The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    More reasons that HIIT rules

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=interval+group:misc.fitness.weights&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=6cbf4ab2.0211190854.579443a5%
    40posting.google.com&rnum=6

    Found this link on Supertraining-- it points to an MFW discussion regarding interval training specifically for fat loss.

    I've been saying for awhile now that shorter, harder intervals are better for fat-burning than using 20 or 30 second bursts, and this seems to lend to that argument, but with a bit of a twist.

    The study notes that, given equal treadmill speed and work duration, fat oxidation was 3 times lower in the group that used 24 second work intervals and 36 second rest intervals, compared to a group using 6s/9s ratios.

    "The decline in muscle oxygenation during work was correlated
    with mean lactate concentration (r = 0.68; n = 12). Lower
    levels of fat oxidation occurred concurrent with accelerated
    carbohydrate metabolism, increases in lactate and pyruvate and reduced
    muscle O(2) availability. These changes were associated with
    proportionately longer work and recovery periods, despite identical
    treadmill speed and total work duration. The proposal that a metabolic
    regulatory factor within the muscle fibre retards fat oxidation under
    these conditions is supported by the current findings."

    The discussion goes on to mention myoglobin, the oxygen-binding protein in muscle. Myoglobin provides short bursts of oxygen in anaerobic conditions. That seems to be the key here; lactate blocks fat oxidation, leaving myoglobin to fuel the oxidative process. Once it gets used up, fat utilization is shut off in favor of glycogen metabolism.

    Now, I'm not exactly sure what protocol was used in the study mentioned; I also don't know what "optimal" work:rest ratio exists. However, it is compelling information to keep intervals short and hard, using ample rest periods.
    Last edited by PowerManDL; 12-09-2002 at 12:19 PM.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

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  3. #2
    Senior Member hemants's Avatar
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    Linky no worky.
    If the only thing you are holding is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  4. #3
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Should work now
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  5. #4
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    WRONG!

    please try again.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  6. #5
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Cut and paste then you lazy heathens!
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  7. #6
    Bring it. DaCypher's Avatar
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    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=in...gle.com&rnum=6 should work.

    I'm not totally sure what this article says though. A 6s work and 9s rest period is the most optimal for fast loss? That seems like a pain in the ass to do on a treadmill, you would be constantly changing the speed.
    Obstacles are what you see when you take your mind off the goal.
    -Unknown

    Energy and persistence conquer all things.
    -Benjamin Franklin

  8. #7
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    No, its not saying that its optimal.....just that a shorter work interval seems to be better than a longer one....ie, a 15 second would be better than a 30 second, given the same speed, energy expenditure, etc.

    Now a good point was raised in that thread, in that it isn't necessarily the fat burned during the session that causes HIIT's benefits. HOwever, the more I think about it, the more likely it seems that you'd want to exploit it, because it would be a more "specific" adaptation to fat utilization....the adaptation to burning massive amounts of fat IS what interval training is all about.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  9. #8
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    Sounds good to me. The shorter the sprints have to be, the better .

    DaCypher, I think that would be impossible to do on a treadmill. It takes at least 10 seconds for the machine to go from resting speed to sprinting speed. There is no reason that you have to do sprints inside though. Find a running track or a long, straight, quiet road and do the sprints there.

  10. #9
    Ecoli die
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    I'd like to see someone confirm the results before I bank a whole lot of time on trying to do 6 second sprints on a treadmill.

    -As Vido points out, how do they get to sprint speed? On the other hand, how do they get to resting speeds?

    -Another point to consider is that it was a study of 7 subjects. If just 1 subject was in extremely good condition and 1 in very poor condition, the numbers could be seriously distorted.

    -I did not see in the article how they measured fat oxidations, only how they measured oxygenation.

    That being said, I love HIIT training.
    Now in pain, only working out the walking sticks.

  11. #10
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    The point isn't that the protocol used in the study is optimal, guys.....its that a shorter working period seems to be better than a longer one, for the purposes of fat oxidation.

    I'd not even attempt that on a treadmill, or on any piece of equipment. This would best be done outdoors.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  12. #11
    Bring it. DaCypher's Avatar
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    Hmm, my problem is that I can't really sprint (at least with any significant intensity) outdoors because I have a bad knee. I can only get away with sprinting hard on some of the newer treadmills at my gym (they seem to have better cushioning support). Maybe I'll have to stick with what HIIT I can do on a treadmill.
    Obstacles are what you see when you take your mind off the goal.
    -Unknown

    Energy and persistence conquer all things.
    -Benjamin Franklin

  13. #12
    Rockin' the midlife crisis xraygirl's Avatar
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    I bet that this would work on a StairMaster.
    "I always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." -Lily Tomlin

  14. #13
    Senior Member hemants's Avatar
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    Damn, no wonder I was leanest when I was playing squash.
    If the only thing you are holding is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  15. #14
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    i think i might have to try this on the stairs outside my gym.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  16. #15
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    It seems that the general rule is cardio in the morning on an empty stomach. Would this method of HIIT be just as effective regardless of when it was done?

    That would be great if it did because it is now too cold at 5:30am to go outside and sprint. If I could do this, with the same effectiveness when I get home from work, that would be great.

    If I can't go outside to sprint, don't laugh, could I just run in place?

    Thanks,
    Jerry

  17. #16
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Everything I've seen suggests that HIIT is far, far superior than AM cardio before food.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  18. #17
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    I don't think the reasoning behind HIIT is cardiovascular conditioning, but more specifically fat loss. I may be wrong. As for me, right now I am more interested in fat loss than cardiovasular fitness. Although I am sure that by doing HIIT you will increase your cardio fitness to some degree.

    Jerry

  19. #18
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    HIIT is the quickest way to increase V02 max as well as anaerobic work capacity. It'll help out your weight training or any strenous, short-term activity.

    As for being skinny.....it'll only make you skinny if you're already skinny. I've done hard HIIT training in the past without losing a single pound of muscle (granted I was skinny then but the point remains that it is muscle-sparing).
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  20. #19
    Bring it. DaCypher's Avatar
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    How long do these sprint/run intervals go for?
    Obstacles are what you see when you take your mind off the goal.
    -Unknown

    Energy and persistence conquer all things.
    -Benjamin Franklin

  21. #20
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    could you not do 6s/9s intervals on a treadmill by sprinting the 6s and then hopping onto the rails on the side of the treadmill? You would just leave the machine at the sprint speed and not have to constantly adjust it. This is how I do my interval training and it seems to work well. I understand it is best to remain moving throughout the training, but the difference between sprints and absolute rest would shock the heck out of your CP system, which would be a good thing.

  22. #21
    Senior Member Fudomyo's Avatar
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    I believe that Dr. Tabata's 1E1 protocol has been shown to have the biggest effect on anerobic AND aerobic capacity.

    10 minute warmup
    6-8 sets of 20 second sprints, followed by 10 seconds of rest
    Cool down

    It was as much as 50% more effective than 2 minute sprints, which is what I used to do.

    Fudo

  23. #22
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by zelsey
    could you not do 6s/9s intervals on a treadmill by sprinting the 6s and then hopping onto the rails on the side of the treadmill? You would just leave the machine at the sprint speed and not have to constantly adjust it. This is how I do my interval training and it seems to work well. I understand it is best to remain moving throughout the training, but the difference between sprints and absolute rest would shock the heck out of your CP system, which would be a good thing.
    Althougth possible, I cannot imagine anyone advocating it to someone they are liable for. Chances of breaking one's face I would imagine, would increase exponentially with hopping on and off a treadmill moving at sprint speed!
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  24. #23
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    lmao at nd, if you do attemp zelsey make sure to invite me to your gym to watch you
    accuflex - LOLZZZZ!!!11one1!! SOEM PPL WORK THRE ARMZ!!!!11!! LETS KILL THEM111

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  25. #24
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    what about combining HIIT in short intervals with morning cardio before food?

    You could take some glutamine to prevent muscle catabolizatoin (sp?), then when you wake up do the HIIT before eating.
    Would this be effective or would it be overkill ?

  26. #25
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    HIIT is glycogen fueled......meaning it wouldn't be very fun on an empty stomach.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

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