Who here uses periodization in their training?
I know there are a lot of 5/3/1 followers, SS, Westside, Texas Methed and others..
Does anyone still use generic old school periodization?
I've found this: http://www.sportsperformancecoach.co..._generator.xls
Looks interesting. I'm sure I can perform all of the earlier weeks weight/sets/reps.. though later on it looks brutal. Based on my current maxes, it says it'll add 60lbs to my squat, 40lbs to my bench and 60lbs to my deadlift in just 12 weeks.. I'm skeptical, but I'm always up for a challenge.
I would probably add some speed work as well, just so I can do band work and overall, I enjoy speed work..
I've been enjoying my 10 day mini-cycles. 3 on 2 off 3 on 2 off, whereas I train a muscle once every 5 days. Typically I'll do 2 speed days, 1 power then 2 power days and 1 speed day.. as to separate heavy squats and heavy deads to separate sides of the mini-cycle.
Anyways, what are your thoughts on periodization?
I would die without it. I don't understand alot of my programs I just do it, but ive picked up a 4 week pattern of hard, harder, really ****ing hard, and not so hard.
Being a strong teenager means nothing.
My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.
Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.
I am using Block Periodization and I am about 1/2 way through a 12 week cycle and I can tell you that it looks nothing like that spreadsheet, which looks like a straight linear periodization. Even knocking 10% off my maxes the numbers called for in that spreadsheet are ridiculous at the end of the cycle. To put 160 pounds on a raw total in 3 months is unrealistic. To use that as a template AND add in speed work is probably not advisable either. The program might work well for a relatively untrained adolescent who is lifting in the off season, and who would likely illicit a great deal of the gains in their lifts through neurological adaptations. For someone at your level I dont think it would be effective.
My impressions so far of block periodization are that I feel strong all the time, but at the same time I dont really know if I have gotten stronger because I have not taken any near maximal lifts. The volume I have been doing is something I am not accustomed to and I feel like it has helped me put on some size. I plan on sticking with this at the very least through the summer. You need to put the time in to see if it will work for you no matter what program your on. If you have patience, are prone to set backs and injuries in your training, and can deal with not going for a max every week than this is a great way to structure your training. Believe me, you will be lifting heavy weights. I am not even into the heaviest cycle and last week I was scheduled to pull 6 sets of 3 reps at around 600 from the low pin (estimated max around 725). That is the type of volume I have never done and believe me it gets tiring and will make you grow. Could I have worked up to a heavy single using 50 pound jumps? Sure, but I dont think I was getting the volume in I needed to get stronger.
"you would use:
Accumulation: 50 - 75%
Transmutation: 75% - 90%
Sets and reps vary greatly depending on the individual. Generally when I do it I usually don't go over 6-8 (although I do some high rep sets sometimes) in accumulation, in transmutation usually nothing over 4, and in realization usually all singles. As far as what I base it off of, it is usually from Prilepin's chart.
What you need to realize is that the sets and reps aren't set in stone and all that matters are the principles of accumulation, transmutation, and realization. As long as this is in order, the blocks are fine (i.e. you shouldn't be pulling heavy singles in an accumulation block because most of what you are trying to do is make gains in general, muscular capabilities and work capacity. If you did this you would be training at too high of an intensity that would be taxing the CNS and wouldn't increase GPP, induce hypertrophy, etc.)"
So in my current cycle I have 4 weeks of Accumulation, followed by a deload / restoration block, 3 weeks of Transmutation, followed by a deload / restoration block, and 2 weeks of realization, followed by a deload / restoration block, and then the meet the week after that.
Generally speaking your accumulation blocks should be without gear and gear should be added in the transmutation blocks and full gear in the realization blocks. As a guideline you want to base your sets and reps off of the ranges listed in Prilepin's chart. So for example lets say you are using 85% of your max, you would want to hit somewhere around 15 total reps (the optimal total listed on the chart), so you could use 5 sets of 3 reps at 85% as a guideline. If you squatted 500 in your last meet, and your goal is to hit 550 at your next meet, that is fine, but you can't be too aggressive and base the %'s off of strength that is not there.
Again, I am new to this type of programming and it requires a bit more thought than following 5/3/1 or some other structured program. Check out Jeremy Frey's log on EliteFTS as well as his Q&A responses on block periodization. He and Landon Evans have a book coming out on the subject soon.
I use periodization in my programming, but it's not the traditional linear block progression, instead the different phases tend to overlap while the loads are variated. What I really like about this type of training is the amount of reps I get with the three lifts along with the increase in work capacity. Initially the volume was rough, but after I adapted things took off. I'm definitely looking forward to Frey's book being released; also I think Tuchscherer's book is a good read.
Taken from the link above: http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=108911&tid=
This was a recommneded percentage cycle in one of your answers:
week 1- 60-65% 6x5
week 2- 65-70%% 5x5
week 3- 70-75% 5x4
week 4- 73-79% 4x4
week 5- Deload 65% 2x3
Week 6- 77-80% 6x3
Week 7- 82-85% 5x3
Week 8- 86%-89% 5x2
Week 9- Deload 75% 2x2
Week 10- 90-92% 4x2
Week 11- 95% 3x1
Week 12- 97-100% 2x1
Week 13- Deload 70% 2x2
Week 14- Test
What would be an example of the amount of assistance exercises one should perform for each week? Should the assistance exercises sets and reps change intensities/volume as the main exercises do from week to week?
Last edited by bluelew; 12-23-2009 at 09:40 AM.
during the first phase(accumulation) you should have 4-6 assistance movements for 4 sets of 10 or so reps. Volume is key in the accumulation phase. During transmutation phase you can cut back the assistance volume to 2-4 movements for 3 sets of 10 or so reps.
The thing about block training is that you can manipulate it and individualize/customize it for you, so long as you are staying within the principles of each block. Whatever your weak points are, you can try to bring them up.
I do agree about reduced volume during a Transmutation phase with the assistance work. It's a pretty challenging phase, and not as much support work is necessary due to the nature of the block. That doesn't mean it's not at all important, but just not as important as it was originally.
Generally speaking, you are moving from general > general-specific > specific in terms of the exercise selection, which is why there is a greater focus on assistance work and things that train the muscles used but not necessarily in the same motor pattern as the comp lift.
Thanks for catching that. But now my question is why wouldnt someone interested in getting stronger want to have that extra volume to improve technique, add mass, and endurance? what would their focus be in the first block?
In Transmutation, the assistance work is cut down quite a bit. A workout might go like this:
85% @ 5x3 (use of varying amounts of gear can be included if needed)
Deadlifts standing on 3 inch mats
80% @ 4 x 4
GHR's or Lunges or Reverse Hypers, GM's, etc.
and maybe 1 or 2 more assistance exercises, depending on what you have coming up in the block, your work capacity, and fatigue level. Abs should be included somewhere as well.
I know some people who go in, get the main work and abs done, and then hit the accessory stuff the next day.
In a Realization block, it's pretty much heavy singles or doubles (probably more singles, especially towards the end of the block) at or above 90%. Assistance work is cut back to almost none or very little.
I think that Landon Evans gives certain rep ranges for assistance work. I don't know if that is "get in 50-75 reps of triceps" or "get in 70 reps of elbows out extensions for the triceps." I would think it would be more of the former, though, if that is what he does.
Hopefully this will give you some ideas. Also, please keep in mind that I am no expert. What I learned came from reading Issurin's "Block Periodization: Breakthrough in Sport Training" and Mike Tuchscherer's "Reactive Training Manual," and also from spending a lot of time combing over the logs of Frey, Joey Smith, and, to a lesser extent, Jason Pegg. I also have people who I train with on occasion that are familiar with it and pointed me in the right direction.
Last edited by jbrin0tk; 12-23-2009 at 10:36 AM.
I guess what I was trying to say is that the block model is and was originally applied to many different types of sports where those weren't the goals, so they can vary.
The main thing to remember is that there is no one set way of doing it. I probably made it out to sound like what you said was flat wrong and that's not what I meant at all, haha. It's just that each person needs to be looked at individually, especially if it's a different sport where the goals can be different.
How would the effects of using chains/bands/boards be factored in to periodization. If you are working off %'s of a max the use of bands and chains would change the equation? For example, in week 2 if I'm working at 70% of my max (say 100lbs) I would be doing sets of 5 reps at 70lbs. If I used 50lbs of weight and 20lbs of chains it would have a different effect on my body than 70lbs of straight weight. How would you factor it? Also, how would you work in 2 or 3 board presses to the equation? 70lbs of full range bench would have a different effect on your body than 70lbs 3 board press. In week 2, would you do 70% of your 3 board press max?
Last edited by bluelew; 12-23-2009 at 12:27 PM.
I'm not sure I'm understanding your question regarding the use of bands and chains. In one of the other posts, I talked about moving from general > gen/specific > specific.
General would be Accumulation (lots of general movements that train the muscles used, but not necessarily in the same pattern)
General/Specific would be used more in Transmutation (movements where muscles are trained in lifts that are similar to the comp lifts i.e. box squats with bands, 3 board presses, floor presses, etc.)
Specific = Realization. You will be doing the comp lifts at high percentages
Now I like to use the specific lift throughout the whole training cycle. For me, performing the comp lifts regularly at varying volumes and intensities has been great. So I would use the comp lift in each of the three blocks. Again, this is not set in stone by any means, and I am no expert...it's just one way to do it.
Bands, chains, boards, and floors lol, would factor in more during Transmutation. If you look at the squatting example I gave, the first is the comp lift (squat @ 85%), the second is a general specific lift (deadlifts standing on mats) in that it mimics the movement pattern of a comp deadlift, but is obviously different.
You could change that to be deadlifts with chains off the floor, or reverse band deadlifts, etc.
Or, say you're benching and you're getting in a 5x5 @ 75%. You could follow that up with 3board presses against mini bands or chains, or both simultaneously. The point of Transmutation is to take the increased work capacity from Accumulation and use it to focus in on getting stronger on the big lifts through work that is closer to the big lifts. You pick lifts you are weak at, whatever they may be, and get stronger at them to improve your weaknesses on the comp lifts.
So yeah, bands and chains can definitely be used, it just has to fit the scope of the block you are in.
And just to add to that, you can even train upper and lower together. I have seen templates that are similar to the block model where this is done. I don't do this, but it's just another option.
Last edited by jbrin0tk; 12-23-2009 at 12:46 PM.
Here is a link from the Thinker that I found on EliteFTS. It's a little wordy, but it sums things up pretty well.
How does this look for 3 day a week programming using block periodization? I lift raw and solo. My sticking points are at the bottom of the movement for all three lifts.
Bench from the bottom position
High Pin Bench Press
Close Grip Bench Press
I plan on using the percentages, sets, and reps from Jeremy Frey's example on all the lifts except Abs, GMs, and Rev Hyper. These exercises are for the accumulation block.
Thanks in advance and any feedback would be greatly appreciated,
I wouldnt recomend that because now your benching 3x a week and i know for me i cant bench at 80-95% 3x a week.
here is what im doing
day one bench
day two squat
day three bench
day three deadlift
What does anyone think about changing High Pin Bench Press to Floor Press on Mondays?
Any suggestions on what to do in place of deficit deadlifts?
Just an fyi. I spoke with Landon Evans on the phone for an hour and a half on this subject a couple weeks ago. He helped enormously, of course, but just wanted to let everyone know that this forum really helped in clarifying a few questions I had. Thank you!