The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    Leptin down regulating is not a survival mechanism by means of appetite suppression but exactly the opposite...
    I wasn't saying that down regulation of leptin causes appetite suppression, as that is definitely the opposite effect of leptin. When its down people are able to eat large amounts of food without getting full. The appetite suppresion mainly comes from the stomach shrinking and this is why when you initially increase someone's food intake its hard for them to eat.

  2. #27
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belial View Post
    The only thing that bothers me here is that there are plenty of well-understood and well-documented reasons for everything mentioned in the original post, and none of them include the phrase "metabolic damage".
    "Metabolic Damage" was a term coined by Scott Abel based on all the clients he had and continues to work with that has done damage to their metabolism. There are only so many studys you will find the rest comes to real world experience and working with these individuals. Science is an important part of this industry but if you base everything off it you could be missing out . All great coaches go by principles but work with clients based on what they have seen happen in the real world not just on paper.

  3. #28
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    This appetite suppression makes sense. Before I started training I would eat an amount of food and feel full as in I would feel like I was to puke if I was to eat more. I didn't want to be as lean as I was and I wanted to gain a little fat so I started over eating, when I felt like I was about to puke I would eat more a few hours later to try to bulk and in the first two days I started doing this my body became less restricted to taking in more food.

    I went to a buffet 3-4 months ago and I ate to the point where it felt like the food wasn't going down anymore and breathing was getting difficult since my stomach was bloated with so much food and as if I was about to puke, but for some reason I didn't feel full even though I ate to the point where breathing was difficult and the food felt as if it was stuck. Anyone had a similar experience before?

    I usually eat multiple meals throughout the day (mainly so my body always has enough calories and protein constantly for recovery) and I am never hungry or full and neither does my body fat fluctuate throughout the day, but I am usually weighing lesser when I wake up in comparison to bed time because the body uses a lot of calories in sleep for metabolic processes and because you sweat a little at night, as well as because we humans exhale water vapor.
    Last edited by Murderous; 01-08-2012 at 04:26 AM.
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  4. #29
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    Pretty sure I have another victim of metabolic damage. A 42 year old female came to me about 7 weeks ago. Before she had worked with a trainer that had her doing hours of cardio per day and eating 1,000 calories per day. She got in great shape down to about 115lbs, she said the results were fast too. Now she's 140lbs and struggling to lose any weight. I asked her if her body sends her hunger cues, she said no. I increased her calories to 1420, she said she felt like she was stuffing her face and feeling very full from this. 6 weeks later she's finally starting to get hunger cues. However, despite intense strength training and interval training her weight has stayed the same. I've increased her calories to 1620 now. I'm confident things will start looking up for her soon as her body is sending hunger cues. I'll keep you guys updated.
    Last edited by ThomasG; 02-22-2012 at 02:54 PM.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasG View Post
    Pretty sure I have another victim of metabolic damage. A 42 year old female came to me about 7 weeks ago. Before she had worked with a trainer that had her doing hours of cardio per day and eating 1,000 calories per day. She got in great shape down to about 115lbs, she said the results were fast too. Now she's 140lbs and struggling to lose any weight. I asked her if her body sends her hunger cues, she said no. I increased her calories to 1420, she said she felt like she was stuffing her face and feeling very full from this. 6 weeks later she's finally starting to get hunger cues. However, despite intense strength training and interval training her weight has stayed the same. I've increased her calories to 1620 now. I'm confident things will start looking up for her soon as her body is sending hunger cues. I'll keep you guys updated.
    Yes please do! I've gotten myself in the same situation and would love to hear there's a solution...

  6. #31
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Just remember not everyone will respond quickly. It could take over a year so just be upfront with any client so they understand.

  7. #32
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    Anyone who has ever heard me talk knows the dangers of absolute caloric deprivation. Combined with more exercise, this leads to eventual metabolic stress and dysfunction. The result is that within a few years, women and men are out of the sport and getting fatter and fatter each year, even though they stay on consistent diet and training protocols. Think of those "before and after" pictures in reverse!
    Recent discussions with colleagues and their own observations and feedback from other colleagues reveal I am not the only one noticing this pattern. The saddest part of it is that the individuals who usually must endure the most to get contest ready are the ones who will suffer more from metabolic damage in the near future.

  8. #33
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Cress View Post
    "Metabolic Damage" was a term coined by Scott Abel based on all the clients he had and continues to work with that has done damage to their metabolism. There are only so many studys you will find the rest comes to real world experience and working with these individuals. Science is an important part of this industry but if you base everything off it you could be missing out . All great coaches go by principles but work with clients based on what they have seen happen in the real world not just on paper.
    Congratulations to Scott on successfully combining two words. It is still an inaccurate and redundant term, being applied to describe an already well understood set of clinical conditions. The fact that these conditions are complicated, involve multiple systems, and are quite frankly beyond the expertise of the majority of "trainers" does not make them any less valid. (I'm not just picking on trainers- many physicians lack expertise in multiple fields of study as well)

    "Science is an important part of this industry". Science is not part of this industry, science is its essence- hypothesis, testing, discussion, then rejection of or support for the hypothesis. "Science" doesn't mean "Book learnin'!", science is the process by which we all study our chosen fields. Real world experience is great, but needs to be combined with rigorous, continuing study of the available medical literature (or in the case of "metabolic damage", a few basic textbooks), so that you're not slowly reinventing the wheel. (Which is the case here)
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  9. #34
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    I am currently suffering from metabolic damage and could really use some advice. A year ago I was over training on too few calories. I didnt see it at the time until all hell broke loose. I was a healthy eater but obsessed with exercise. I was experiencing bloating so I went and saw a nutritionist who removed dairy, gluten, soy, protein powder (a big staple in my diet) etc. Within 4 weeks I went from 108lbs at 5'6 to 135lbs. I stopped getting my period, started breaking out and now I am low in DHEA, testosterone, progesterone, and am hypothyroid. I take Dhea drops, bio identical hormone creams, desiccated thyroid. I am 30years old. I didnt know what was happing off the hop so I started trying to diet more eat less. That didnt work so I upped the weights lessened the reps. Still nothing so I upped the reps lowered weight and so on. It wasnt until 4 weeks ago i quit the gym and joined Bikram yoga. I have been eatin between 1700-2200 calories for the past 6 months. Is this the right track for me? Should I go back to weights or do I need to rest from the gym? Am I eating enough or too much? This is so confusing and heart breaking. I have spent so much money on specialists, personal trainers etc that have not only not helped but made me worse. Thank you

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    The only thing that bothers me here is that there are plenty of well-understood and well-documented reasons for everything mentioned in the original post, and none of them include the phrase "metabolic damage".
    Thank you! People eat like shit, train horribly and they don't get results. i can see some issues in the competitive lfiters (bodybuilders, figure etc...), but most people are just lazy and eat like shit. Damage? I just can't jump on board with this at all. It's called fat and lazy syndrome.

  11. #36
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    Thank you! People eat like shit, train horribly and they don't get results. i can see some issues in the competitive lfiters (bodybuilders, figure etc...), but most people are just lazy and eat like shit. Damage? I just can't jump on board with this at all. It's called fat and lazy syndrome.
    Trust me there are plenty of individuals besides competitive bodybuilders and figure athletes who are causing damage to their metabolism. You are not getting what was said, these people are doing way to much cardio and training to go along with extreme dieting. It has absolutley nothing to do with people being fat and lazy and eating shit, its the complete opposite.

    These individuals are not only damaged somewhat physiologically but also mentally and emotionaly. All 3 of these play a major role.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Cress View Post
    Trust me there are plenty of individuals besides competitive bodybuilders and figure athletes who are causing damage to their metabolism. You are not getting what was said, these people are doing way to much cardio and training to go along with extreme dieting. It has absolutley nothing to do with people being fat and lazy and eating shit, its the complete opposite.

    These individuals are not only damaged somewhat physiologically but also mentally and emotionaly. All 3 of these play a major role.
    No, I get it. I was a personal trainer for 10 years. I saw it all. I saw nobody who worked too hard and trained too much. I saw people who trained improperly and people who lied about their eating habits, as does every client who doesn't get results. Now I do agree most do way too much cardio and not nearly enough weight training, not to mention the weight training they did do was just a waste. I also saw people eat/follow just terrible diets, but, metabolic damage because their training sucks? Sorry, that dog just doesn't hunt. Maybe that's a catch phrase you use to get clients.

  13. #38
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    I saw it all. I saw nobody who worked too hard and trained too much. I saw people who trained improperly and people who lied about their eating habits, as does every client who doesn't get results. Maybe that's a catch phrase you use to get clients.
    Obviously you haven't seen it all. If you truly believe there are no inviduals out there who go to extremes with diets and training whether it be cardio or weights then thats your choice to believe that. I have worked with many of these types of individuals and so has many coaches I know.

    Now as far as your smartass comment about "its a line i use to get clients" is not needed. If you can't discuss things like an adult without throwing jabs then just leave this thread to those who want help and have questions and keep your comments to yourself. I have been a coach for 14 years now and I don't say catch phrases to get clients or tell them what they want to hear like a lot of trainers do. I don't sugar coat things and am always upfront and the first one to admit when I don't know something. I take my job very seriously and my clients know that.

  14. #39
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    I believe what Allen is saying is possible. I know someone that lifted with us for awhile when I lived in Lakeland that had this kind of issue. Except in his case, he had been a lot leaner and had competed in powerlifting in his late teens to early twenties. Then he had done almost nothing but work and party for 10 years and got up to a real fat 340lbs. or so. I had met him when he was already down to about 300 and he was eating like 1500 calories per day and doing like 2-3 hours of cardio and then would lift a few times per week too. He got down to about 260-265 for awhile and was still fat but a lot less so for sure. Then he said for a long time he couldn't lose any more weight unless he ate less than 1400 calories or something like that. Well, after this he found out his thyroid function was abnormal and had been prescribed thyroid medication. It was adjusted over a few weeks to the right amount and worked pretty much instantly. Then he said he could eat about 3500-4000 calories and stay around the same weight and a little less to continue to lose weight slowly. However, he soon decided this would be a good reason to cheat a lot and party a lot again and he didn't train with us too much anymore after that, but he did stay around that weight still regardless. I have heard recently that my other training partner had seen him recently and he has ended up losing another 50lbs. or so over the last year, which was around his goal. So I guess he got back to working out and dieting again.

    But my point is that:
    1. Yes I do believe it is or at least can be true.
    2. But, people are lazy and cheat and then lie about. He would talk about eating clean and only 1500 calories then go out and then admit later that he drank another 2000 calories worth of alcohol that night. Or would disappear for 2 weeks and then say he went on vacation and ate at buffets the whole time. There were usually phases though of being motivated for awhile then not giving a shit for awhile.
    3. And thyroid and/or other hormonal medications should be a near immediate solution along with actually following a healthy diet.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Cress View Post
    Obviously you haven't seen it all. If you truly believe there are no inviduals out there who go to extremes with diets and training whether it be cardio or weights then thats your choice to believe that. I have worked with many of these types of individuals and so has many coaches I know.

    Now as far as your smartass comment about "its a line i use to get clients" is not needed. If you can't discuss things like an adult without throwing jabs then just leave this thread to those who want help and have questions and keep your comments to yourself. I have been a coach for 14 years now and I don't say catch phrases to get clients or tell them what they want to hear like a lot of trainers do. I don't sugar coat things and am always upfront and the first one to admit when I don't know something. I take my job very seriously and my clients know that.
    It wasn't a smartass comment. It was an observation. You just may not like what I have to say. I see people like you all the time. You come to places like this and spout ridiculousness about metabolic damage blah, blah, blah. In this day and age people are trying to sell something. Why would you be any different? Now, maybe you are different. But, coming on here and rambling like you've uncovered the secret is just retarded. There are SOME people out there that have the issues you speak of. However, they are the exception, not the rule. Been in this business a lot longer than you. Part of the reason I changed venues.

  16. #41
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    It wasn't a smartass comment. It was an observation. You just may not like what I have to say. I see people like you all the time. You come to places like this and spout ridiculousness about metabolic damage blah, blah, blah. In this day and age people are trying to sell something. Why would you be any different? Now, maybe you are different. But, coming on here and rambling like you've uncovered the secret is just retarded. There are SOME people out there that have the issues you speak of. However, they are the exception, not the rule. Been in this business a lot longer than you. Part of the reason I changed venues.
    I apologize if you weren't coming across that way, it just seemed like it. I never said these type of people are the rule by any means, I am just stating they are out there. I haven't been rambling and the original post was from one of my mentors, Scott Abel, that I thought I would share. The main purpose being to keep individuals from going to extremes and know if you do there may be consequences. As I said you don't have to agree with it, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have seen it so that is why I posted about it. Not once have I in this thread said anyone should work with me to help them. My job as a sponsored At Large Athlete/Coach is to put out free info to our memebers, not sell my services. The results I get for clients does that on its own. Quality over quantity.
    Last edited by Allen Cress; 08-03-2012 at 08:42 AM.

  17. #42
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Come on, hug it out guys.
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  18. #43
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.V View Post
    Come on, hug it out guys.
    LOL !!!

  19. #44
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    Many people have become so busy and / or do not know to eat, they forget to eat too. Once you are in an extreme so long hunger signal, not often to the calorie deficit.
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  20. #45
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    Hi!
    Hopefully someone can answer my questions. I got hypothyroidism two years ago. Before that I had dieting for 20 years almost all the time. Before I got sick I was on low carb-diet first time and it last for 8 months. I have managed to maintain a normal weight 130lb (6,3 feet) but I can't lose any fat (I have it about 28%). I have been doing cardio for 5 hours in a week and weight lifting 3 hours in a week. I am going to cut 3 hours off it in next months.
    Now I have started to increase my calories slowly from 800 to 1200 and I am getting hunger signals. I haven't have those in years. So, when I got hunger signal should I increase my calories? Those signals comes often in evenings after 1 hour when I have eaten all my meals. Should I increase my calories immediately or wait? I increased my calories about week ago. Can I do the increasing this fast? I am so lost in here.. help me please.
    Last edited by Doll; 12-11-2012 at 12:25 AM.

  21. #46
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doll View Post
    Hi!
    Hopefully someone can answer my questions. I got hypothyroidism two years ago. Before that I had dieting for 20 years almost all the time. Before I got sick I was on low carb-diet first time and it last for 8 months. I have managed to maintain a normal weight 130lb (6,3 feet) but I can't lose any fat (I have it about 28%). I have been doing cardio for 5 hours in a week and weight lifting 3 hours in a week. I am going to cut 3 hours off it in next months.
    Now I have started to increase my calories slowly from 800 to 1200 and I am getting hunger signals. I haven't have those in years. So, when I got hunger signal should I increase my calories? Those signals comes often in evenings after 1 hour when I have eaten all my meals. Should I increase my calories immediately or wait? I increased my calories about week ago. Can I do the increasing this fast? I am so lost in here.. help me please.
    A lot to work with here..and hoping some better suited guys with nutrition can jump in here also:

    First off..your calorie intake is almost scary to me. You're most likely not losing any more weight (Which is a whole other issue since I think being 6 foot 3 and 130lb is way to light) because your body is simply in starvation mode. Your calories are so low your body is just doing its best to hold on to everything. (In essence) You say you want to lose BF but even if thats successful you'd been in the 115-120 lb range which is just ridiculous for your height. I wouldn't be surprised if some areas of sickness for you are being caused by it. So as far as a plan of action:

    -I would first make sure you are up to pace with your doc as far as your health goes.
    -Cut the cardio to a bare minimum and get on a simple workout schedule to build on some muscle which will aid you in your weight and BF in the long run.
    -Continue SLOWLY (cant stress that enough) adding a couple hundred calories to your diet every couple weeks. Cut the "Low-carb, whatever" diets. Its unnecessary and bullshit. You can be successful eating a wide array of normal foods as long as you are keeping track of those calories and nutrients.

    It is my opinion that once you get a higher maintenance calorie level with some added muscle and weight that you can begin your quest to lose some excess Body Fat. This will take some time...but I think it by far a better option.

    Hoping some others will give their inputs on this too.
    Last edited by Jonathan E; 12-11-2012 at 01:55 AM.
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  22. #47
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    I just realized this metabolic damage thing 2 days ago.. luckily I started to increase my calories earlier. I am not anymore on a low carb-diet and never will be again. And like I said I am going to cut 3 hours of cardio off as soon as possible, 1 hour a week.
    I read instructions from some website from this problem and it said that I should not drop all the cardio at once because then my body will gain lot of fat especially when I have dieting for years. I am a girl and thats why I want to do this increasing of my calories by taking as less as fat that is possible. I cut all the cardio last spring when I started to lift weights and I gained a lot of fat and I don't want to be in that situation again. I managed to change my body composition little bit by adding cardio. That's why I am going to keep little amount of cardio in my exercises and just increase calories. Hypothyroidism is a disease which has huge affect to slow metabolism down and that's why I can't do everything so quickly or drop all the cardio off.

    I watched a youtube video (below) about things that I should increase my carbs to my meals after exercises slowly (adding just 10g of carbs) in one month until carbs are up to 300 or over. And this recovery would take about 1-2 years. I know that this problem do not solve fast because I have caused it to my self during past 20 years.
    My aim is grow some muscles after I have increased my calories. I know that muscles do not grow if my calories are too low. Sorry about my english it is not my mother language so I hope you can understand what I am saying.

    I just wanted some instructions from someone who has work with this problem before and who knows how to avoid gaining so much fat. I am a newbie and I have started lifting weights just 10 months ago. Here is a link to the instructions. What do you think about his method?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHHzi...layer_embedded

  23. #48
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doll View Post
    I just realized this metabolic damage thing 2 days ago.. luckily I started to increase my calories earlier. I am not anymore on a low carb-diet and never will be again. And like I said I am going to cut 3 hours of cardio off as soon as possible, 1 hour a week.
    I read instructions from some website from this problem and it said that I should not drop all the cardio at once because then my body will gain lot of fat especially when I have dieting for years. I am a girl and thats why I want to do this increasing of my calories by taking as less as fat that is possible. I cut all the cardio last spring when I started to lift weights and I gained a lot of fat and I don't want to be in that situation again. I managed to change my body composition little bit by adding cardio. That's why I am going to keep little amount of cardio in my exercises and just increase calories. Hypothyroidism is a disease which has huge affect to slow metabolism down and that's why I can't do everything so quickly or drop all the cardio off.

    I watched a youtube video (below) about things that I should increase my carbs to my meals after exercises slowly (adding just 10g of carbs) in one month until carbs are up to 300 or over. And this recovery would take about 1-2 years. I know that this problem do not solve fast because I have caused it to my self during past 20 years.
    My aim is grow some muscles after I have increased my calories. I know that muscles do not grow if my calories are too low. Sorry about my english it is not my mother language so I hope you can understand what I am saying.

    I just wanted some instructions from someone who has work with this problem before and who knows how to avoid gaining so much fat. I am a newbie and I have started lifting weights just 10 months ago. Here is a link to the instructions. What do you think about his method?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHHzi...layer_embedded
    A few things:

    1-I agree, do not just drop all your cardio all at once since you have been doing a decent amount for a long time. Wane off it slowly but do not be afraid to cut it all eventually.

    2-When you say you dropped cardio and took on weight lifting and gained a lot of fat, it might be possible you're just not used to seeing new muscle growth. The only way you would see fat gain substantially is if you really increased your calories which was far from what you were actually doing..

    3-cardio really doesn't change your figure in my opinion..diet does. So this brings me back to point 1 and 2.

    Overall that guy is pretty accurate with what he is saying..basically saying your issue in a nutshell. Your metabolism is most likely fucked with the condition of your training and diet for the extent of time you've employed them. Again..I would stick to the basics:

    Start tracking your calories and start taking an extra 200-300 a week. You should be aiming for a pound or even two a week. Once you stall at your bodyweight, add another 200-300 cals. While doing this you need to be on a good strength training program in order to put these extra calories to use. Search through these forums for some ideas. Nothing crazy, just some compound movements to get some muscle on you. YOU WILL gain some fat and appear to be 'bigger.' Don't fret. You need to remember your end goal and how you need get there. You getting 'bigger' will just give you something to work with in the long run and is a necessary bi-product of trying to fix your metabolism which is the main issue at hand. Continue to wane off your cardio also as stated during this time. Like the dude in the video said: once you get to a healthier bodyweight with some extra mass on your frame..and a better metabolic rate..and overall a healthier you..you can begin your desired quest to lose body fat. Just remember that it will take time and work. As crazy as it sounds..you need to eat more and get bigger to get 'smaller' in the long run.
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  24. #49
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    I see many red flags in your situtation. Calories are way to low, especially for your height, regardless of how much fat or muscle you have. Weighing 130 lbs at that height is absolutely asking for trouble. I don't know why or how you ended up at this weight but things need to change ASAP. You need guidance in this type of situation whether its from a doctor or coach who has experience with this. Mentally and physically this will take a toll on your body.

    There is no one way to fix things and anyone saying there is is full of shit. I was mentored under the coach who coined this termed and has done a ton of research on the matter. Realize you need to get out of the mentality of "dieting" and traditional cardio is definitley soemthing you do not need. Its hard to say what exactly you need to be doing without a proper assessment, but in general eat more food, don't worry about timing carbs or meals and get away from cardio. You don't need to burning off any more calories, weight training is enough at this point.

  25. #50
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Cress View Post
    There is no one way to fix things and anyone saying there is is full of shit.
    I hope this wasn't directed at me. The pointers I listed I think will help her for the time being in order to get on the right track. Even if they are baby steps.
    Bench: 315x3
    Squat: 455x2
    Dead: 500

    Currently 6 ft, 230 lb.

    "All people dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous ones, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

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