The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Fear The Beard. Hobo Beard's Avatar
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    My Deadlift Form Progress (Videos)

    In the past 2 weeks, I've been working hard with my training partner and using the advice I got on here to improve my deadlift form.

    While I know I need to continue to work on sitting back more, utilizing more leg drive and pushing my hips through, I'm happy I've made some progress.

    The 605 deadlift I last posted was a max effort workout, whereas this 605 was pulled after 9 sets of heavy speed work (515x3x1, 545x3x1 and 585x3x1).

    I purposely wanted to pull 605 being tired so I could try and practice keeping my form when I'm tired (trying to replicate meet conditions) and really pin point my weak points.

    My training partner said I need to work on pushing my hips through the most of any aspect, so I'm going to do some sumo pulls next week to try and iron out my form.

    For this workout, I did the 10 sets of pulls, worked up to 22 plates on paused leg press (a suggestion from a board member) and decline sit-ups with a DB behind my head.

    Please, any comments/critiques/criticism welcomed!

    This is my first set of three with 585:



    This my last set with 605:



    Thanks again for all your guys' help!
    My monkey arms will not stop me from benching 500#!

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  3. #2
    Paul killxswitch's Avatar
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    Nice shorts! The DLs look strong too I guess I'm not in the habit of criticizing the form of people that much stronger than me.

  4. #3
    Senior Member gmen5681's Avatar
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    you need to do block pulls above the knee to work on your lock out, could also benefit with 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps of close stance good mornings. you are also rounding your upper back bad. you need to pull back not up. try looking up at like a 45 degree angle from the get go, you start the pull with looking down and as you are coming up you start looking up. keeping your head up, will keep your chest up and therefore keep your shoulders back. you are starting the pull with your shoulders in front of the bar, making it an up movement and not a back movement. you also need to get some stronger abs. thats part of the reason why you are caving as well. i relize its more of a ME type rep, but i would suggest doing a dead stop pull, not rolling it back to you and then pulling. you arent getting set from the get go because you are doing the whole rolling thing.

  5. #4
    Senior Member SELK's Avatar
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    looking strong,

    but watch the hitching, its a good way to injure yourself and you dont want to get used to doing lifts in a way that wouldn't count. Once the bar passes your knees try to lean back. Block pulls ill help too.

    Also your positioning off the ground is what is making the lockout harder. For whatever reason a more round back puller always shoots weights off the ground and stalls at the lockout. If you can get more arched and in a better starting position I expect your lockout to improve instantly.
    960/530/749 @ 242
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  6. #5
    Fear The Beard. Hobo Beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
    Nice shorts! The DLs look strong too I guess I'm not in the habit of criticizing the form of people that much stronger than me.
    Thanks! Haha.

    I rolled them up because the bar was catching on them.

    Doesn't matter if I'm stronger than you, you could still provide good types or relate what you did to get your technique better.

    My training partner helping me is way smaller than me (5'6", 180), but he's coached me recently and WAY improved my form on the squat, bench and deadlift.

    To me, knowledge is knowledge--no matter who it comes from!

    Quote Originally Posted by gmen5681 View Post
    you need to do block pulls above the knee to work on your lock out, could also benefit with 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps of close stance good mornings. you are also rounding your upper back bad. you need to pull back not up. try looking up at like a 45 degree angle from the get go, you start the pull with looking down and as you are coming up you start looking up. keeping your head up, will keep your chest up and therefore keep your shoulders back. you are starting the pull with your shoulders in front of the bar, making it an up movement and not a back movement. you also need to get some stronger abs. thats part of the reason why you are caving as well. i relize its more of a ME type rep, but i would suggest doing a dead stop pull, not rolling it back to you and then pulling. you arent getting set from the get go because you are doing the whole rolling thing.
    Thanks for the detailed advice, brother!

    After the meet, I'm for sure going to implement block pulls and close-stance good mornings.

    I feel you on that I'm making it a back movement and not an up movement for sure.
    I'm going to do speed pulls next week and I'll focus on your tips!

    Quote Originally Posted by SELK View Post
    looking strong,

    but watch the hitching, its a good way to injure yourself and you dont want to get used to doing lifts in a way that wouldn't count. Once the bar passes your knees try to lean back. Block pulls ill help too.

    Also your positioning off the ground is what is making the lockout harder. For whatever reason a more round back puller always shoots weights off the ground and stalls at the lockout. If you can get more arched and in a better starting position I expect your lockout to improve instantly.
    Thanks, bro.

    My training partner said the same thing about pushing my hips through @the top.

    You are right and I now realize just how much my setup is holding me back.

    Thanks for the input, bro!
    My monkey arms will not stop me from benching 500#!

  7. #6
    Fear The Beard. Hobo Beard's Avatar
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    For a point of reference, here's me pulling 605 2 weeks ago.

    I warmed-up for this as a max.

    My monkey arms will not stop me from benching 500#!

  8. #7
    Senior Member Bosshogg300's Avatar
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    nice pull
    " though the pain may come over you, never let it overcome you "
    FUSCULAR*(fus*ku-lar)adj.: A large person who is a combination of fat and extreme muscular mass.
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  9. #8
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    Your back isnt even straight when you start. You are relying on your back to bend so you will have more of an advantage mechanically. It shortens the range of the movement due to your arms starting out lower respective to your hip position when compared to a safer form.

    That being said, you are strong bro. I dont see how you havent hurt your back. If I do deads with form like that I will recieve a strain. I would lower the weight and focus on poking your chest out at the beginning. The only way you are locking out is because you rock back with the weight on your thighs. Here is a nice biomechanical analysis of the deadlift that illustrates well why a straight back is good. Seriously, from the time you actually start pulling to the time you actually lock out, you are doing less than a quarter squat.

    Before people get on me about "There are pros that do that" I know I know. Just trying to help.

    -Guy with short arms.
    Last edited by 4g64fiero; 02-22-2011 at 04:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by StormTheBeach View Post
    I think I am just going to start posting dick pictures on here until this thread gets deleted.
    18% BF down from 25%+ since April. Halfway to abs.

    Current 1200+ gym total. 214 lbs 5'10.5" 36.5" waist.

    Working on correcting some imbalances at the moment.

  10. #9
    Fear The Beard. Hobo Beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosshogg300 View Post
    nice pull
    Thanks, bro.

    I've always relied on brute strength and now it's coming back to haunt me!

    I knew when I started powerlifting again to reach my goal of a 405 pause bench and 675 deadlift I'd have to work on (or, rather, develop) technique.

    My training partner has helped me get a solid set up on bench, so now my main focus is on getting my **** deadlift form fixed!

    Off-topic: I have stolen your word "fuscular" and use it all the time now. Haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4g64fiero View Post
    Your back isnt even straight when you start. You are relying on your back to bend so you will have more of an advantage mechanically. It shortens the range of the movement due to your arms starting out lower respective to your hip position when compared to a safer form.

    That being said, you are strong bro. I dont see how you havent hurt your back. If I do deads with form like that I will recieve a strain. I would lower the weight and focus on poking your chest out at the beginning. The only way you are locking out is because you rock back with the weight on your thighs. Here is a nice biomechanical analysis of the deadlift that illustrates well why a straight back is good. Seriously, from the time you actually start pulling to the time you actually lock out, you are doing less than a quarter squat.

    Before people get on me about "There are pros that do that" I know I know. Just trying to help.

    -Guy with short arms.
    Thanks for the detailed response, brother!

    What you say about why I'm rounding my back makes perfect sense now that I think about it.

    Thanks for the compliment, bro.

    Honestly, after I watched my 605 deadlift from 2 weeks ago--I had the very same thought.

    I think some people are just made to take punishment.

    For example, the one day I taught myself how to write a dirt bike and had one fly up in the air because I popped the clutch, I landed with all my weight on my left thigh, on concrete (was on the road in Ocotillo), and didn't get more than a bruise. I thought I should have shattered my hip!

    I tell people if I had to show a beginner how not to deadlift, I would show them that video.

    The weird thing is my back didn't even really get that sore?

    I'm confident I have 675 in me, BUT I know I have to get my form down before I can make it reality.
    My monkey arms will not stop me from benching 500#!

  11. #10
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    Thanks for taking that right. I saw how high your hips were and found out that is something I should be trying to do as well haha. I know I could never have my hips that high and keep a straight back therefore I have ALOT of mobility/flexibility to work on. Do you think you gravatated towards your form you have today because of similiar issues?

    Here are some videos from a strong man on stronglifts.com that I found demonstrating what I mean.
    Quote Originally Posted by StormTheBeach View Post
    I think I am just going to start posting dick pictures on here until this thread gets deleted.
    18% BF down from 25%+ since April. Halfway to abs.

    Current 1200+ gym total. 214 lbs 5'10.5" 36.5" waist.

    Working on correcting some imbalances at the moment.

  12. #11
    Fear The Beard. Hobo Beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4g64fiero View Post
    Thanks for taking that right. I saw how high your hips were and found out that is something I should be trying to do as well haha. I know I could never have my hips that high and keep a straight back therefore I have ALOT of mobility/flexibility to work on. Do you think you gravatated towards your form you have today because of similiar issues?

    Here are some videos from a strong man on stronglifts.com that I found demonstrating what I mean.
    I have a huge ego, but I know I have to swallow it if I want to reach my goals.

    I think you are exactly right. I'm VERY inflexible. I definitely need to start doing some mobility/flexibility work for sure.

    Thanks for the videos. I'll check them out later tonight.
    My monkey arms will not stop me from benching 500#!

  13. #12
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    Others have provided good insight. I'll add this. You have to stop ramping and/or hitching the heavy weights up. If you can't complete the lift without doing so, don't complete the lift. Finishing weights by ramping and/or hitching them ingrains bad motor patterns.

  14. #13
    Fear The Beard. Hobo Beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burt128 View Post
    Others have provided good insight. I'll add this. You have to stop ramping and/or hitching the heavy weights up. If you can't complete the lift without doing so, don't complete the lift. Finishing weights by ramping and/or hitching them ingrains bad motor patterns.
    This is probably the only piece of advice I can say I won't be able to do.

    I'm in now way saying your advice is invalid--actually, quite the opposite as it is what I should do.

    BUT, I can't quit a lift. It's just not in me--especially deadlift.

    I'm going to keep working on my form and using my training partner's coaching and the advice on here, but I think the day I'm able to quit a weight, I'll have to quit powerlifting.

    I do think my form progressed noticeably in 2 weeks (especially considering I had better form this week after hitting 515x3x1, 545x3x1 and 585x3x1 before I hit 605) and I'm going to push for further progress before my meet.

    Again, I do appreciate your advice and don't want my honesty in this regard to prevent you from offering more advice in the future.

    Hope you take my comments as I intend them, brother.
    My monkey arms will not stop me from benching 500#!

  15. #14
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    Do you raise your hips off of the bench to finish a really hard rep? How about on the squat -- do you cut your heavy sets high? If the answer to those questions is "no," why are you okay with the fact that you're ramping/hitching your heavy pulls? (If the answers to those questions is "yes," then you are in more trouble than I thought.) If you can't learn to strain with a heavy weight and complete the lift using proper technique (defined here as technique that won't get you red lights), you're going to sell yourself short in the both the long run and the short run.

    I'm not suggesting you quit on the lift. You just need to recalibrate your thinking. You can't pull 600 right now. The fact that you locked the weight out doesn't mean anything because you're a powerlifter and that lift would have gotten reds. You locking out 600 by ramping/hitching it is the same thing as you not finishing the lift but maintaining proper technique -- they both equal no lift, just like a high squat or ass in the air bench equal no lifts. You're a strong kid. Check your ego and learn how to pull properly or go compete in strongman.

  16. #15
    Fear The Beard. Hobo Beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burt128 View Post
    Do you raise your hips off of the bench to finish a really hard rep? How about on the squat -- do you cut your heavy sets high? If the answer to those questions is "no," why are you okay with the fact that you're ramping/hitching your heavy pulls? (If the answers to those questions is "yes," then you are in more trouble than I thought.) If you can't learn to strain with a heavy weight and complete the lift using proper technique (defined here as technique that won't get you red lights), you're going to sell yourself short in the both the long run and the short run.

    I'm not suggesting you quit on the lift. You just need to recalibrate your thinking. You can't pull 600 right now. The fact that you locked the weight out doesn't mean anything because you're a powerlifter and that lift would have gotten reds. You locking out 600 by ramping/hitching it is the same thing as you not finishing the lift but maintaining proper technique -- they both equal no lift, just like a high squat or ass in the air bench equal no lifts. You're a strong kid. Check your ego and learn how to pull properly or go compete in strongman.
    To answer your question, I never quit a lift no matter what happens--I'm not built to quit.

    Luckily, my training partner fixed my bench form for me, so I don't have issues with my butt coming off the bench and we are going to tackle perfecting my squat form after this meet.

    I've just recently started powerlifting again and hadn't pulled a max from the floor for over 2 years.

    I've been humble, asked for advice and implemented it.

    While my form still needs work, it has improved noticeably over 2 weeks (especially when this last workout was more of an ME than a max).

    I recently lost 40# off my gut, so let's not act like I've been working with these same biomechanics for years.

    I interpreted "If you can't complete the lift without doing so, don't complete the lift," as I should quit.

    LOL@check my ego--I've been very humble and gracious for all the help other members have given me.

    If you re-read my comments to you, I thanked you although we didn't agree.

    Calling me a "kid," and telling me to "[c]heck your ego and learn how to pull properly or go compete in strongman" is not warranted in my thread.

    Again, I thank you for your input and ask if you want to comment further you do it in a more positive manner.
    Last edited by Hobo Beard; 02-24-2011 at 04:01 AM.
    My monkey arms will not stop me from benching 500#!

  17. #16
    Fear The Beard. Hobo Beard's Avatar
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    I KNEW I HAD TO KNOW YOU BURT128.

    You had way too much of a hard-on for me, Barrett.

    Oh man, can't wait until I lift tomorrow to tell the guys how you tried to anonymously talk **** to me on here.

    For someone who went to Berkeley and UCLA law school, your identity was sure easy to find with a simple Google search.

    I guess you took my comment hard that "This isn't ammonia weight," in reference to when you offered me ammonia before my 1st of 3 singles with your max (585).

    It's so weird that Burt128 on YouTube is pulling from what looks like to be the exact same deadlift platform I am in my videos???

    http://www.youtube.com/user/burt128#p/a/u/2/gu1KKzE2N68

    Hmm. . . Burt128 posting on Bodybuilding.com is 32 and also has a wife that runs in marathons???

    http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/burt128/

    "Look at getting hip resurfacing before you go for a full replacement. My wife had the resurfacing done and post-surgery has run two half marathons. Check out the "surfacehippy" group on Yahoo for more information. Sorry for the hijack."
    (source: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post579860771)

    I see you also post on TNation.

    Why act anonymous, Barrett?

    One word: COWARD.

    A six-figure lawyer can't man up to a little ADD-ridden "kid" like me?

    You know I LOVE this. Oh man, it's past 3 AM but I'm so AMPED up.

    1st it's going to be your deadlift.

    Then your bench.

    Then your squat once I can afford ART.

    Last edited by Hobo Beard; 02-24-2011 at 04:09 AM. Reason: Inclusion of cowardice.
    My monkey arms will not stop me from benching 500#!

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobo Beard View Post
    I KNEW I HAD TO KNOW YOU BURT128.

    You had way too much of a hard-on for me, Barrett.

    Oh man, can't wait until I lift tomorrow to tell the guys how you tried to anonymously talk **** to me on here.

    For someone who went to Berkeley and UCLA law school, your identity was sure easy to find with a simple Google search.

    I guess you took my comment hard that "This isn't ammonia weight," in reference to when you offered me ammonia before my 1st of 3 singles with your max (585).

    It's so weird that Burt128 on YouTube is pulling from what looks like to be the exact same deadlift platform I am in my videos???

    http://www.youtube.com/user/burt128#p/a/u/2/gu1KKzE2N68

    Hmm. . . Burt128 posting on Bodybuilding.com is 32 and also has a wife that runs in marathons???

    http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/burt128/

    "Look at getting hip resurfacing before you go for a full replacement. My wife had the resurfacing done and post-surgery has run two half marathons. Check out the "surfacehippy" group on Yahoo for more information. Sorry for the hijack."
    (source: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post579860771)

    I see you also post on TNation.

    Why act anonymous, Barrett?

    One word: COWARD.

    A six-figure lawyer can't man up to a little ADD-ridden "kid" like me?

    You know I LOVE this. Oh man, it's past 3 AM but I'm so AMPED up.

    1st it's going to be your deadlift.

    Then your bench.

    Then your squat once I can afford ART.

    I just LOLed.

  19. #18
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    Ha! I've said much the same things to your face, you just seem to like to listen to folks on the internet instead of people who have trained around you for years (though it is good you are listening to Chris, he knows his stuff). I thought I'd try and take a different tack to get my advice through. You are a kid, you are strong and your deadlift technique sucks. Fix it and there's no reason you can't pull 675+ with those damn ape arms you have.

  20. #19
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
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    This took a funny and uncomfortable turn.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  21. #20
    Fear The Beard. Hobo Beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burt128 View Post
    Ha! I've said much the same things to your face, you just seem to like to listen to folks on the internet instead of people who have trained around you for years (though it is good you are listening to Chris, he knows his stuff). I thought I'd try and take a different tack to get my advice through. You are a kid, you are strong and your deadlift technique sucks. Fix it and there's no reason you can't pull 675+ with those damn ape arms you have.
    LOL @your attempt to try be paternalistic and "take a different tack."

    The only advice I haven't taken is quitting a lift. Simple as that.

    My form has improved and will continue to improve.

    I don't take your advice in person because my success lies in direct contrast your own personal best interest.

    Normally, powerlifters thrive by opening helping each other--I just don't trust you.

    Your cowardly actions on here just go to reinforce my opinion.

    As for being a kid, if being a man means I have to be a liar, coward and back-handed, I'll gladly stay a kid forever.

    I'm going to end this back-and-forth between us online and in the gym here.

    Previously, I would have pursued this to the end since I do have the energy to do so, but my life has changed recently.

    Now that I've started to work on a project which will now be the subject of my doctoral thesis, I need to focus my energy on that, work and lifting--there simply isn't room for anything else to clog my mind.

    Honestly, for probably the last 15 years of my life, I woke up every day depressed and not knowing where my future lies.

    Now, I have what others have described as a "passion" and know I work hard every day to digitize books for students with physical/learning disabilities and do research/work to pioneer a standardized process for the narrative description of text-based graphics for blind users to furnish them complete access to learning materials as mandated by the ADA.

    So, in conclusion, from here on out, feel no need to try and "help" me and we can be cordial in person, as we don't have to be friends but there's no reason we can't be civil.
    My monkey arms will not stop me from benching 500#!

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamBAG View Post
    This took a funny and uncomfortable turn.
    Haha.

    Just calling like it is, bro.

    One of the big reason, besides I love what I'm working on, that I'm going into academia/consulting is I HAVE to call it like I see it.

    Too many people let **** slide that should be called out.

    As they say, "Just keeping it real!"
    My monkey arms will not stop me from benching 500#!

  23. #22
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    Uh, okay. I'm sorry you don't feel like I'm trying to help. I'll stop offering advice here or in the gym. Best of luck in your training and competition.

  24. #23
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
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    Just to take this back to a more "constructive" thread...

    are you yelling or letting your air out on these pulls? I can't say for sure if you are or not, but I think you are. Keeping your air to the top will help you fight off the rounding that you are getting. The advice Selk gave you about bad starting position is really good. I've had the same issues and bad starting position really limited the lockout of my conventional pull. Doing some direct glute work, like Zerchers off pins, glute bridges, hip thrusts etc. might also help you. I also found that deadlifting heavy against bands/chains helped me more than using block/rack pulls. This is because if I pulled off a pin or block my starting position was much better than if I pulled off the floor. Anyway, these might be some things to think about...
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  25. #24
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    Hobo Beard,
    looks like you're pulling 500+ & 600+ in your typical DL training, so i'm curious how you get to where you pulling that much weight without having your form down tight?
    most guys learn to get the form down good way before they are pulling that kinda weight.
    Last edited by Rugby Dad; 02-25-2011 at 02:24 AM.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamBAG View Post
    Just to take this back to a more "constructive" thread...

    are you yelling or letting your air out on these pulls? I can't say for sure if you are or not, but I think you are. Keeping your air to the top will help you fight off the rounding that you are getting. The advice Selk gave you about bad starting position is really good. I've had the same issues and bad starting position really limited the lockout of my conventional pull. Doing some direct glute work, like Zerchers off pins, glute bridges, hip thrusts etc. might also help you. I also found that deadlifting heavy against bands/chains helped me more than using block/rack pulls. This is because if I pulled off a pin or block my starting position was much better than if I pulled off the floor. Anyway, these might be some things to think about...
    Good idea, Adam.

    Barrett and I reconciled off-line, so no more bickering about what should be a hobby we both love.

    Other than standard protocol of attention-whoring, I have no reason to be yelling and I can see exactly how doing so will hurt me @the top.

    I've done Zerchers off pins a few years ago, but they wrecked my arms. Any advice.

    What are glute bridges?

    My buddies did hip thrusts the other day and I'll give them a try.

    I have the 2 of the new bands made for benching/deadlifting coming in the mail (the 2 lightest tensions) and I'm going to start pulling against them for sure.

    I've used chains years ago, but found I couldn't find the right place to lay them. Advice?

    I completely agree rack pulls put me in a much more ideal pulling position as I am taller.

    Thanks again for all your advice and I'll implement in my program for sure!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rugby Dad View Post
    Hobo Beard,
    looks like you're pulling 500+ & 600+ in your typical DL training, so i'm curious how you get to where you pulling that much weight without having your form down tight?
    most guys learn to get the form down good way before they are pulling that kinda weight.
    When I competed 9+ years ago, my form was good.

    I also weighed 198, so my biomechanics were quite different.

    @the APF Nationals in 2002 I pulled a 501.5 deadlift after squatting and benching no problem.

    Fast forward to now and I've come off either training heavy (not specifically powerlifting) and bodybuilding (or 3 or so failed attempts to be accurate) for past few years.

    I recently cut from 285 to 245, with one of the reasons being I couldn't even get down to deadlift!

    When I was that big, I did a lot of HEAVY rack pulls which obviously increased my pulling power from the pin heights, but not off the floor (did wonders for my grip too).

    As for the 605 I pulled first a few weeks ago, it was the 1st time I pulled a max from the floor in over 2 years.

    I'm built to deadlift: tall, long arms, chemical imbalance, etc., BUT I have get my form back.

    Hope that clears up the ambiguity a little bit, brother.
    My monkey arms will not stop me from benching 500#!

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