The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    I'm not seeing any benefit from Speed bench

    I really don't think I'm getting much carry-over from speed bench. My best touch 'n go is 295 and pause bench 275. Maybe it's to early in my training for speed bench? I was thinking instead of speed bench replace it with pin presses or pause bench 8x3 @ 60% or some RE effort?
    Last edited by ThomasG; 04-29-2010 at 08:32 AM.
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  3. #2
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    How are you evaluating whether or not you're getting benefit from speed bench?

    Are you doing your accessory work properly?


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  4. #3
    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
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    How long have you been doing speed bench work? Are you training bench twice a week? Once a week? Three times? It's helpful to know these to get some more context as to how you train.
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  5. #4
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
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    Are you using accomodating resistance?

    I used to doubt that speed bench worked, then I went to exclusively doing it with bands and chains and I made a lot of progress. I never had much luck with straight weight speed work.

    Also, what is your max effort work like? Everyone assumes it is their speed work that is at fault, but bad exercise selection on max effort day can be the culprit as well.
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  6. #5
    Wannabebig Member C-Sobrino's Avatar
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    I don't think you can think of speed bench as (8x3 speed bench) x (12 sessions) = 10 pounds on my lift. Rather I noticed the effects of doing DE benches in how my max efforts moved and how much energy I lost in them, in addition to any carryover poundage.
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  7. #6
    UPA Lousiana Chairman Eric Downey's Avatar
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    my speed work gave me the ability to bring the weight down faster and more under controlled. it took awhile for me to see that in training. keep it up
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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Sobrino View Post
    I don't think you can think of speed bench as (8x3 speed bench) x (12 sessions) = 10 pounds on my lift. Rather I noticed the effects of doing DE benches in how my max efforts moved and how much energy I lost in them, in addition to any carryover poundage.
    I agree with the not being able to think of speed bench in the terms of number of sets x workouts = more weight.

    The thing for me is speed work enables me to practice staying really, really tight with both my setup and as I'm moving the weight. When I'm on with my speed work and its exploding off my chest with control, my max bench goes up. If I'm loose on the speed work, I'm lolling on the bench, or I'm not moving the weight fast, my max bench is doing the same thing.
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  9. #8
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    Thomas,
    What kind of weights are you using for speed bench? Bands and chains are a must to really see the benefits w/ DE work IMO...(45%- 55% 1rm) 9x3

    Stay with it and you will see your bar speed increase w/ your ME work. More bar speed = more weight pressed. It really helped me push thru my sticking points!

  10. #9
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    You may be using too much weight. I think that is a common mistake with speed work. Try less weight and see how it goes.


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  11. #10
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    You bench raw, correct?
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
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  12. #11
    THE 800 QUEST NickAus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamBAG View Post
    Are you using accomodating resistance?

    I used to doubt that speed bench worked, then I went to exclusively doing it with bands and chains and I made a lot of progress. I never had much luck with straight weight speed work.

    Also, what is your max effort work like? Everyone assumes it is their speed work that is at fault, but bad exercise selection on max effort day can be the culprit as well.
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  13. #12
    Moderator Brian Hopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamBAG View Post
    I never had much luck with straight weight speed work.
    I'm pretty much the same way, most of my speed work is with bands or chains.

    I also agree with what Chris said about using too much weight. I see ALOT of people who think they need a bunch of weight for speed work when they don't. Who cares if there aren't alot of plates on the bar, you just need to keep that bar moving FAST.

    I just recently seen a video that "Brian C" posted of him doing speed work against minis, and it was pretty damn fast. Check it out, http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...Journal/page36. IMO, that's pretty much how speed work is done. I'm sure you can also find alot of videos in Travis's log of him doing some speed work.

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  14. #13
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    How are you evaluating whether or not you're getting benefit from speed bench?
    Are you doing your accessory work properly?
    Well I do my assistance work like a bodybuilder as of the past couple weeks and really focus on TUT hypertrophy is just as important to me as power and strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    How long have you been doing speed bench work? Are you training bench twice a week? Once a week? Three times? It's helpful to know these to get some more context as to how you train.
    Not very long about 2.5 months and I do it once a week 8x3.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamBAG View Post
    Are you using accomodating resistance?

    I used to doubt that speed bench worked, then I went to exclusively doing it with bands and chains and I made a lot of progress. I never had much luck with straight weight speed work.

    Also, what is your max effort work like? Everyone assumes it is their speed work that is at fault, but bad exercise selection on max effort day can be the culprit as well.
    Yes I use bands. One mistake I'm making is I use the same type of band resistance every week only changing the straight weight. Except today I decided to change the band tension

    Quote Originally Posted by robchris View Post
    Thomas,
    What kind of weights are you using for speed bench? Bands and chains are a must to really see the benefits w/ DE work IMO...(45%- 55% 1rm) 9x3

    Stay with it and you will see your bar speed increase w/ your ME work. More bar speed = more weight pressed. It really helped me push thru my sticking points!
    I cycle through 40-60%

    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    You may be using too much weight. I think that is a common mistake with speed work. Try less weight and see how it goes.
    I keep the sets 3-3.5 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    You bench raw, correct?
    Correct.
    Last edited by ThomasG; 04-29-2010 at 08:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
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  15. #14
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    You might be keeping the speed up, but still using too great of a load for you. Remember, the advent of the speed day was to address those who could not recover from two intense workouts by body part per week. Speed work serves multiple functions one of which is a form of active recovery from the heavy work of the ME day. So, even though your percents and speed seem to be in line, YOU might need to reduce the load a bit for it to work properly for you.


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  16. #15
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    You might be keeping the speed up, but still using too great of a load for you. Remember, the advent of the speed day was to address those who could not recover from two intense workouts by body part per week. Speed work serves multiple functions one of which is a form of active recovery from the heavy work of the ME day. So, even though your percents and speed seem to be in line, YOU might need to reduce the load a bit for it to work properly for you.

    This is good info Chris thanks. I thought you were supposed to use as much weight as you could in the 3-3.5 second range. My anterior deltoids burn out more than anything. I'll reduce the weight and see how things go, thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
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  17. #16
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    Honestly I think speed work helps to an extent earlier on, but just building up muscles at that stage is dang near as important imo. I try to also have a good amount of volume on my speed days. And things like floor pin press after my ME lift really help to give me progress on the bench.

  18. #17
    Senior Member K-R-M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    How are you evaluating whether or not you're getting benefit from speed bench?

    Are you doing your accessory work properly?
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamBAG View Post
    Also, what is your max effort work like? Everyone assumes it is their speed work that is at fault, but bad exercise selection on max effort day can be the culprit as well.

    I'm a novice/intermediate lifter, I'm interested in what you have to say about this. What do you mean by proper accessory work or exercise selection on max effort day? How do you judge if the work your doing is adequate?

  19. #18
    Pro Powerlifter AJ Roberts's Avatar
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    We really don't stick to a set weight for all sets anymore, neither do we cycle in waves. Typically we change bar every week, and then either add weight or resistance as we go. We still focus on 3 reps 3 seconds though and if bar speed slows we usually shut it down.
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  20. #19
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-R-M View Post
    I'm a novice/intermediate lifter, I'm interested in what you have to say about this. What do you mean by proper accessory work or exercise selection on max effort day? How do you judge if the work your doing is adequate?
    Well that's why I was asking. When people say "I'm not getting anything from speed work" how do you know? Unless you're actually getting slower (in which case you're using too much weight or band tension) it's really difficult to pinpoint speed work as the problem.

    Accessory work needs to be kept light on DE day. Everyone wants to go heavy on it all the time and you can't do that and still have it be a dynamic workout. DE day isn't about getting stronger, it's about getting faster and improving technique.

    Volume is also key. Your total volume on DE day needs to be almost double what you do on ME day.


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  21. #20
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    I agree with what Chris and Travis said about DE work being light. I've gone lighter on my DE bench and squat, and my ME days are much better.
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  22. #21
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    Well that's why I was asking. When people say "I'm not getting anything from speed work" how do you know? Unless you're actually getting slower (in which case you're using too much weight or band tension) it's really difficult to pinpoint speed work as the problem.

    Accessory work needs to be kept light on DE day. Everyone wants to go heavy on it all the time and you can't do that and still have it be a dynamic workout. DE day isn't about getting stronger, it's about getting faster and improving technique.

    Volume is also key. Your total volume on DE day needs to be almost double what you do on ME day.
    Travis I was assessing by past and present gains. I was having better success with RE effort rather than DE. But I really think I was just going to heavy on speed work now. I do keep me DE days light and dont take my accessory work till failure. However, I did not know the volume was supposed to be double. Man, west side is a never ending journey of learning but that's one of the reasons I enjoy it so much. Thanks for the advice.
    Last edited by ThomasG; 04-30-2010 at 02:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
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  23. #22
    JERSEY IRON Brian C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Hopper View Post
    I'm pretty much the same way, most of my speed work is with bands or chains.

    I also agree with what Chris said about using too much weight. I see ALOT of people who think they need a bunch of weight for speed work when they don't. Who cares if there aren't alot of plates on the bar, you just need to keep that bar moving FAST.

    I just recently seen a video that "Brian C" posted of him doing speed work against minis, and it was pretty damn fast. Check it out, http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...Journal/page36. IMO, that's pretty much how speed work is done. I'm sure you can also find alot of videos in Travis's log of him doing some speed work.

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  24. #23
    A gallon a day, everyday! ThomasG's Avatar
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    Hey everyone just to give an update. Chris was 100% right. Just because the bar is moving fast doesn't mean that its the proper amount of weight. I lowered the straight weight and tension. There has definitely been a direct carryover to my ME work I am much faster off the chest. Here is a vid of my most recent DE session


    Video


    Thanks for the advice everyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    you're an intelligent guy... but you're also half #$%&ing crazy... and that my friend is the formula for a great powerlifter.
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  25. #24
    Senior Member gmen5681's Avatar
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    just noticing how you have your bands set up and im surprised that the DB doesnt move around at all. i always put a 2.5 lbs plate on both sides of the DB so its doesnt roll anywhere.

  26. #25
    Wannabebig Member icedutah's Avatar
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    That speed is more like it. Great job. Most people are going too heavy and too slow. Even though they are moving the heavier weight semi-fast. But not fast enough.

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