The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #101
    House Lannister
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    What's up with the backdown sets? Just a finisher or what?

    Since you're admin (which basically means GOD OF WBB ) now, I was wondering what you'd think about making a sticky on proper program progression? There seems to be a lot of talk lately on people asking if they are "right" for one routine or the other, and although we have stickies detailing good beginner programs, maybe it'd be easier to have a sticky detailing what to do after finishing one program.

    For example, you could do this:

    Newbs/Beginners (0-6 months training with a # Bench/ # Squat/ # Deadlift)
    Foundation Routine: Starting Strength or Hardgainer

    Intermediates (1-3 years experience with a # Bench/ # Squat/ # Deadlift)
    Strength Routine: Madcow 5x5
    Hypertrophy Routine: HCT-12

    And so on....

    Maybe it shouldn't have its own sticky, but it could be nice to add it to one of the existing stickies. I casually looked over the stickies and don't see anything like this. Hopefully something like this could cut down on the (I bench 95#s, is DC right for me?) questions.

  2. #102
    Senior Member ironwill727's Avatar
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    Looks like you are progressing nicely. How do you like the program?

  3. #103
    Skinny Feet Kiff's Avatar
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    Some impressive bench OR, i hope for you that you can grab the lift by the balls this time round.

    Good work mate.
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  4. #104
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELmx479 View Post
    Solid stuff, I'm feeling the hct-12 itch again.
    Come and drink the CoolAid

    Quote Originally Posted by f=ma View Post
    so i finally figured out you moved your journal. took me 4 weeks?

    workouts look very good, i hope the routine pans out the way you anticipate. i am pleased to see at least 1 person was able to enjoy themselves on thanksgiving. i have been trying to incorporate some DC aspects into my accessory lifting.. e.g., the +2,+2,+1 type stuff of HCT after failure. hopefully it works? :P
    Glad you found me, of course I think we'll be moving these HCT journals over to the main forum soon...

    Quote Originally Posted by chevelle2291 View Post
    What's up with the backdown sets? Just a finisher or what?

    Since you're admin (which basically means GOD OF WBB ) now, I was wondering what you'd think about making a sticky on proper program progression? There seems to be a lot of talk lately on people asking if they are "right" for one routine or the other, and although we have stickies detailing good beginner programs, maybe it'd be easier to have a sticky detailing what to do after finishing one program.

    For example, you could do this:

    Newbs/Beginners (0-6 months training with a # Bench/ # Squat/ # Deadlift)
    Foundation Routine: Starting Strength or Hardgainer

    Intermediates (1-3 years experience with a # Bench/ # Squat/ # Deadlift)
    Strength Routine: Madcow 5x5
    Hypertrophy Routine: HCT-12

    And so on....

    Maybe it shouldn't have its own sticky, but it could be nice to add it to one of the existing stickies. I casually looked over the stickies and don't see anything like this. Hopefully something like this could cut down on the (I bench 95#s, is DC right for me?) questions.
    You are correct, the back-down sets are "finishers." Also, I do plan to reorganize the stickies, just waiting to finalize all the stuff with Daniel first.

    Quote Originally Posted by ironwill727 View Post
    Looks like you are progressing nicely. How do you like the program?
    I like this program, it's kind of back to my roots. 5/3/1 is just so slow that it gets kind of monotonous. This program has you trying to hit new weight PRs instead of rep PRs. Plus the clusters are a kick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiff View Post
    Some impressive bench OR, i hope for you that you can grab the lift by the balls this time round.

    Good work mate.
    I plan to grab it by the balls and squeeze until it screams like a little girl
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  5. #105
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Mon Nov 29, 2010

    A day late but who gives a crap...

    Squats
    365 lbs x 6 +2 +2 +2
    275 lbs x 20

    S.l.d.l.
    285 lbs x 6 +2 +2 +2
    215 lbs x 12

    Heel Raises
    225 lbs x 15 +5 +5 +5

    Notes:
    I decided I'd alternate the squats and deadlifts, just because I miss squats when I don't do them. I always feel like something is missing when there isn't a squat in the routine. We'll see how it works rotating the two, but I don't forsee a problem...
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  6. #106
    Garage Lifter
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    great workout and really like the idea of alternating deads and squats
    "Its not the will to win that matters, everyone has that. Its the will to prepare to win that matters." Bear Bryant
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  7. #107
    Continuing... Time+Patience's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    A day late but who gives a crap...

    Notes:
    I decided I'd alternate the squats and deadlifts, just because I miss squats when I don't do them. I always feel like something is missing when there isn't a squat in the routine. We'll see how it works rotating the two, but I don't forsee a problem...
    As long as it's down it doesn't matter when it's posted. I just had 3 late workouts. I think rotating heavy compound lifts like Deads and squats is a solid idea. It gives you ample rest and it's good to keep them in the rotation so you stay accustomed to the lifts.
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  8. #108
    1 gimpy leg xtian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    I like this program, it's kind of back to my roots. 5/3/1 is just so slow that it gets kind of monotonous. This program has you trying to hit new weight PRs instead of rep PRs. Plus the clusters are a kick.

    I strongly agree with you here OR!
    5'10" 196lbs as of 6/10/11
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  9. #109
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StLRPh View Post
    great workout and really like the idea of alternating deads and squats
    Thanks, we'll see how it works. I might rotate some other lifts too, like incline bench and flat bench. That should keep things from stalling too fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Time+Patience View Post
    As long as it's down it doesn't matter when it's posted. I just had 3 late workouts. I think rotating heavy compound lifts like Deads and squats is a solid idea. It gives you ample rest and it's good to keep them in the rotation so you stay accustomed to the lifts.
    That's what I like about this split, if I miss a day I can just make it up and get right back on track.

    Quote Originally Posted by xtian View Post
    I strongly agree with you here OR!
    Obviously it works well for you, so maybe I'll make some good progress.
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  10. #110
    Skinny Feet Kiff's Avatar
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    Nice work mate
    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...?136143-Hct-12

    A Westside journal.

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  11. #111
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    Off Road...did you take any before pics prior to this program? If you stick with it for 3 months or so, id be interested to see a before and after. I am starting to steer more towards the size oriented goals now and I am looking at DC training or HCT-12 as the next program after 5/3/1.

  12. #112
    Senior Member the pope's Avatar
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    going good here. how you finding it in termes of the way you look you seeing any diff?

  13. #113
    Goals (kg) 272.5/165/305 HJP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    Notes:
    I decided I'd alternate the squats and deadlifts, just because I miss squats when I don't do them. I always feel like something is missing when there isn't a squat in the routine.
    Same mate... If there ain't squats in the routine I feel like im not lifting!
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  14. #114
    Senior Member
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    I agree, the clusters are great. Good work OR, those 20 rep squats are impressive

  15. #115
    Senior Member ELmx479's Avatar
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    Hitting a 20 rep squat after the cluster set is very impressive. I did a back down set of 12 reps and it was rough so I couldn't imagine 20. Nice work!

  16. #116
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiff View Post
    Nice work mate
    Thanks Kiff

    Quote Originally Posted by mchicia1 View Post
    Off Road...did you take any before pics prior to this program? If you stick with it for 3 months or so, id be interested to see a before and after. I am starting to steer more towards the size oriented goals now and I am looking at DC training or HCT-12 as the next program after 5/3/1.
    No, I didn't take any before pics. In fact, I don't have one single "posing" picture, ever. Just not my thing I guess. I have "shirted" pictures, but it's hard to tell anything with a shirt on.

    Quote Originally Posted by the pope View Post
    going good here. how you finding it in termes of the way you look you seeing any diff?
    Well, it's only been a very short time, but...I think this routine works the storage system a lot. The day after the workout I look pretty full, but the next day I look more flat. I'm sure I'll be putting on muscle with it, but that kind of growth takes a while to be noticed.

    Quote Originally Posted by HJP View Post
    Same mate... If there ain't squats in the routine I feel like im not lifting!
    Absolutely. Even though there are suitable alternatives, it's been beaten into my head so many times it feels like cheating if I aint squatting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradruss View Post
    I agree, the clusters are great. Good work OR, those 20 rep squats are impressive
    Thanks Bradruss

    Quote Originally Posted by ELmx479 View Post
    Hitting a 20 rep squat after the cluster set is very impressive. I did a back down set of 12 reps and it was rough so I couldn't imagine 20. Nice work!
    The 20 reppers aren't bad if you keep the weight light enough. They didn't really start getting hard until about the 15th rep. The hard part was doing the stiffies after that
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  17. #117
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    You are truly a good squatter..nice job.

  18. #118
    Continuing... Time+Patience's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mchicia1 View Post
    Off Road...did you take any before pics prior to this program? If you stick with it for 3 months or so, id be interested to see a before and after. I am starting to steer more towards the size oriented goals now and I am looking at DC training or HCT-12 as the next program after 5/3/1.
    You can still make progress with your strength gains when catering your routine towards the size of things. I think you should still have the basics involved in a size routine.

    You can see that within OffRoad's current routine. He's only changing a few things around, but includes many of the basics in his routine.

    Loving your workouts. Heavy, hard, and consistent = progress.
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  19. #119
    Senior Member PIERCEY's Avatar
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    'Mirin the squats man. Strong as hell.

  20. #120
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mchicia1 View Post
    You are truly a good squatter..nice job.
    Thanks, I enjoy my squats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Time+Patience View Post
    \Loving your workouts. Heavy, hard, and consistent = progress.
    Thanks TnP, It's definitely hard and heavy, at least for me. I'm hoping the progress part comes with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by PIERCEY View Post
    'Mirin the squats man. Strong as hell.
    Thanks PIERCEY, not terrible for an old dude
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  21. #121
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Wed Dec 1, 2010

    Changing things up a bit...

    Torso supported barbell rows
    235 lbs x 6 +2 +2 +2
    175 lbs x 16

    Wide grip pull-ups
    BW x 6 +2 +2 +2
    Rack pull-ups x 20

    High incline seated press
    195 lbs x 6 +2 +2 +2
    150 lbs x 10

    Notes:
    I decided to rotate in a few different lifts. The rows felt about right, I like the no cheating of the torso supported rows. The pull-ups were very hard, the last couple of reps were a little shallow. I'll keep working on them. The big suprise was the seated presses. I haven't done them in a while and ended up banging out a PR. Kinda makes me think that the Westside stuff might have some merit. Anyways, a good workout...
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  22. #122
    Senior Member ELmx479's Avatar
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    Nice to see those pull ups in here. I've done supported rows using db's before and they are much harder but like you said, no cheating. Strong pressing too!

  23. #123
    Skinny Feet Kiff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    Changing things up a bit...

    Torso supported barbell rows
    235 lbs x 6 +2 +2 +2
    175 lbs x 16

    Wide grip pull-ups
    BW x 6 +2 +2 +2
    Rack pull-ups x 20

    High incline seated press
    195 lbs x 6 +2 +2 +2
    150 lbs x 10

    Notes:
    I decided to rotate in a few different lifts. The rows felt about right, I like the no cheating of the torso supported rows. The pull-ups were very hard, the last couple of reps were a little shallow. I'll keep working on them. The big suprise was the seated presses. I haven't done them in a while and ended up banging out a PR. Kinda makes me think that the Westside stuff might have some merit. Anyways, a good workout...
    What an example of a good solid workout no cheating and good weight.

    I like the torso supported rows might give them a bash this cycle i have been trying to think of something to swap my 1arm rows with!

    Great work OR
    http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...?136143-Hct-12

    A Westside journal.

    'There are no layby's on the road to strength'

    'The greatest pleasure in life is achieving things people said you could not achieve'

    'He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man'

  24. #124
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELmx479 View Post
    Nice to see those pull ups in here. I've done supported rows using db's before and they are much harder but like you said, no cheating. Strong pressing too!
    I feel like such w eak bastard when it comes to pull-ups (which I am), but I figured if I didn't start getting after it I'd remain a weak bastard

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiff View Post
    What an example of a good solid workout no cheating and good weight.

    I like the torso supported rows might give them a bash this cycle i have been trying to think of something to swap my 1arm rows with!

    Great work OR
    Thanks Kiff, I'm trying to rotate some exercises this time around to see if it helps with recovery and added progression. We will see...
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  25. #125
    Senior Member ELmx479's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    I feel like such w eak bastard when it comes to pull-ups (which I am), but I figured if I didn't start getting after it I'd remain a weak bastard

    I feel the same way with my OH Pressing, it's actually embarrassing to post my pressing workouts. We all have a strong point and a weak point. I was always able to do a solid 10 pull ups even when I didn't workout much while at the same time struggle with 20 push ups.

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