thing Daniel.

    I am down to 241 this morning which is only 2 pounds in two weeks but I also had about 5-6 cheat meals per week in the last two week ( Going to go back to 1-2 max ).

    I eat alot of the same foods day in and day out, as of late I have been having a large amount of protein per meal, with a moderate amount of carbs and healthy fats. I do not fallow IF to the T so to speak as I have stated before I am everyday guy and dont need to be that strict I am not entering a body building show.

    This is what I have planned for today meal wise, minor things change here and there ( chicken, fish, brown rice, strawberries, apples, different veggies etc.. ). I will admit I do not eat enough veggies most days. I also take in 6 grams of fish oil every day.

    Meal 1: 12:00pm

    75 grams protein ( mix blend )
    1 large banana
    2 tbsp natty bp

    Meal 2: 4:00pm

    3 cans tuna
    Steal cut oats ( 54 grams )
    1 tbsp olive oil ( mixed with tuna, also will use a dap of mustard )

    Meal 3: 8:00pm

    10oz steak
    2-3 servings of green beans mixed with mushrooms
    1 cup cottage cheese
    1 activia light yogurt

    Macros for the day

    Calories = 2300
    Protein = 254 ( 43% )
    Carbs = 150 ( 25% )
    Fats = 85 ( 32% )

    Any other questions you can think of I would be glad to answer.
    Success is achieved by doing a little more than you thought you could, and a lot more than anyone else.

  17. #67
    Hulk Smash! LouPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by View 1 View Post
    That depends on what is your goal? Maintain, fat loss, mass, recomp etc...
    Fat loss.

  18. #68
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    there is nothing magic about IF that would require you to eat more or less calories than it usually takes you to lose fat using any other diet.

  19. #69
    Hulk Smash! LouPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryuage View Post
    there is nothing magic about IF that would require you to eat more or less calories than it usually takes you to lose fat using any other diet.
    No one said anything about it being magical, it's just another method to try.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by LouPac View Post
    No one said anything about it being magical, it's just another method to try.
    don't see how you are addressing what I said to you.

    so why are you asking how many calories you should eat? as you would require a different amount of calories to lose weight using IF than any other method.

  21. #71
    Senior Member Gugunir's Avatar
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    I have been trying this out for about 2 weeks, at first not eating breakfast and then training felt odd but I could see a change in my body within a week. Nothing drastic but a bit leaner and more vascular.
    "What is the strongest cure?—Victory."

    -Friedrich Nietzsche

    “You are what your deep, driving desire is. As your desire is, so is your will. As your will is, so is your deed. As your deed is, so is your destiny."

    -Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by LouPac View Post
    Fat loss.
    You would approach this from a calorie stand point just like you would any other diet. As far as saying your 210lbs and how many calories you should take in, we cannot tell you that as everyone is different ( your metabolism, activity level etc... ).

    You need to first find your baseline calorie intake, easiest way is to use a website like www.fitday.com and track everything you eat for a solid 2 weeks or more. Now based upon the time period you will do one of 3 things, lose weight, stay the same weight, or gain weight. Based upon that you will know how many calories you should be taking in and its a simple as subtracting 10-20% from that depending on how fast you want to lose body fat.

    Hope that answers your question.
    Success is achieved by doing a little more than you thought you could, and a lot more than anyone else.

  23. #73
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    Good article we will implement some of this in our training.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Clough View Post
    Intermittent Fasting challenges bodybuilding’s nutritional dogma that in order to stay lean, muscular, and healthy, one must eat small, protein-containing meals every two to three hours.

    If you are sick of carrying around several tuppaware boxes and need a psychological break from the traditional bodybuilding diet, Intermittent Fasting fits the bill nicely.

    Get ready to have your nutritional world turned upside-down.

    READ HERE
    www.blog.mastermindstrengthbuilding.com

  24. #74
    Senior Member Rugg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    Agreed. Four hours without food and I get a severe headache...which only goes away about .5 hour or so after eating.

    16 hours and I'd probably pass out.
    im going to guess you're addicted to sugar. That used to happen to me until I cut out sugary snacks on a daily basis. I still eat them, I just dont eat it as much.

  25. #75
    Wannabebig New Member MJR's Avatar
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    Has anyone else noticed fasted+bcaa training = terrible workout?

    I really WANT this early morning fasted training protocol to work. I train early in the morning and tried the 10g BCAA, but I always feel very low glycogen/weak and bonk during the workout. I never feel strong.

    If I get ONE meal with some carbs/protein (even moderate in size), then I'm fine. I'd actually rather have an early dinner and move the entire eating window earlier in the day and avoid the whole fasted training thing (bcaa or not, makes no difference to me from a performance standpoint even if the MPS is elevated).

    Just curious if anyone has experienced this with the BCAA/fasted training protocol.
    Like, I said, I love IF as long as I get one good meal in me preworkout. So IF is not the issue. Just the fasted/BCAA training.
    Last edited by MJR; 08-07-2010 at 04:46 PM.

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