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Thread: Done With HCT-12 for now making a new ruitnee

  1. #1
    Power Lifting Noob Parker 1995's Avatar
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    Done With HCT-12 for now making a new ruitnee

    Hey guys ok im going to Start off and say HCT-12 is a great program i gained some solid gains and i am definetly liking it, but it is not a Football based ruitnee and that is what I need right now but once the season and wrestling is over im going to give it another go! here is my ruitnee I will be doing its a 4 day split

    Monday Lower/Back/ Abs
    Over Head Squat 3x5
    Front Squat 3x5
    Romian Dead Lift 3x5
    Pullups 2xFailure
    Rows 3x15
    ab work

    Tuesday Upper
    Bench Press 3x8
    Shoulder Press 3x8
    BB curls 3x10
    Tricep Pulldowns 3x15
    Explosive Pushups 2xfailure

    Wensday Abs/ Cardio
    Straight sit ups 2x50 45 lbs
    crunches 100 reps
    Kettle bell snatches 5 minutes cardio
    cruntches variations till failure

    Thursday Lower/back
    Over Head Squat 3x5
    Power snatches 3x5 or Front squat 3x5
    Romian Dead Lifts 3x5
    Pullups 2x till failure
    rows 3x15

    Friday upper/ab
    Dumbell press 3x10
    shoulder press
    BB curls 3x10
    tricep press/dips 3x15
    explosive pushups 2x failure
    ab work

    This will be my ruitnee or i will stick with HCT-12 which ever one I dont know yet. Do you guys think i should use this ruitnee or my HCT ruitnee?
    Bench Press 245x1
    Back Squat 225x3 (ATG)
    Dead lift 275x1
    Clean 185x2

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parker 1995 View Post
    Hey guys ok im going to Start off and say HCT-12 is a great program i gained some solid gains and i am definetly liking it, but it is not a Football based ruitnee and that is what I need right now but once the season and wrestling is over im going to give it another go! here is my ruitnee I will be doing its a 4 day split

    Monday Lower/Back/ Abs
    Over Head Squat 3x5
    Front Squat 3x5
    Romian Dead Lift 3x5
    Pullups 2xFailure
    Rows 3x15
    ab work

    Tuesday Upper
    Bench Press 3x8
    Shoulder Press 3x8
    BB curls 3x10
    Tricep Pulldowns 3x15
    Explosive Pushups 2xfailure

    Wensday Abs/ Cardio
    Straight sit ups 2x50 45 lbs
    crunches 100 reps
    Kettle bell snatches 5 minutes cardio
    cruntches variations till failure

    Thursday Lower/back
    Over Head Squat 3x5
    Power snatches 3x5 or Front squat 3x5
    Romian Dead Lifts 3x5
    Pullups 2x till failure
    rows 3x15

    Friday upper/ab
    Dumbell press 3x10
    shoulder press
    BB curls 3x10
    tricep press/dips 3x15
    explosive pushups 2x failure
    ab work

    This will be my ruitnee or i will stick with HCT-12 which ever one I dont know yet. Do you guys think i should use this ruitnee or my HCT ruitnee?
    not this routine ever. way too much volume and exercises are placed willy nilly throughout. Use a tried and tested routine.
    I'd suggest starting strength and maybe a GOMAD diet if you're training for football.
    If you are looking for something that may keep your cardio you could look at crossfit football, or do some sprints on off days of starting strength.

    Just keep it simple.
    Work hard. Stay humble.

  3. #3
    Strongman Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
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    I would not recommend the program that you posted for an athlete.

    Your best bet would be an Upper/Lower split with a mix of compound movements such as squats, box squats, trap bar deadlifts, rack pulls, incline press, pull-ups, rows, curls, dips, military press, etc.
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    Wendler's 5/3/1 for Football or Joe Defranco's WS4SB 3. They both have in season and off season routines, how to set up your speed work, and how to set up your conditioning without destroying what you built.

  5. #5
    Power Lifting Noob Parker 1995's Avatar
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    Does anyone no were 5/3/1 is? I havent seen that floating around and what kind of ruitnee should i be doing? Like can anyone brake down the lifts?
    Bench Press 245x1
    Back Squat 225x3 (ATG)
    Dead lift 275x1
    Clean 185x2

  6. #6
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    Sorry to be a pedant but it's definitely spelt routine. Actually, I'm not sorry.

  7. #7
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    Sorry to be a pedant but it's definitely spelt routine. Actually, I'm not sorry.
    And it's spelt "spelled."
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Raleighwood's Avatar
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    That routine could work, but you have to be careful with your programming.

    I'd make sure some of those sets are ramped, not straight across. Also, cycle your intensity each week so you can make progress over time and not overtrain... weeks that are focused on: building a base, then ramping up, peaking, then recovery.

    Although, if this is an in-season program, i'd keep it very light and low volume and focus on power/speed generation.

    I just noticed that you don't have any back squatting or power cleans in there. I'd find a way to put them in. Maybe take out overhead squats and replace them with back squats. Trade snatches for power cleans
    Last edited by Raleighwood; 08-17-2010 at 06:45 PM.
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  9. #9
    Power Lifting Noob Parker 1995's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raleighwood View Post
    That routine could work, but you have to be careful with your programming.

    I'd make sure some of those sets are ramped, not straight across. Also, cycle your intensity each week so you can make progress over time and not overtrain... weeks that are focused on: building a base, then ramping up, peaking, then recovery.

    Although, if this is an in-season program, i'd keep it very light and low volume and focus on power/speed generation.

    I just noticed that you don't have any back squatting or power cleans in there. I'd find a way to put them in. Maybe take out overhead squats and replace them with back squats. Trade snatches for power cleans
    Yes i dont have any back squats in there beacuse coach says front squats are better so i have completly cut back squats out and power snatches i am going to try to work them in as well any ideas were i should put them and what to replace them with?
    Bench Press 245x1
    Back Squat 225x3 (ATG)
    Dead lift 275x1
    Clean 185x2

  10. #10
    Power Lifting Noob Parker 1995's Avatar
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    New Ruitneee Upper/Lower split

    Upper body Tuesday/ Thursday
    Bench Press 3x5-8
    Incline Bench Press 3x10-15
    DB bench 3x5-8
    Pullups 2x failure
    Dips 3x8
    Over Head Press BB 3x10

    Lower Body Monday/Friday
    Front Squat 5x5
    Romian Dead Lifts 5x5
    Power Cleans 3x5
    Rack Pulls 2x5
    Calf Press 3x5-8

    This will be the ruitnee but i think i am missing something but i dont no what do you guys think?
    Bench Press 245x1
    Back Squat 225x3 (ATG)
    Dead lift 275x1
    Clean 185x2

  11. #11
    Senior Member Raleighwood's Avatar
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    Front squats aren't necessarily better. They are different. They are more quad dominant since your knees travel farther forward. The low-bar back squat is superior for posterior chain development, which is pretty important in sports.

    Running speed is largely dictated by your hamstring power. Your quads act more as a breaking force. So developing your hamstrings should be a priority.

    Also, you can build more strength with back squats, and your body position with back squats are generally closer to an 'athletic stance'. I am not saying your coach is wrong, but saying front squats are better for athletes than back squats, is misguided. If anything, high-bar back squats would be the best combination of the two.
    Last edited by Raleighwood; 08-18-2010 at 06:04 AM.
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  12. #12
    Power Lifting Noob Parker 1995's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raleighwood View Post
    Front squats aren't necessarily better. They are different. They are more quad dominant since your knees travel farther forward. The low-bar back squat is superior for posterior chain development, which is pretty important in sports.

    Running speed is largely dictated by your hamstring power. Your quads act more as a breaking force. So developing your hamstrings should be a priority.

    Also, you can build more strength with back squats, and your body position with back squats are generally closer to an 'athletic stance'. I am not saying your coach is wrong, but saying front squats are better for athletes than back squats, is misguided. If anything, high-bar back squats would be the best combination of the two.
    I see what you mean so do you think i should do Front Squats monday and Back Squats Friday and can you check out my Workout Upper/Lower it is the one with upper/lower split haha thank you for your help.
    Bench Press 245x1
    Back Squat 225x3 (ATG)
    Dead lift 275x1
    Clean 185x2

  13. #13
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    At this point it's time to find a pre-made routine.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Raleighwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parker 1995 View Post
    I see what you mean so do you think i should do Front Squats monday and Back Squats Friday and can you check out my Workout Upper/Lower it is the one with upper/lower split haha thank you for your help.
    What days do you play/compete?

    I'd put the front squats, along with other lighter work, on days before competition. Alternating front/back squat seems like a good idea.

    With your upper body pushing, I'd pick a day to focus on horizontal movement and do that heavy, and then on the other do day vertical pressing heavy.

    With all advice, it really depends on your unique qualities, so don't be afraid to experiment and adapt.
    Last edited by Raleighwood; 08-18-2010 at 12:23 PM.
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  15. #15
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Look, his numbers aren't very big (sorry for being blunt) and he's still very young, he needs something a lot more basic.
    Last edited by Off Road; 08-18-2010 at 12:29 PM.
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  16. #16
    Power Lifting Noob Parker 1995's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    Look, his numbers aren't very big (sorry for being blunt) and he's still very young, he needs something a lot more basic.
    Its alright I understand there big for my grade wise but I am trying to make them bigger wht do you think of my upper/lower split?
    Bench Press 245x1
    Back Squat 225x3 (ATG)
    Dead lift 275x1
    Clean 185x2

  17. #17
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parker 1995 View Post
    Its alright I understand there big for my grade wise but I am trying to make them bigger wht do you think of my upper/lower split?
    I'm fine with upper/lower, push/pull, full-body, and body-part splits. They all have their place when applied correctly. That wasn't my point...

    I just think it's too early in the game to start trying to re-invent the wheel. Your original routine has a wide variety of lifts, some are pretty technical, and the loading peramiters are widely varied. Then you change it every time somebody suggests something different.

    There is no need to be that complex and exact right now. Find a good pre-made routine that has been proven to work. Keep things simple, don't try to include every lift you can, and STICK WITH IT.

    Snatches, overhead squats and front squats are excellent lifts. I just think if strength is your goal, you should stick with the lifts that allow you to load up the bar and give a mechanical advantage.

    Sorry for rambling on...
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    How is HCT-12 not a good football routine? It is a pure strength/volume hybrid routine....

    With that being said, if I had to go back in time and train for a sport again, it would surely be starting strength unless I was already an intermediate...then it would be 5/3/1.

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    Why dont you just do what your coach tells you to do?

    And i agree with what everyone has said so far, thats a horrible routine, way too much volume for someone just starting out in lifting like you.

    A very basic barbell program, a la starting strength will go a long way

  20. #20
    Power Lifting Noob Parker 1995's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    I'm fine with upper/lower, push/pull, full-body, and body-part splits. They all have their place when applied correctly. That wasn't my point...

    I just think it's too early in the game to start trying to re-invent the wheel. Your original routine has a wide variety of lifts, some are pretty technical, and the loading peramiters are widely varied. Then you change it every time somebody suggests something different.

    There is no need to be that complex and exact right now. Find a good pre-made routine that has been proven to work. Keep things simple, don't try to include every lift you can, and STICK WITH IT.

    Snatches, overhead squats and front squats are excellent lifts. I just think if strength is your goal, you should stick with the lifts that allow you to load up the bar and give a mechanical advantage.

    Sorry for rambling on...
    Thank you and i am playing offensive line and Line backer now and im trying to work on power Cleans and lots of squats and im doing bench and dumbell bench for chest as well as pull ups. So im trying to get a ruitnee that envolves power from my whole body.
    Bench Press 245x1
    Back Squat 225x3 (ATG)
    Dead lift 275x1
    Clean 185x2

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