The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: cross fit?!?!

  1. #1
    john john
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    cross fit?!?!

    i've heard great things about this program, but i'm not sure what it is.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member FFHill's Avatar
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    Check it out. They post a workout every day. I followed it for a while, and puked more than once...

    http://www.crossfit.com/

  4. #3
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    making someone puke isn't hard.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFHill View Post
    Check it out. They post a workout every day. I followed it for a while, and puked more than once...

    http://www.crossfit.com/
    play rugby for a rec league, you'll puke quite a bit.


    Puking has nothing to do with an effective workout, nor does soreness, or tiredness for that matter.
    Last edited by WillNoble; 09-30-2008 at 02:02 PM.

  6. #5
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    It's ok for what it is - an endurance test. It's great for police officers and people who have to perform endurance type activites and would be great for an every once in a while change of pace. It will not, however, get you strong...

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Moore View Post
    It's ok for what it is - an endurance test. It's great for police officers and people who have to perform endurance type activites and would be great for an every once in a while change of pace. It will not, however, get you strong...
    Ever do it? Doubt it, it's not an endurance test. In fact, the better you get, the less endurance you need. I crossfitted for over two years. After lifting for almost 20 years, and being involved with just about anything that came down the road in that time period. Honest no BS assessment is that you will be in really great shape if you do it (assuming a decent diet, of course). You will get stronger. Maybe not as fast as a dedicated strength training program, but that's not what crossfit is anyway. You will get bigger (given enough food). The part that a lot of naysayers leave out (most of whom have not tried it for any length of time) is that you will feel great, and be in great shape. Probably better than you ever have before. And by great shape, I don't mean just size, or bodyfat %. I mean your conditioning will go WAY up. You will be faster. You will probably be able to do things physically that you never could before. Flexibility will be better. I'm 39 years old. I've seen lots of stuff come and go. Crossfit is a great concept. I'm currently adding some weight, so I'm back on a basic strength program until I reach my target weight, then back on crossfit.
    After 2+ years of crossfit:
    Deadlift went up.
    Squat went up.
    Bench went down, WAY down.
    Grip strength went up.
    Cleans went up.
    Pullups, and vertical pulling went WAY up.
    Conditioning went WAY up.
    I looked great.
    I felt even better, mobility was great (NO knee pain, or low back fatigue, or stiffness)

    Don't knock it till you try it. Oh, and it's not easy. Most people won't even be able to finish some of the workouts at first. You'll have to get in shape to even crossfit.
    Last edited by manowar669; 09-30-2008 at 05:49 PM.
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  8. #7
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    what were the before and after lifts?

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reko View Post
    what were the before and after lifts?
    I'm 5'6", 180lbs then, (185lbs currently, looking for about 200lbs by new years)

    Squat (1-3RM) went from 325 to 385, but I could do 325 for 10 reps after crossfit.
    Bench went from 330 down to 260ish, but it's coming back up. I could do BW bench (180lbs then) for 32 straight reps though.
    DL went from 345 to 395 for 5 reps.
    I can do 40 pullups (maybe 12-14 before), and I can still do a pullup with 120lbs on a belt. Lats grew noticeably, like never before.
    45 ring dips (they're a bitch at first if you've never done them), and I can dip with 135lbs on a belt on the rings (I could do it on bars before, but even bodyweight dips on rings are tough until your shoulders get stabilizing strength).
    Overhead press went from 175ish to 240.
    Runs got much faster (I ****ing hate running).
    Conditioning increases were great.

    Increases on the big lifts are not incredible by any means, given the time frame, but considering the increases in other areas of fitness AT THE SAME TIME, and with a decrease in bodyweight (fat) at the same time, I'd consider it noteworthy. My experience is just anecdotal, but so many others have similar experiences.
    Last edited by manowar669; 09-30-2008 at 06:08 PM.
    The Gods taught us to forge Iron so that we would not be slaves-----old Germanic saying

    buy a chin up bar, sell the arm curl bar---Roddy

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by manowar669 View Post
    but so many others have similar experiences.

    Nor is it the magic kool-aid to make you lean and "fit"


    Again I will stress, that similar if not better results could also be seen from a coordinated strength program, coupled with a coordinated conditioning program, i.e. Defranco's WS4SBIII.




    Im not knocking crossfit, but it is not the know all be all.




    Does it help some/most people....yes

    Will it increase maximal strength........ possibly, however doubtful

    Will it increase strength endurance...... yes

    Will it improve aerobic endurance...... absolutely

    Will I shed bodyfat.... again thats speculative, due to everyone being unique

    If Im interested in size and strength, should I use it?.... no

    Would it be better than playing a sport and training consistently.... depends on the situation
    Last edited by WillNoble; 09-30-2008 at 06:14 PM.

  11. #10
    Wannabebig Member cougar23's Avatar
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    so this could be could for d-backs and a wr in football?

  12. #11
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    If one of my football kids did this I would kick them off the team... Football and Crossfit do not mix, as much as they wish it would, it doesn't


    for football, again, I would suggest Defranco's WS4SBIII, or Starting Strength from Rippetoe, but Defrancos WS4SBIII is geared specifically for football and a much more complete program.


    http://www.elitefts.com/ws4sb/WS4SB.pdf

  13. #12
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    Also another great football programming article, although a tad more advanced in the setup is this one, on the development of a S&C program at a major D1 university

    by Ryan Martin


    http://www.elitefts.com/documents/d1_football.htm

  14. #13
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    I train at a CF affiliate (though just for the equipment and atmosphere) and I'm inclined to agree with Will. Even the owner would agree with Will. CF is a phenomenal conditioning/GPP "split". As far as people that don't require a lot of specificity (ie LEO, .MIL, First Responders etc) Crossfit is about as good as it comes. It as at this point that the benefits begin to diminish. CF, especially as seen on the main site, just doesn't have the specificity required to excel in any one thing. You get really good at being mediocre at everything but you don't stand out in any one arena. Even the winners at the CF Games this year didn't train using a CF split. They did heavy Oly lifts and then did some conditioning on the side. In order to stand out, you've got to have a much more narrow focus than the HQ site allows.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    I train at a CF affiliate (though just for the equipment and atmosphere) and I'm inclined to agree with Will. Even the owner would agree with Will. CF is a phenomenal conditioning/GPP "split". As far as people that don't require a lot of specificity (ie LEO, .MIL, First Responders etc) Crossfit is about as good as it comes. It as at this point that the benefits begin to diminish. CF, especially as seen on the main site, just doesn't have the specificity required to excel in any one thing. You get really good at being mediocre at everything but you don't stand out in any one arena. Even the winners at the CF Games this year didn't train using a CF split. They did heavy Oly lifts and then did some conditioning on the side. In order to stand out, you've got to have a much more narrow focus than the HQ site allows.

    Thanks for this, again I'm not bashing CF. Its just not for everyone. Much in the same vein that football or rugby, or PL, or OLY, or triathlons, or strongman, isn't for everyone.

  16. #15
    Wannabebig Member cougar23's Avatar
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    cool, im currently doing light workouts and will start defrancos during the offseason im just always looking for different stuff for potentially better improvement.

  17. #16
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    trust me, Defrancos is proven... It works, that man has put a ****pile of guys into the NFL and the NCAA

    If he was up and running when I was still playing ball I would've moved to New Jersey every summer just to train there.


    here is just a few of the guys who trained there:


    http://www.defrancostraining.com/roster/roster.htm

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by manowar669 View Post
    Increases on the big lifts are not incredible by any means, given the time frame, but considering the increases in other areas of fitness AT THE SAME TIME, and with a decrease in bodyweight (fat) at the same time, I'd consider it noteworthy. My experience is just anecdotal, but so many others have similar experiences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    I train at a CF affiliate (though just for the equipment and atmosphere) and I'm inclined to agree with Will. Even the owner would agree with Will. CF is a phenomenal conditioning/GPP "split". As far as people that don't require a lot of specificity (ie LEO, .MIL, First Responders etc) Crossfit is about as good as it comes. It as at this point that the benefits begin to diminish. CF, especially as seen on the main site, just doesn't have the specificity required to excel in any one thing. You get really good at being mediocre at everything but you don't stand out in any one arena. Even the winners at the CF Games this year didn't train using a CF split. They did heavy Oly lifts and then did some conditioning on the side. In order to stand out, you've got to have a much more narrow focus than the HQ site allows.
    Pretty much.
    I will never do cross fit because it won't do anything for my PL game. So long as I compete there, it won't be part of my routine. I may, and have, suggested it to other people who are just getting in because its is easy (just go to the website) and it covers everything like you said, so its great for beginners who have goals of "tone up lose weight get back in shape and get a 6 pack". But for me and the guys I train with, no thanks.
    Last edited by Reko; 09-30-2008 at 07:22 PM.

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    Hey I want a 6 pack!!!

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Moore View Post
    Hey I want a 6 pack!!!
    I'll bring one over the next time we watch a fight.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Moore View Post
    Hey I want a 6 pack!!!
    fat chance, chubtastic


    your in the same boat I am


    overweight Rhodestown wanna-be's
    Last edited by WillNoble; 09-30-2008 at 07:38 PM.

  22. #21
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    Ok, well everyone misinterpreted my posts. The OP asked about crossfit. I told him my experience. I'm not preaching it. In fact, my "data" shows it's not great for overall strength and mass gains. If you want to be a big dude, my advice, and my experience is to use Starting strength, or a similar strength program, and a boatload of calories. Rip's suggestion of GOMAD + starting strength is solid, and that's what I'm doing now, even at my age/experience (actually using the texas method is working better for me).
    There's a reason I don't suggest WSB for newbies, and that's because the principles/templates can be complicated for newbies to grasp. That's all.
    The Gods taught us to forge Iron so that we would not be slaves-----old Germanic saying

    buy a chin up bar, sell the arm curl bar---Roddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by manowar669 View Post
    There's a reason I don't suggest WSB for newbies, and that's because the principles/templates can be complicated for newbies to grasp. That's all.

    WS4SB is about as easy as it gets.

  24. #23
    IRL my name is Trent Hazerboy's Avatar
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    I recommend crossfit to all my friends who come to me wanting to get in shape, but not "get to bulky or big. Just toned."

    Can't make everyone strength train. :-p

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by manowar669 View Post
    There's a reason I don't suggest WSB for newbies, and that's because the principles/templates can be complicated for newbies to grasp. That's all.
    Westside and WS4SB are 2 different things - kinda like how you told me i didn't know about crossfit...

  26. #25
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    Football and CrossFit

    Quote Originally Posted by WillNoble View Post
    Nor is it the magic kool-aid to make you lean and "fit"


    Again I will stress, that similar if not better results could also be seen from a coordinated strength program, coupled with a coordinated conditioning program, i.e. Defranco's WS4SBIII.




    Im not knocking crossfit, but it is not the know all be all.




    Does it help some/most people....yes

    Will it increase maximal strength........ possibly, however doubtful

    Will it increase strength endurance...... yes

    Will it improve aerobic endurance...... absolutely

    Will I shed bodyfat.... again thats speculative, due to everyone being unique

    If Im interested in size and strength, should I use it?.... no

    Would it be better than playing a sport and training consistently.... depends on the situation
    I played division one football and have been CrossFitting for over 3 years. I would have given anything to have this type of program to increase my strength, speed, power and endurance. In my opinion it is ignorance to think that CrossFit cannot help football players in all positions. The Oly Lifting that is incorporated into CrossFit and CrossFit Football is designed in part by Mark Ripptoe - funny how he owns a gym and believes in CrossFit completely. At a recent CrossFit compition 10 athletes did 290 up to 355 lbs Clean and Jerk. Those are impressive numbers no matter what. Watch the attached for more feedback.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vFU9...ayer_embedded#!

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