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Thread: My new workout

  1. #1
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    My new workout

    Just for fun, I thought I'd post my new workout that I'm going to be starting today...

    Sunday
    Squats 1 x 20
    Abs or Posterior (alternating)

    Monday
    Walk/Jog (2 miles)

    Tuesday
    Bar Dips 2 x 8
    Dumbbell Row 2 x 8

    Thursday
    Squats 1 x 20
    Abs or Posterior (alternating)

    Friday
    Walk/Jog (2 miles)

    Sunday
    Bar Dips 2 x 8
    Dumbbell Row 2 x 8

    Tuesday
    Squats 1 x 20
    Abs or Posterior (alternating)

    Wednesday
    Walk/Jog (2 miles)

    Thursday
    Bar Dips 2 x 8
    Dumbbell Row 2 x 8
    Last edited by Off Road; 01-30-2011 at 08:48 AM.
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  2. #2
    Skinny Feet Kiff's Avatar
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    Every question/opinion you have posted about 20 rep Squats, bar dips for chest work, and the less is more and recovery should come over anything else are about to be teste here OffRoad. Should be interesting to see!

    No overhead work? That would be my only concern, your such a good presser over the head would be a damn shame to see you not utilise that a bit.

    Do you intend to change your diet to accommodate the lower volume levels?
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  3. #3
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    I would like more volume although there is something to say for a minimalistic approach. Good luck with the new routine OR

  4. #4
    Senior Member GazzyG's Avatar
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    Thanks for pointing that out, Kiff. Was wondering what my eyes weren't seeing, lol!

    Thought you were a staunch advocate of the OHP, OR? Giving your shoulders a long overdue rest, hehe?

  5. #5
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    The routine will be used while tightening up the diet and trying to lose about 10 lbs.I want to feel lighter on my feet and have more energy for lifting and daily activities.

    There is no reason to hit the OH Press right now as the lift will be included in later routines. It will get back to the usual levels quickly when I include them again.

    My goal for this routine is to gain strength in a few [of my favorite] lifts that will cover all the basic muscle groups and be out of the gym as much as possible.
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  6. #6
    Skinny Feet Kiff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    The routine will be used while tightening up the diet and trying to lose about 10 lbs.I want to feel lighter on my feet and have more energy for lifting and daily activities.

    There is no reason to hit the OH Press right now as the lift will be included in later routines. It will get back to the usual levels quickly when I include them again.

    My goal for this routine is to gain strength in a few [of my favorite] lifts that will cover all the basic muscle groups and be out of the gym as much as possible.
    There is always a longer game with you mate

    I hope it works for you and does something to help your motivation.

    Good Luck
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  7. #7
    Senior Member GazzyG's Avatar
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    Very sensible! Hope you enjoy it mate!

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    Less is more. Really nice routine Off Road!

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    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Read the stickies


















    Last edited by Behemoth; 01-30-2011 at 11:38 AM.
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  10. #10
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    Read the stickies
    That's awesome!

    This was just posted by Brooks Kubik on his site, it is relevant to this thread and the way I feel...


    Most trainees do too many exercises, too many sets, and too many reps – and they train too often. It isn’t until they streamline their workouts and focus on QUALITY TRAINING that they finally begin to make gains.

    Quality Training is Tommy Kono’s term for what I call abbreviated training. He won two Olympic gold medals and one silver medal with Quality Training.

    Quality Training means you choose a small number of productive exercises, train them hard, and then stop for the day.

    Norb Schemansky won medals in FOUR different Olympics (1948, 1952, 1960 and 1964) – an amazing competition record. He once said, “If you can’t get it done in 45 minutes, it ain’t gonna happen.”
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  11. #11
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    That's awesome!

    This was just posted by Brooks Kubik on his site, it is relevant to this thread and the way I feel...


    Most trainees do too many exercises, too many sets, and too many reps – and they train too often. It isn’t until they streamline their workouts and focus on QUALITY TRAINING that they finally begin to make gains.

    Quality Training is Tommy Kono’s term for what I call abbreviated training. He won two Olympic gold medals and one silver medal with Quality Training.

    Quality Training means you choose a small number of productive exercises, train them hard, and then stop for the day.

    Norb Schemansky won medals in FOUR different Olympics (1948, 1952, 1960 and 1964) – an amazing competition record. He once said, “If you can’t get it done in 45 minutes, it ain’t gonna happen.”
    Have you ever trained very high volume for an extended period of time? It seems you commonly push protocols that you personally use and like and almost disregard opposing protocols as less than adequate or effective. When really in most circumstances it is an individual thing that nearly everyone should experiment with IMO.

    I've noticed this namely with your regard to volume and bulking style. I'm not disregarding low volume training, or heavy bulking you advocate as inappropriate, but have you gave the other protocols legitimate runs for their money? It seems at times you almost have an agenda to sway the masses to your style of training or related protocol, and I don't think this responsible.

    As far as volume goes, for someone who started off for years doing very low volume and very simple compound oriented get in and get out routines and then gradually progressed into higher volume I've learned it's a pretty individual thing. Having had great results with low volume, and progressed to higher volume there is an obvious reason I still train high volume. It's been more successful for me. My personal belief is that apart from trainee's in their first year or two of training, most undertrain and cop out at the sign of going the extra distance to make them great settling for only being average.

    At the very least one should try and push the limits of what they think they know about themselves every once in a while. Every time that I do it's humbling to realize maybe I wasn't so right and quite often plain wrong about what I thought I knew [with regard to myself]. And I continue to have this happen to me. In the future I will realize applicable things about myself that I have to admit in the past I should have changed before. But this doesn't happen until I try, I have to leave my ego about what I think I know and try new things. This happens all the time to me with diet in realizing that just because something works... it does not mean that it works as well as other options that I should have explored.
    Last edited by Behemoth; 01-30-2011 at 12:57 PM.
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  12. #12
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    Have you ever trained very high volume for an extended period of time? It seems you commonly push protocols that you personally use and like and almost disregard opposing protocols as less than adequate or effective..
    First, I only disregaurd volume training when it appears that it is not appropriate for the individual. You do not see me advocating that you use a low volume approach, do you? I recommend low volume when I think it is appropriate.

    Secondly, I only give advice on things I have direct experience with or first-hand knowledge of. You won't see me giving canned answers just to appear smarter than I am. You don't see me giving advice for west side lifters, volume trainers, dieters, etc. I may step in once in a while to recommend somebody cut back for a while to see if it helps, but for the most part I leave those threads to the capable hands of guys with more experience in those areas.

    Third, I am a firm believer in low volume training as it is a proven system. Every person that I use as examples have achieved high levels of strength or physique development while being drug free. For a local example, go read Tom Mutaffis' journal. He uses abreviated routines very often, when appropriate.

    Fourth, yes i have tried to increase my volume and always end up getting burnt-out. This has been documented over the past couple of years. The truth is, when I limit the sessions, my lifts start moving and the scale will respond better to the food I imput. So why not stick with what is working instead of wasting time trying something that doesn't.

    Fifth, Yes I have an agenda; to give people another option if things are not working for them. It is easy to persuade people to hit every muscle from every angle with a mulititude of lifts. That's exactly what they want to do when they start. But, it may not be the best way for them at the present time. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to convince people to streamline their training to see if it will work better.

    All I'm doing is presenting lifters with another alternative. Sure, I could be mainstream, but I have to be true to what I believe and it's helped many people on this forum achieve things they didn't think were possible with more conventional training styles.
    Last edited by Off Road; 01-30-2011 at 01:22 PM.
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  13. #13
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    John, In my response I'm saying this with all due respect. I know my first bolded response here is somewhat personally attacking, and I apologize if I've worded it less than optimally. But I feel when someone is wrong it should be called out, regardless of who they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    First, I only disregard volume training when it appears that it is not appropriate for the individual. You do not see me advocating that you use a low volume approach, do you?

    No. Nor do I give you advice...? I advocate anything. The common message and advice I generally give is everything is individual. To me the common advice I've seen you give is everything that you personally do. I just don't understand why. Honestly I believe it's an insecurity with what you personally practice not being totally sure of very much at all outside of your perhaps limited comfort zone.

    Secondly, I only give advice on things I have direct experience with or first-hand knowledge of. You won't see me giving canned answers just to appear smarter than I am. And I think that is right. But it needs to be presented as an optional way of going about things, not thee way of going about things. Maybe I simply read what you say wrong. I apologize if this is the case.

    Third, I am a firm believer in low volume training as it is a proven system. Everybody that I use as examples have achieved high levels of strength or physique development while being drug free. For a local example, go read Tom Mutaffis' journal. He uses abreviated routines very often, when appropriate.

    Everything is proven. People have had success with everything. This point is moot. To believe low volume training is the most proven is simply being close minded IMO.

    Fourth, yes i have tried to increase my volume and always end up getting burnt-out. This has been documented over the past couple of years. The truth is, when I limit the sessions, my lifts start moving and the scale will respond better to the food I imput.
    As far as the getting burnt out I have a personal opinion on it and that it's simply that you have to work harder to stay mentally tough. But I'm not here to debate low volume vs. high volume. I have no problem accepting that low volume is the best training method for you. I'm happy that you've found yours.

    Fifth, Yes I have an agenda. It is easy to persuade people to hit every muscle from every angle with a mulititude of lifts. That's exactly what they want to do when they start. Unfortunately, it may not be the best way for them. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to convince people to streamline their training to see if it will work better.
    I'm all for suggesting that a high volume trainee who has never tried lower volume experiment with it for a legimate length of time. This is what I'm about, tailoring things to be individual, and I say in nearly every thread. What I don't say is only one route, or method is the way. Such as -- high volume is proven. Or, heres a study about high volume being the best. Or here is a person who trains high volume who has had success. To me, that's all pointless.

    All I'm doing is presenting lifters with another alternative.
    As am I. I don't like seeing new lifters coming in here with 40 different exercises they do throughout the week. I too think thats a mistake and would back you up everytime telling them to streamline it. I'll go further to say that probably the vast majority of training questions of this nature we get should be told this advice. To condense and streamline. But there are certain time, places and applications for those routines that seem bogus because they have 5 exercises for the delts. For strength or general lifting purposes I think most often simple, compound, streamlined should very much describe ones routine. For proportional hypertrophy, I feel it is much more complicated and often requires a great deal of variation. And I don't want information like this swept under the rug to be disregarded as less quality than say... low volume.
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  14. #14
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Well, nobody can accuse me of being wishy-washy

    Do I believe that new lifters should train with abreviation and simple routines, YES. I believe it would be much better for them to start with low volume and build up as they progress. I feel it is a much safer route than starting with high volume and seeing if they crash first.

    Also, I've never said that abreviated training is the "only" way, I just simply offer it as a possibility to problems they may be having. If that seems dogmatic, then so be it. It is easy for me to sit back and watch 155 lb guys stress over why they don't have big arms after hitting them from every angle several days a week, but I choose to help. If my message is different than everybody else's, that's a good thing; more options.

    And i laugh at your thoughts on having to be "tougher." If you knew me, you wouldn't think that. Maybe Tommy and Norb should have been "tougher" too - lol
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    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    One last point, if you've followed my lifting journal (which you have periodically), you will see a steady increase in volume over the last couple of years. But after a time on that, I need a break and I often switch back to more abreviated training so I can focus on a couple of lifts while giving my system a break. My normal routine is 5/3/1 with 3 or four accessory lifts and four days a week. That's pretty typical volume for most lifters here. But it still fits within my recomendations.
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    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    Well, nobody can accuse me of being wishy-washy

    Do I believe that new lifters should train with abreviation and simple routines, YES. I believe it would be much better for them to start with low volume and build up as they progress. I feel it is a much safer route than starting with high volume and seeing if they crash first.

    Also, I've never said that abreviated training is the "only" way, I just simply offer it as a possibility to problems they may be having. If that seems dogmatic, then so be it. It is easy for me to sit back and watch 155 lb guys stress over why they don't have big arms after hitting them from every angle several days a week, but I choose to help. If my message is different than everybody else's, that's a good thing; more options.
    I do not disagree with any of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    And i laugh at your thoughts on having to be "tougher." If you knew me, you wouldn't think that. Maybe Tommy and Norb should have been "tougher" too - lol
    For high volume training? It's a different animal. In my early years I did a workout or two that would look like mine today... and I was whooped. So whooped that I thought I was overtraining. I was convinced. What I didn't realize is that later when I started regularly training high volume that I was always that beat. Or what I would have considered back then as run down, overtrained, or done too much. It's not that the training high volume became easier for me, it's that I realize how much farther the human body could be pushed and I was honestly being a little bitch in my middle years (early on I do think it was important I grew my roots in low volume though). This was the point of my overtraining thread a few months back.

    These guys said what I tried to articulate much better.
    Last edited by Behemoth; 01-30-2011 at 01:57 PM.
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  17. #17
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    So we agree...

    Low volume or abreviated training is a viable (possibly even preferred) option for beginners.
    Volume should be built up over time as the trainee becomes more advanced.
    My usual training volume is pretty much the same as most of the guys here on WBB.

    About the only thing I can be accused of is being a little dogmatic...but we all have our faults
    Last edited by Off Road; 01-30-2011 at 03:43 PM.
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    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Interesting video Behemoth. Thanks for sharing that. They put it into words very nicely.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

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  19. #19
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post

    About the only thing I can be accused of is being a little dogmatic...but we all have our faults
    I'll settle on that.

    It's like what me and Dan Fanelli get into time and time again in the diet section. He tells people to avoid carbs for the most part when dieting. I tell people to try to diet with carbs before ever eliminating them. I just hate to see people become close minded or swayed into thinking because something is right for somebody else, it would be best for them.

    It's very clear you do well with your style of training. And that's good that you make it your own. But options should always be explored outside of your comfort zone. I'm extremely guilty of not doing this myself. And though neither of these I would think mesh into my personality, I do plan on trying either DC or westside next year for the simple reason that they're both very drastic from anything I've done in the past. And I'm surely going to learn things about myself from them. In which case I'm going to have to humble myself admit I was wrong in areas. Maybe I'll train DC and have even more success than my current high volume. If that happens it doesn't mean DC is definitively better for all. If I came in here and started preaching that to all I hope I would get called out.

    No hard feelings?
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  20. #20
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    If you are a man, there are no hard feelings! Good discussion guys.


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  21. #21
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Those guys actually articulated it pretty poorly in my opinion.

    You simply cannot talk about high and low volume as singular factors with respect to overtraining. Training intensity, both in the bodybuilding and strength sports respects (effort vs. percent of 1RM) combined with volume dictates if overtraining occurs; not to mention a myriad of outside variables such as stress at work etc.

    Intensity and volume are inversely proportional (over time). The higher the intensity the lower the volume and vice versa. Now, there are intentional overreaching protocols and that is another idea all together.


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    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey54 View Post
    If you are a man, there are no hard feelings! Good discussion guys.
    Ya, discussions don't make me mad unless people try to twist my words. Aftyer all, this is the internet, not real life.
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    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Intensity and volume are inversely proportional (over time). The higher the intensity the lower the volume and vice versa.
    That's the way I've always understood it. I like the way you state it in simple terms so even I can understand it.
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    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Those guys actually articulated it pretty poorly in my opinion.

    You simply cannot talk about high and low volume as singular factors with respect to overtraining. Training intensity, both in the bodybuilding and strength sports respects (effort vs. percent of 1RM) combined with volume dictates if overtraining occurs; not to mention a myriad of outside variables such as stress at work etc.
    They did neglect to mention intensity. But it's almost implied that they workout at very intense levels. At least I assume that. Apart from mention of that it seems you're in agreement with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Intensity and volume are inversely proportional (over time). The higher the intensity the lower the volume and vice versa. Now, there are intentional overreaching protocols and that is another idea all together.
    Agreed. Unless one is working well below their maximum capacity in either said aspect and room is left to increase one without a necessary decrease in the other. I feel most people who think they are pushing themselves to their limit would be classified in the above mentioned parameters and still have plenty more capable effort to give if it were more dire.
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  25. #25
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Funny how this thread turned to the topic of over-training and that's not even the reason for the new routine - lol

    Anyway, I have gotten tired of the term overtraining, I now prefer "under-recovering." Because I think the person can handle a lot of volume if they get the required rest afterwards. And I also think there is a limit to volume, so a new lifter wouldn't want to start with the max ammount because there would be less room to progress.
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