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Thread: Cut Confusion

  1. #1
    Wannabebig New Member
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    Cut Confusion

    Hi everyone.

    I made a page with my diet and results from the beginning of the year at:
    http://ozger.org/pix/cutpix.html

    Since June, I have lost 13lbs and went from 15.5% bodyfat to what I think is 12% now. In addition, as you will also see from the pictures, I have lost quite a bit of muscle since June, and I noticed today that the weights that I lift have started to come down.

    My problem is that I seem to have stalled with the weight loss and am stuck at 180lbs for over a month now. I have been trying to figure out what to do, whether to increase my calories, or go down even lower, but I feel like a chicken running with its head cut off at this point!

    My pants size went down to 30 from 33. Even the 30s are getting too loose, but I have not been really seeing any change for quite a while now.

    I am working out 6 days a week, 2 of them being 40 mins of cardio only, the rest with weights and 20-30 min cardio afterwards on the elliptical at 140hr. (I am 34). I also tried going back to the trainer that helped me with the last diet you see at the bottom of that page, but he is usually busy with others, so I am kind of on my own.

    What would you recommend? I was trying to get down to 8-9% bodyfat, but with that kind of muscle loss, I am not sure if that would be enough, or if I even want to continue the cut.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Where do you think you lost mass? It doesnt look like that to me at all.

    Have you considered or ever heard of timed carb dieting and/or carb cycling? It may work better.
    My Log: http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=132038

    "Train to be a mother****er" -Jim Wendler

  3. #3
    Wannabebig New Member
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    Mostly from the way my shirts feel nowadays. My arms and chest used to be tighter in my shirts, not so much anymore. Also, I measured my arms recently and I was down to 16 from 17.5 inches.

    One other thing is if I am really 12% now, that is 3% loss. From the original 193lbs, down to 180 is 13 lbs, but 3% of 193 is 5.7lbs, leaving the rest of the loss to be muscle.

    At this point, I am actually trying to figure out if I cut the calories too much to begin with. That would explain the muscle loss too, I think. Based on the traditional calculations, should I not be around 2500 to 2800 calories? (180*14 or 16).

  4. #4
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharktopus View Post
    Mostly from the way my shirts feel nowadays. My arms and chest used to be tighter in my shirts, not so much anymore. Also, I measured my arms recently and I was down to 16 from 17.5 inches.

    One other thing is if I am really 12% now, that is 3% loss. From the original 193lbs, down to 180 is 13 lbs, but 3% of 193 is 5.7lbs, leaving the rest of the loss to be muscle.

    At this point, I am actually trying to figure out if I cut the calories too much to begin with. That would explain the muscle loss too, I think. Based on the traditional calculations, should I not be around 2500 to 2800 calories? (180*14 or 16).
    If you lower carbs and total food you are going to be holding less water which is very possible, and likely, rather than the 7lb loss of muscle.

    If I am interpretting the link right, you went straight from bulking on 3600 cals a day to 2300 cals a day? Yes that is a big drop and it proved to be so as your progress is stalling and its possible you lost some muscle. Here is a good article http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/sh...&highlight=law It should answer some/all of your questions and let you know what to do in the future.

    As far as using "traditional calculations", I would cut at 2500 to 2800 cals a day and I am 155lbs. And I dont consider myself as having a high metabolism either. So please keep in mind that those are estimates and not 100% accurate.

    Let me know what you think.
    My Log: http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=132038

    "Train to be a mother****er" -Jim Wendler

  5. #5
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
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    It might be worth it to take a break and maintain weight for a while. If you have lost strength you can re-gain that and recompose a little. Once your strength is back you can decide to return to cutting.

    Keep in mind that fat chics have big arms. If you drop body fat all your measurements will go down. The main thing is your #'s in the gym. If you are indeed lifting less I'd take a break.

    The Fitness Industry is a 1 billion dollar industry.
    --Dairy Queens Blizzard pulls in 3/4 of a billion.
    --------------We are the elite.------------

  6. #6
    Wannabebig New Member
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    ehopkins932, thank you for the article. Especially the 2nd post there describes my problem exactly. When I first started cutting, by just getting off the Weight Gainer, I was actually losing slower. It was after I met the trainer that I lost it all really fast. I liked, it, but I may have done more bad than good!

    I have been doing a lot of reading and will try dropping the carbs more, but increase my fat intake for a few weeks, then see how it works.

    Holto; I think I was also overtraining, with 16+ sets per bodypart. I will also drop to 10 sets, see how things progress.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    Glad to help. It may be beneficial to do a program more geared towards strength gain ( or maintenance if your strength levels are very advanced). The point of high volume training is size with strength secondary. Not much of a point of doing it while cutting IMO.
    My Log: http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=132038

    "Train to be a mother****er" -Jim Wendler

  8. #8
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharktopus View Post
    ehopkins932, thank you for the article. Especially the 2nd post there describes my problem exactly. When I first started cutting, by just getting off the Weight Gainer, I was actually losing slower. It was after I met the trainer that I lost it all really fast. I liked, it, but I may have done more bad than good!

    I have been doing a lot of reading and will try dropping the carbs more, but increase my fat intake for a few weeks, then see how it works.

    Holto; I think I was also overtraining, with 16+ sets per bodypart. I will also drop to 10 sets, see how things progress.
    Oh dear god yes drop the # of sets.

    Each set we do beyond the minnimum required to stimulate growth only diminishes our abilty to recover.

    The Fitness Industry is a 1 billion dollar industry.
    --Dairy Queens Blizzard pulls in 3/4 of a billion.
    --------------We are the elite.------------

  9. #9
    Wannabebig Member
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    Hey sharktopus, I'm in the same boat as you. The past two summers I've tried to do a cut to go down to the same 8-9% body fat. I was about 190 pounds at the start, and dropped to 176 last summer. Then from 190 I dropped to 180 this past July. Needless to say, I was unsuccessful. My lifts dropped, and I was monitoring my weight with a digital body fat scale. From the weight loss, half was fat and the other half muscle.I know for me I did a smarter cut this past summer, and I didn't restrict calories as low; I also had a bit more protein in my diet, but I still didn't achieve the results that I (and you) want.

    I read the article with f=ma, invain, and behemoth, and f=ma is using the 5x5 program along with the 5x3x1 program. I've been using the 5x5 program over the winter during hockey season, so his story struck a chord with me. I looked at the 5x3x1 program, and it's supposed to keep the strength there by having you still lift the same weight for muscle stimulus. Since you're on a cut, and are eating less, you won't have the energy to pound out the same volume or number of reps. But again, lifting the same heavy weight, even if only once or twice, is still stimulus for the muscles to stay there. This makes sense to me, and I'm going to try it this coming spring. I think it may work for you too!

    Will

  10. #10
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
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    Yes blackmetal. Lifting heavy = keeping muscle. This definitely is a volume issue for you guys. Volume is often overlooked and is an arbitrary result of program design.

    The Fitness Industry is a 1 billion dollar industry.
    --Dairy Queens Blizzard pulls in 3/4 of a billion.
    --------------We are the elite.------------

  11. #11
    Wannabebig New Member
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    I have been on my high fat low carb diet the past few days. I do not really feel any different. I did notice some more energy at the gym, but it can also be the effect of the less sets. I do feel I have recovered from the overtraining, too.

    My weight is still 180, I will keep going like this for a few weeks, if nothing changes, I am going back up with the calories for muscle building I guess. (Though no Weight Gainer this time!)

  12. #12
    Senior Member
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    Up the cals slowly. Just like you lowered then too fast and that led to problems, dont raise them too fast either.

    Best bet it probably to add 40g of protein every 2 weeks since youre already low on that macronutrient.
    My Log: http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=132038

    "Train to be a mother****er" -Jim Wendler

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