The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: Ufc 121

  1. #1
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Ufc 121

    Recent UFC events have sparked little discussion. This one should though, as it is the culmination of Brocktober. Will it end with Novacain?( I saw that somewhere else, so can't take any credit for it)

    In the big 3 to me:

    Cain over Brock in a fedor like performance. Everyone has anointed him as the champ in waiting and I will get on the hype train. I see him utilizing a Frankie Edgar type strategy to outquick and outpoint Brock.

    Sudent beats teacher as Matt Hammil beats Tito Ortiz.

    Jake shields wins over Kampman, to set up an actual interesting GSP title defense.
    Last edited by joey54; 10-18-2010 at 12:00 PM.


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  3. #2
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    How many more times does Brock need to win to prove himself. Every fight he has people always say they think the challenger is going to win. Just like Carwin, Mir, and Couture. He is going to wreck Cain.

  4. #3
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    Brock by bully beatdown - too big and strong, and too good a wrestler
    I really hope Hammil beats Tito and Tito retires. The sport has passed Tito by.
    Shields over Kampmann and then GSP vs Shields next year
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    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickp8 View Post
    How many more times does Brock need to win to prove himself. Every fight he has people always say they think the challenger is going to win. Just like Carwin, Mir, and Couture. He is going to wreck Cain.
    This.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    This.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasG View Post
    That.
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  8. #7
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    I agree, gotta like Brock's chances given the guy's attitude, hugeness, quickness, toughness, and emerging skills. He's kind of an a-hole, but I can't help rooting for the guy.
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  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by StLRPh View Post
    Brock by bully beatdown - too big and strong, and too good a wrestler
    I really hope Hammil beats Tito and Tito retires. The sport has passed Tito by.
    Shields over Kampmann and then GSP vs Shields next year


    Agreed on all points.

  10. #9
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    By all accounts Cain is considered the much more accomplished, well rounded fighter. Cain got rocked by Kongo and went forward with takedown after takedown. Brock got hit by a glancing blow by Carwin and turtled up. Can Brock handle the pressure Cain will put on him from start to finish? Also, if Cain utilizes a stick and move strategy, what will Brock do to negate it?

    I like both guys as fighters, just have to go with who I feel will win. It is not slighting Brock at all by indicating an undefeated fighter with more experience will beat him. By all accounts he is the underdog here just like in his other big fights, minus Mir II. He obviously could win this one. I just think Cain will.


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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    By all accounts Cain is considered the much more accomplished, well rounded fighter. Cain got rocked by Kongo and went forward with takedown after takedown. Brock got hit by a glancing blow by Carwin and turtled up. Can Brock handle the pressure Cain will put on him from start to finish? Also, if Cain utilizes a stick and move strategy, what will Brock do to negate it?

    I like both guys as fighters, just have to go with who I feel will win. It is not slighting Brock at all by indicating an undefeated fighter with more experience will beat him. By all accounts he is the underdog here just like in his other big fights, minus Mir II. He obviously could win this one. I just think Cain will.
    Cain won't be able to put pressure on him. He doesn't have cinder blocks for fists like Carwin does, and jabs will not keep Lesnar away. Lesnar will take him down with superior wrestling and power, and then pound him into the mat. The whole stick and move thing doesn't work with someone who is a superior athlete and has really good wrestling. Those 2 things allow Lesnar to control the fight. Also, people are saying Cain has great cardio, first of all Brock has pretty good endurance for his size and second let's see how fast Cain tires out trying to hold up a 280lb. freak.

  12. #11
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Cain is on par as a wrestler and might wind up taking Brock down. What you are saying could happen, but it seems like Cain will be prepared for it. Brock can win with size and power. Cain has more ways to win the fight. Usually the guy who has more tools is the one who you tend to go with, unless the one strength is head and shoulders above the other guy. Brock's wrestling is great, but isn't vastly superior to Cain's. And Cain has shown better application of wrestling to MMA than Brock has thus far. Also, reports already have Brock at 265 now. Not sure if he will be up to 280 by fight time, but he may be.


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  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    Cain is on par as a wrestler and might wind up taking Brock down. What you are saying could happen, but it seems like Cain will be prepared for it. Brock can win with size and power. Cain has more ways to win the fight. Usually the guy who has more tools is the one who you tend to go with, unless the one strength is head and shoulders above the other guy. Brock's wrestling is great, but isn't vastly superior to Cain's. And Cain has shown better application of wrestling to MMA than Brock has thus far. Also, reports already have Brock at 265 now. Not sure if he will be up to 280 by fight time, but he may be.
    I agree Cain has more tools to win this fight. Watching the Kongo fight though I saw some very real weaknesses in Cain. He got rocked bad by Kongo, Kongo is a great striker but he's never really rocked anyone like that I've watched all the guys fights. Brock on the other hand has rocked all his opponents except for Carwin. Kongo also took Cain down in the fight by shoving him against the cage and using brute force there was little to no technique. This is the key to Brocks victory, Brock needs to shove Cain against the fence and take him down from there. In MMA when a guy wants you against the fence it is very very hard to avoid it. The guy being bigger then you only makes avoiding that even harder. This is a really hard fight to pick but I'll go with Brock. Finding training partners to emulate Brock is not going to be easy.

    I think Shields beats Kamp

    and I pray Hammill runs through Tito. I love the way Hammill just keeps moving forward winning or losing the guy doesn't stop coming at you.

  14. #13
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    Great points method. One thing to consider is the utilization of leg kicks. Cain may employ this strategy and this could limit Lesnar's power significantly. Also puts him at risk of getting taken down, so does he have the ability to get back up if this happens? Cain is more dynamic as a striker and that will be an advantage. Also, Brock's wrestling in MMA has not looked amazing yet and Cain's wrestling is equal at least to Carwin. He had a lot of trouble taking Shane down early on and Cain will be fresh like that the entire fight.

    To me it also still comes down to how one reacts when they get hit. Brock ran away and turtled up when pressured. Will that be corrected? Yes he has rocked and dropped Mir, herring, and Couture on the feet, but the only one finished due to it was Randy. And that was due to getting hit behind the ear, which doesn't take massive power if done right. When Cain gets rocked, he gets takedowns. Even if Lesnar gets back up, it will tire him out. The relentless pace, if applied, will be an advantage.
    Last edited by joey54; 10-19-2010 at 04:43 AM.


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    I believe Cains wrestling is actually a little better then Brock and Carwin as far as technique go. The difference is that the cage changes everything there is no cage in wrestling. If Cain is smart they've been training hard on using the cage to get back up, and Brock has been training to use the cage to keep Cain pinned.

    This is a really hard fight to pick honestly. These guys have been improving at an incredible pace and its hard to look at one of there past fights and imagine that the same weaknesses still exist. I don't fault Brock to much on the way he reacted to getting hit cause Carwin has KO'd every opponent he's ever faced. He didn't react like that against anyone else.

    Regardless of what happens I just hope we get to see another epic HW match. The last fight was pretty exciting Carwin almost finishing Brock and then him coming back with an arm triangle.

  16. #15
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    Personally I have Brock winning this one, second round.

    I would completely agree Cain is a more well rounded fighter, but Brock has proved repeatedly that his power trumps all. All it takes is that one punch and then he's on you and you're burried.

    If the fight goes past two rounds, it'll be interesting because Cain's conditioning is pretty amazing and it'll be a real test for Brock.


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  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    Personally I have Brock winning this one, second round.

    I would completely agree Cain is a more well rounded fighter, but Brock has proved repeatedly that his power trumps all. All it takes is that one punch and then he's on you and you're burried.

    If the fight goes past two rounds, it'll be interesting because Cain's conditioning is pretty amazing and it'll be a real test for Brock.
    Agreed....Brock is too big and too strong for Cain. Cain is a more accomplished fighter technically, but it will not be enough to overcome Lesnar's power. I really don't like Lesnar, he's kind of a prick and shows little class after most of his wins, but I'm actually rooting for him this time. I'm so sick of the "Mexican champion" angle the UFC and Velasquez himself are hyping up for this fight. Even during the Primetime segments, all Velasquez has to talk about is the fact that he's Mexican and it's ridiculous. Pretty funny considering the guy has never lived in Mexico a day in his life and went to ASU, a state funded university, on a wrestling scholarship. This would be like me claiming I'm German. Sure, my ancestors came over a couple hundred years ago, but I've never so much as set foot over there. Get over it, Cain, you're an American and you've been provided with a ton of opportunities by this country. In addition, the guy has the personality of plywood.

    I'd like to see Kampmann put a hurting on Shields as well. He is so overrated to me....one of the most boring guys around. That last fight he had against Henderson nearly put me to sleep. I also have Tito over Hammil, if his back is healthy. I highly doubt he would take a fight if it wasn't, though.


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  18. #17
    Ash "Money" Hegde Y2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    Brock got hit by a glancing blow by Carwin and turtled up.
    I admit it's been a while since I've seen this but I'm pretty sure Carwin nailed him clean with a punch that would have KTFO almost any other fighter. I agree with some of your points though. Still, I think Brock is the champion and favorite until someone beats him and proves otherwise. I wouldn't be shocked if Cain won but I don't think he will.

    Completely agree with RBB about Shields, he is super boring and I hope he loses.
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  19. #18
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    What Shields does on the ground is amazing. He is the only interesting fight for GSP at this point. The hitman could sprawl and brawl, but a guy who hits much harder couldnt finish Jake.

    It does not surprise me that on a weightlifting/powerlifitng board everyone is picking Lesnar. And he very well may win. He improves every fight and if he corrected the running away and turtling from last fight, he has a good shot. But, I think many people on here have this idea Lesnar is just going to run over Cain and f-5 him through the cage because he is bigger. Really can't wait to see this one and how he responds to this constant pressure. Whoever wins this has another great fight lined up for them after too.


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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y2A View Post
    I admit it's been a while since I've seen this but I'm pretty sure Carwin nailed him clean with a punch that would have KTFO almost any other fighter. I agree with some of your points though. Still, I think Brock is the champion and favorite until someone beats him and proves otherwise. I wouldn't be shocked if Cain won but I don't think he will.

    Completely agree with RBB about Shields, he is super boring and I hope he loses.
    Do watch it again. If it would have landed clean, he might have taken his head off.


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  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    Cain is on par as a wrestler and might wind up taking Brock down. What you are saying could happen, but it seems like Cain will be prepared for it. Brock can win with size and power. Cain has more ways to win the fight. Usually the guy who has more tools is the one who you tend to go with, unless the one strength is head and shoulders above the other guy. Brock's wrestling is great, but isn't vastly superior to Cain's. And Cain has shown better application of wrestling to MMA than Brock has thus far. Also, reports already have Brock at 265 now. Not sure if he will be up to 280 by fight time, but he may be.
    All very good points, but until Brock loses I have to go with him. He has shown that his brute strength can simply overpower most opponents and his wrestling skills are very good. Unless somebody is able to knock him out with a punch or kick (unlikely), he won't lose.
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  22. #21
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    While I wouldn't mine seeing Cain take Brock's belt, I still think Brock is just to big and strong to lose. He's just a freak of nature and at his size he's still incredibly fast. Watching him move in some of the training clips they showed on UFC Primetime, it's unreal. It's still MMA so Cain has a shot, but like Guido said, until he actually loses I have him favored.
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  23. #22
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    Getting close. Can't wait. I will be cheering for Tito even though I picked against him. One of those ones where you hope they regain past glory, but know it is not likely. On the main event I am neutral despite my pick. I do like lesnar's persona and always have. Feel the only time he talks crap is in response to crap being talked on him. I think it is great he had no clue who Chael Sonnen is.


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  24. #23
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    Brock weighed-in at 265. He'll be 285 by fight night. Until there are enough enormous athletes who are ALSO physically gifted & athletic to populate a "Super Heavyweight" division, Brock will fight down with the Heavyweights, and likely continue to impress.

    But that's the beautiful thing about the UFC.....(almost) everybody has a *chance*. So I guess we'll see.
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  25. #24
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Why would he be 285 when he was 265 on Monday? He is fighting lighter. 270 maybe.


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