The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Carryover from bench shirts

    I was just curious as to what is the most carryover anyone has got from a single ply bench shirt compared to their RAW bench? Does this translate usually to a percentage or is it just by the quality of shirt and how much you train in it? Thanks for any responses

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  3. #2
    Senior Member SELK's Avatar
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    Many factors, including technique, lockout strength, limb lengths etc.. Somewhere between 100 and 300lbs.
    960/530/749 @ 242
    903/524/738 @ 220

  4. #3
    Senior Member jtteg_x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SELK View Post
    Many factors, including technique, lockout strength, limb lengths etc.. Somewhere between 100 and 300lbs.
    and body fat too!

    I was able to press 405lb for a double off a "meet fit" single ply super katana. my best raw bench at that time was somewhere in the 310-325lb range. another factor i'd like to add is you either dedicate training your raw bench or shirted bench.

  5. #4
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    I got a fury that doesn't give near the carryover of a katana. So I do think shirt type makes a difference along with the other factors mentioned by others. Main thing is experiment with different shirts and find which one is best for your body type. I 'm not as good with a shirt as others and I get about 75-80 lbs out of a standard katana.

  6. #5
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
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    I'm getting about 150-180 out of a single-ply SK. Closer to 250 out of a double-ply Rage-X.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

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  7. #6
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    Id say 275+ out of my ACE when I was stronger. Im weak rite now so prolly alot less

  8. #7
    Wannabebig Member David Lewis's Avatar
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    I get 300 out of my Super Katana

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis View Post
    I get 300 out of my Super Katana
    your getting 300 over your raw max from a single ply?

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtteg_x View Post
    and body fat too!

    I was able to press 405lb for a double off a "meet fit" single ply super katana. my best raw bench at that time was somewhere in the 310-325lb range. another factor i'd like to add is you either dedicate training your raw bench or shirted bench.
    I'm still new to geared lifting, but have done one meet with a shirt and got about 90 lbs out of it. Since then I have been training raw but am planning on getting another shirt for a meet in June. I know i need to break in the shirt and work in it to get the most out of it, but I am also entering a raw meet in August. You mention either dedicate to one or the other, but is there a way to maintain both?

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamBAG View Post
    I'm getting about 150-180 out of a single-ply SK. Closer to 250 out of a double-ply Rage-X.
    how long have you been workin in your SK to get that type of carryover?

  12. #11
    THE 800 QUEST NickAus's Avatar
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    Yeah 150-200 from a single ply is common.
    Squat briefs only 625 @ 210
    Bench geared 525 @ 210
    Deadlift geared 650 @ 220

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  13. #12
    Wannabebig Member David Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shocker4221 View Post
    your getting 300 over your raw max from a single ply?
    Yup!! I am only 20lbs off my multi ply meet PR with my single Super Katana.
    Last edited by David Lewis; 02-11-2011 at 05:44 AM.

  14. #13
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shocker4221 View Post
    how long have you been workin in your SK to get that type of carryover?
    A few months maybe? I'd done a lot of benching multi-ply before I tried single-ply so the transition wasn't very tough.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis View Post
    Yup!! I am only 20lbs off my multi ply meet PR with my single Super Katana.
    I hate you Dave! 300!

    What size are you wearing? I've got a 50 and I'm 255. I think I either need a 48 or to at least take the sleeves in.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  15. #14
    Wannabebig Member David Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamBAG View Post
    A few months maybe? I'd done a lot of benching multi-ply before I tried single-ply so the transition wasn't very tough.




    I hate you Dave! 300!

    What size are you wearing? I've got a 50 and I'm 255. I think I either need a 48 or to at least take the sleeves in.
    I am sitting at 350 right now and have a 54...it is definatly tight and a pain to get on and off, but I am really impreesed with the shirt. Even the old regular Katana that I have I am getting 200+ out of...

  16. #15
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    Hit 530 in a six year old off the rack Fury (probably close to 120 carryover). I also maybe have a shirt on 10-12 weeks a year for two meets. Yea ideally I'd wear it more often, but I can see 200-300 lbs carryover from a single if you have good leverage and a big belly.
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  17. #16
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    I would guess I get about 200 or a little more from my single ply SK. The problem is I never take my raw bench to an absolute true max, so I don't know what I can or cannot do (I'm a shirted bencher, I just don't see a point of pushing for a raw max anymore). All I can say is I've hit in the upper 400's raw without too much struggle and I've gotten 735 full range in the shirt. I've also gotten 600 off a 3 board RAW and I've hit 805 off the same boards in my competition single ply SK if you want to use that as any kind of a reference.

    When I benched in a single ply Rage X, I was alot weaker---benching 435 (done raw in a bench contest) and benching 635 in a meet.

    So, based on that I'd say 200 is very believable for either shirt .


    One thing to be aware of is you absolutely have to have an SK set just perfectly for it to work right. If you can get consistent with it, its a great shirt. If you are not consistent with it or you have things off just a little bit, you will not be able to use the shirt to its maximum potential.
    Last edited by JK1; 02-11-2011 at 11:21 AM.
    Finally ELITE @ SHW..

    Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
    Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.

    The next stop: PRO total.

    HOO's Gym: building the strongest gym in the South, one plate at a time.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JK1 View Post
    I would guess I get about 200 or a little more from my single ply SK. The problem is I never take my raw bench to an absolute true max, so I don't know what I can or cannot do (I'm a shirted bencher, I just don't see a point of pushing for a raw max anymore). All I can say is I've hit in the upper 400's raw without too much struggle and I've gotten 735 full range in the shirt. I've also gotten 600 off a 3 board RAW and I've hit 805 off the same boards in my competition single ply SK if you want to use that as any kind of a reference.

    When I benched in a single ply Rage X, I was alot weaker---benching 435 (done raw in a bench contest) and benching 635 in a meet.

    So, based on that I'd say 200 is very believable for either shirt .


    One thing to be aware of is you absolutely have to have an SK set just perfectly for it to work right. If you can get consistent with it, its a great shirt. If you are not consistent with it or you have things off just a little bit, you will not be able to use the shirt to its maximum potential.
    when you say set just perfectly, what do you mean, the neck, sleeves?

  19. #18
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    My best raw bench so far is 365 and my best shirted is 450 in a meet and 455 in the gym. The lifts were all done around the same time. I'm hoping to get 400 raw and 500 in the shirt, so maybe I'm doing something wrong but thats only 100.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingns View Post
    My best raw bench so far is 365 and my best shirted is 450 in a meet and 455 in the gym. The lifts were all done around the same time. I'm hoping to get 400 raw and 500 in the shirt, so maybe I'm doing something wrong but thats only 100.
    your not alone. I have a Fury and was only getting about 100 lbs out of it, but maybe that's cause I had only worked in the shirt for a short time and being a beginner with them.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by shocker4221 View Post
    when you say set just perfectly, what do you mean, the neck, sleeves?
    Thats a bit hard to explain because it does vary a bit depending on a lifters proportions and how that lifter sets up--ie if they Arch into their setup or they do a "metal militia" type setup on the bench can make a difference in how the shirt has to be set..

    in a single ply SK, I think the sleeves need to be TIGHT and the collar a bit looser. If the collar is too tight, you'll never touch weight. If the sleeves are too loose, you lose support towards the lockout. Ken Anderson told me to break the shirt in, then have the chestplate and arms tightened until it is near my previous meet best before I can touch. The shirt will stretch quite a bit---it was frustrating at first because I had to have the arms tightened and the chestplate tightened. Now the shirt is broken in, it seems like its not stretching as much. If you use a single ply SK, plan on it having to be tightened. DO NOT try to stretch the arms if they are tight. Just pull them on, they'll stretch on your arms.

    Where you set the seam as it curves (remember this shirt has the 'torque sleeve' design with a curved seam) on the arm will determine how much you jack up the shirt. I personally seem to get more out of the shirt by rotating the sleeve seam vs just pulling the collar down. I've seen people put it on and then yank the collar down to the point their nipples are almost popping out and then go out to the platform and bomb.

    I don't use it extremely jacked up because I can't touch weight with it----if its set right I'll touch at somewhere around 600 give or take a bit. This does vary depending on how fat I am. Right now I'm a bit heavier, so I am touching with a heavier weight. I set the sleeves with the degree of twist I want based on the curve of the seam being at the point of my elbow wen I put it on. then when I'm in it, I just have my handler pull the front of the shirt tight, they don't pull on the collar, instead they pull the collar down by pulling the front of the shirt down.. I think you can stretch the **** out of the collar of a stock SK if you grab the collar and yank it down like you can a Rage X with a reinforced collar or a double ply shirt.


    Also always pull the back of the shirt up BEFORE you pull the front tight. I bench in a stretchy back. That back will work the collar of the shirt up as you get setup on the bench, so pulling it up gives a bit of leeway. I actually try to bunch it a bit on top of my shoulders.

    You will have to play with it a bit to determine how exactly it needs to be set for your proportions/body shape.
    Finally ELITE @ SHW..

    Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
    Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.

    The next stop: PRO total.

    HOO's Gym: building the strongest gym in the South, one plate at a time.

  22. #21
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    JK1,

    I am planning on getting the SK but am a bit concerned now that you mention the need to get the alterations done after breaking it in. The only meets I plan on competing in don't allow any type of alterations to a shirt.

  23. #22
    Senior Member hulk242's Avatar
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    I have been dedicated to raw lifting for almost 2 years. I threw an old karins dd on and get 300 lbs from it. When I was really working it before it was a bit more. There is not a huge difference in peaking for either. You have to throw a bit more mid and lockout work for gear and more low range for raw. I actually went back to training like I had when I was in gear and my raw is up. Goes to show..... As far as the singles out today, I don't get much more impressed, as I have seen some get around the same as a double. Not everyone but a lot are real close.

    I think just having and working the CNS to a great capacity will allow a big carryover. Along with dropping a sack and allowing your mind realize you can.
    Guerrilla Squad Barbell Member

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  24. #23
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
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    JK1, you are right about stretching. I'm definitely getting the sleeves taken in on mine after my meet next week. I'm not getting the carryover to lockout like I get with my double rage-x, which has super tight sleeves.


    Quote Originally Posted by shocker4221 View Post
    JK1,

    I am planning on getting the SK but am a bit concerned now that you mention the need to get the alterations done after breaking it in. The only meets I plan on competing in don't allow any type of alterations to a shirt.
    If you are going single-ply then SK is the way to go in my opinion. Every shirt will stretch. The SK is still really durable as bench shirts go.

    Quote Originally Posted by hulk242 View Post
    I have been dedicated to raw lifting for almost 2 years. I threw an old karins dd on and get 300 lbs from it. When I was really working it before it was a bit more. There is not a huge difference in peaking for either. You have to throw a bit more mid and lockout work for gear and more low range for raw. I actually went back to training like I had when I was in gear and my raw is up. Goes to show..... As far as the singles out today, I don't get much more impressed, as I have seen some get around the same as a double. Not everyone but a lot are real close.

    I think just having and working the CNS to a great capacity will allow a big carryover. Along with dropping a sack and allowing your mind realize you can.
    Very well said (as usual). My training is best when I just get in the shirt every three weeks or so and otherwise just try to get strong.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by shocker4221 View Post
    JK1,

    I am planning on getting the SK but am a bit concerned now that you mention the need to get the alterations done after breaking it in. The only meets I plan on competing in don't allow any type of alterations to a shirt.
    What I'm talking about isn't doing anything but tightening seams that are already there. As far as I know, even the IPF/USAPL allows you to tighten the existing seams on a shirt---you just can't add new seams or add or remove additional material.

    That should be legal--but I will say I do not compete in USAPL or IPF, so there may be something in the rules I do not know about.



    If that is the case, your only choice is to get a shirt that is smaller and stretch into it. That will be a bit harder to do, but it can be done.
    Finally ELITE @ SHW..

    Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
    Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.

    The next stop: PRO total.

    HOO's Gym: building the strongest gym in the South, one plate at a time.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamBAG View Post
    JK1, you are right about stretching. I'm definitely getting the sleeves taken in on mine after my meet next week. I'm not getting the carryover to lockout like I get with my double rage-x, which has super tight sleeves.



    Very well said (as usual). My training is best when I just get in the shirt every three weeks or so and otherwise just try to get strong.

    For me in a single ply SK, if the sleeves are too loose, I'll have a good pop off my chest, then basically nothing at about the level of a 3 board. If the sleeves are adequately tight, it feels as if there is pressure on the arms to just about lockout.


    Its funny you mention a Rage X. When I benched in that shirt, I had the arms relatively loose---much looser than the SK I use now. I also had a much tighter chest plate. In my mind, the chest plate is the key with a single ply Rage X. You have to have that chestplate tight or you won't get as much out of it. Ease of touchign is determined by how tight the sleeves are. If the sleeves are too tight, you won't be able to touch weight. To me its nearly the opposite of a Super Katana in terms of chest plate and sleeves and which one should be tight.


    I also agree raw stregth is the real key, even if you compete in gear. For me, the key is pushing raw strength up, especially raw board work on a 3 or 4 board. There seems to be a direct correlation between what I can do off a 3 or 4 board raw and what I bench full range in a shirt.
    Finally ELITE @ SHW..

    Single ply: 931 squat, 760 bench, 530 deadlift and 2180 total
    Multi ply: 960 squat, 770 bench, 550 deadlift and 2250 total.

    The next stop: PRO total.

    HOO's Gym: building the strongest gym in the South, one plate at a time.

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