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Thread: Noob here! Help me understand protein intake

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    Noob here! Help me understand protein intake

    Here's what I DO understand. I know that if I'm weight training I should consume 1 gram of protein for every 1 pound of lean mass I have. I'm 190 lbs with about 20% bodyfat. That leads me to believe I need about 150 grams of protein a day.

    Now, what I'm not fully understanding is how much of that protein should be consumed immediately pre and post workout and how often I should consume protein throughout the rest of the day. I only eat 3 meals a day which would make each meal 50 grams of protein. The body can only absorb so much protein per hour so I'm wondering if consuming all that protein in only 3 meals is detrimental. I would break up my consumption into more meals but my schedule doesn't really allow for that.

    So what's the recommend schedule for protein intake? Is it wasteful to consume too much in a single meal? Any advice or information is welcomed.

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    Just get it all in. It's not going to matter much how you do it. And you can afford to go higher than 150g.

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    ..........
    Last edited by r2473; 01-21-2011 at 10:49 AM.

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    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    A lot of those questions are heavily debated.

    150 should be your bare minimum. Unless you're trying to lose weight, shoot for more than that and if its in 3-4 meals thats fine. If you can do 6 then do 6. If not don't stress it. People worry about these little things, they're really pretty unimportant.
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  5. #5
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    40g minimum preworkout 40g minimum post workout. I shoot for 55/55.
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    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    A lot of those questions are heavily debated.

    150 should be your bare minimum. Unless you're trying to lose weight, shoot for more than that and if its in 3-4 meals thats fine. If you can do 6 then do 6. If not don't stress it. People worry about these little things, they're really pretty unimportant.
    This is good advice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    A lot of those questions are heavily debated.

    150 should be your bare minimum. Unless you're trying to lose weight, shoot for more than that and if its in 3-4 meals thats fine. If you can do 6 then do 6. If not don't stress it. People worry about these little things, they're really pretty unimportant.
    That's what always confused me when I started, people eating 200-300g of protein and calling it a diet, heh. I guess it's different when you already have like 40-50 pounds of muscle packed on, your maintaining calorie count can go a lot higher. Being fat for so long seems to have given me a natural distrust of bulking diets...

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    Well a lot of times when people are "cutting" they'll up their protein intake, to preserve muscle mass.

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    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli View Post
    Well a lot of times when people are "cutting" they'll up their protein intake, to preserve muscle mass.
    Implying that they eat less protein than can sustain their muscle mass when not dieting?
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    When you have a high amount of calories/carbs, you can get away with less protein, yes.

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    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli View Post
    When you have a high amount of calories/carbs, you can get away with less protein, yes.
    +1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli View Post
    When you have a high amount of calories/carbs, you can get away with less protein, yes.
    That's true to the extent that a hypercaloric diet isn't typically in danger of inducing catabolism even with a poorer macronutrient ratio, but really most people do not "jack up their protein" come diet time. Most lower it along with their other 2 macros.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    That's true to the extent that a hypercaloric diet isn't typically in danger of inducing catabolism even with a poorer macronutrient ratio, but really most people do not "jack up their protein" come diet time. Most lower it along with their other 2 macros.
    I read it to mean that he maintains a high protein/calories ratio. Not sure if he means he actually eats MORE grams of protein than he would otherwise when bulking. I'll let him explain his comments though.
    Last edited by DjArcadian; 12-17-2010 at 11:38 AM.

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    Really, this is petty.

    My point was this - "well a lot of times when people are 'cutting' they'll up their protein intake, to preserve muscle mass" is misleading.

    You don't preserve muscle by jacking up your protein unless you were never eating enough of it. You only need so much. Catabolisms going to happen due to your deficit not whether your protein allotment is 2g/lb rather than 1.5g/lb. There are many who actually jack up their carbs at the expense of lowering protein on a diet (provided protein is still sufficient) as carbs are better at preserving muscle beyond your basal protein needs. my diet coach last summer wnbf pro alberto nunez coached me in this manner dropping my protein to about 1.1g/lb and carbs at about 1.5g/lb until later when we started carb cycling.
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    Interesting...Is that so the body has an adequate supply of carbs that it won't rob muscle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    Interesting...Is that so the body has an adequate supply of carbs that it won't rob muscle?
    When your muscles are glycogenated they're indefinetly safer.

    Ever see somebody get jacked on a ketogenic bulking diet? Dance with the shoes that brought you and keep your anabolic nutrients present as long as possible.
    Last edited by Behemoth; 12-17-2010 at 12:59 PM.
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    Cool...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DjArcadian View Post
    I read it to mean that he maintains a high protein/calories ratio. Not sure if he means he actually eats MORE grams of protein than he would otherwise when bulking. I'll let him explain his comments though.
    Im no expert on this, and I no longer believe in "bulking" or "cutting" in the traditional sense. But the way I see it, is that when you are taking in excess calories, you can "get away" with less protein. You still need sufficient amounts, and it doesn't hurt to take in extra either. But when you are in a calorie deficit and trying to preserve muscle, you'll need to make sure you are AT LEAST hitting your minimum needs, and in this case you might as well take in extra just in case. In addition, protein is very filling which is an added benefit of increasing protein amounts while "cutting".


    Im not sure about what the other poster said about carbs being better at maintaining muscle than protein. Maybe in certain instances, but to me, it seems counterproductive to increase carbs when trying to lose fat. Carbs and fat should be decreased, and protein should be constant or increased.


    And as I said, I dont really beleive in "bulking" or "cutting" in the traditional sense, so we may be comparing apples and oranges here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli View Post

    Im not sure about what the other poster said about carbs being better at maintaining muscle than protein. Maybe in certain instances, but to me, it seems counterproductive to increase carbs when trying to lose fat. Carbs and fat should be decreased, and protein should be constant or increased.
    That would be me, Behemoth, the ones you've been having this debate with...

    When I said increase I may have mislead you. I did not mean increase carbs above what I used to gain mass. I meant increase carbs above the amount that I had been dieting on because I started working with my coach about 1/3 of the way through my diet last year.

    And really it's common sense. Which would be more beneficial to build muscle - 550p/150c/100f or 350p/350c/100f ? The second obviously.

    Retaining muscle is simply what you did to build muscle except with less calories. Cut out the unnecessary excess nurtients until it cuts into your basal needs. I need 220g protein and 65g fat, above that they're pretty pointless. Carbs are much better utilized by the body once I've met those other two needs (220p/65f). It's at that point youre generally best off starting to remove carbs. Not because you don't need them or can't utilize their benefits (you can) but because you need to cut your energy intake.

    You don't start lifting light weights when you want to shed bodyfat you lift how you built it... Same goes for diet.

    Obviously you can lose weight other ways... that's simply about the deficit. but if you want to retain it, keep the carbs as long as you can and still lose weight. Period.
    Last edited by Behemoth; 12-17-2010 at 03:57 PM.
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    Senior Member BilltheButcher's Avatar
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    See if you can get to 6 smaller meals a day, it can be done. Go to www.fitday.com to track your macros (Protein, Fat, Carbs) and then post your macros for a week. From that macro information a lot of smarter, experienced guys in here can give you specific answers and advice. You can also list the specific foods you are eating - this can make a big difference in your goals.
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    @behemoth. You are talking about losing weight and I am more specifically talking about losing fat. There are similarities and differences. And the only reason the second option is better is that 550g of protein would be tough to take in.

    In your case increasing carbs was beneficial probably because you had them too low. You could probably have just used refeeds as well. Either way, contest prep is different than just normal body comp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli View Post
    @behemoth. You are talking about losing weight and I am more specifically talking about losing fat. There are similarities and differences. And the only reason the second option is better is that 550g of protein would be tough to take in.

    In your case increasing carbs was beneficial probably because you had them too low. You could probably have just used refeeds as well. Either way, contest prep is different than just normal body comp
    It was contest prep. I am specifically talking about losing fat while preserving muscle. 550g is an assinine waste of protein. Carbs are far better utilized at preserving muscle at that kind of intake.

    Increasing the carbs actually indeed slowed my weightloss, but I never would have been able to make later reductions without becoming extremely catabolic. I was using redeeds and have every other time id dieted before in the prior 7 or 8 years. Normal 8-10% bf diets are a cakewalk compared contest prep, your 1995 issue of flex magazine you're pulling your information any idiot can get there without catabolism.

    (From my phone ill edit for better clarity at home this was in a hurry)
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    Ya, Im not really debating anything here with you. We are talking about different scenarios, and your examples were too extreme to make comparisons. Contest prep is a different situation than and average joe starting out in the 12-20% range.

    In regards to your extreme example. Try a more reasonable example. Say someone is currently maintaining or even slightly bulking with 200g P/ 300g C/ 75g F/ ~2700KCALS.... If they want to lose fat, they can easily just swith it to 300g P/ 200g C/ 75g F..... Their weight would stay somewhat the same, maybe a slight loss, but they would lose some BF. They could also up fat a bit, and up the protein further if they are losing too much weight.

    The only point I was trying to make is that for NORMAL people, your theoretical required amount of protein will be higher the lower your carb and total calorie intake is. And Vice Versa, the more carbs you are eating and the more calories you are eating, the less protein you will need. But higher carbs is far from optimal for losing BF, so protein goes up as you cut out carbs.

  24. #24
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli View Post
    Dan Fanelli
    Ya, Im not really debating anything here with you. We are talking about different scenarios, and your examples were too extreme to make comparisons. Contest prep is a different situation than and average joe starting out in the 12-20% range.
    This is hardly a debate in my eyes.

    Contest prep is different for that reason that everything needs to be spot on to preserve muscle. Why would anyone want to diet and lose muscle? Why would anyone not look too and learn from diets that are most optimal for preserving muscle while losing fat (contest prep)? If you want to just lose weight quick, thats fine. Here a good diet for that -- eat 2 milkbones and a can of spaghettios per day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli View Post
    In regards to your extreme example. Try a more reasonable example. Say someone is currently maintaining or even slightly bulking with 200g P/ 300g C/ 75g F/ ~2700KCALS.... If they want to lose fat, they can easily just swith it to 300g P/ 200g C/ 75g F..... Their weight would stay somewhat the same, maybe a slight loss, but they would lose some BF. They could also up fat a bit, and up the protein further if they are losing too much weight.
    That would work for a change of about 0.2% bodyfat at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli View Post
    The only point I was trying to make is that for NORMAL people, your theoretical required amount of protein will be higher the lower your carb and total calorie intake is. And Vice Versa, the more carbs you are eating and the more calories you are eating, the less protein you will need. But higher carbs is far from optimal for losing BF, so protein goes up as you cut out carbs.
    No. It's not. You body needs X protein. Beyond X protein it will use extra protein simply for extra energy. Carbs are better utilized for extra energy as well as maintaining metabolism.

    The best scenario for losing fat is being able to do so at the highest intake of carbs one can get away with (while still ingesting their basal required amount of protein and fat). If one can meet their needs for protein and fat and lose weight consuming 400g of carbs, that is, with absolutely 0 question about it their best bet. If they can't lose weight with 400g of carbs it's because they're still ingesting too much energy. Then need to then lower their carbs.

    Let me ask you something, what purpose does extra protein provide beyond your basal necessary requirement for it?
    Last edited by Behemoth; 12-17-2010 at 07:21 PM.
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  25. #25
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    Carbs are not essential in any way. Eating more protein than is required will serve as energy and satiety.

    And you are still talking about WEIGHT loss and im talking about muscle gain and fat loss..

    Im sorry but I disagree with you on just about everything you've said. I dont want to debate this though. It doesn't matter to me. I dont think you are wrong, I just think you aren't right. I'll respectively disagree with you and lets just leave it at that.

    For anyone interested though, check out the past few episodes of "Bodyrx" on Itunes. Im not in 100% agreement with what they are saying but, they are much closer than the mainstream.

    Also this article,

    http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...tion-or-is-it/

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