The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    chronic overtrainer
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    Deads, When do you do them?

    I do my deadlifts at the end of my back workout. I know many people like to do deads at the start of a back workout with the idea that if you put them later in a workout, fatigue of the stablizing muscles and overal body might make you more suseptable to injury.

    I like to finish up strong with deads at the end so that I leave the gym knowing I put my most into the deads and didn't save anything for "later".

    I've never done deads at the begining because I'm afraid I wouldn't have anything left to get through other exercises for my back. I think I am still handeling pretty good weight for my deads even though I do them last.

    I'd be interested in what some others people think about this. Deads, first or last on back day or somewhere else???

    FYI
    A typical back routine for me:

    1) Pullups 4-5 sets (about 50 reps total)
    2) Some sort of rowing exercise (T-bar, dumbell, or bentover) 4 sets 12-8 reps
    3) Seated rows or narrow grip pulldowns or narrow grip pullups 4 sets 12-8 reps
    4) Deadlifts 6 sets 2x10 2x8 2x6

    once in a blue moon I'll throw in some heavy dumbell pullovers instead of one of the other exercises listed as 2 or 3.
    Last edited by sweet-physique; 05-20-2002 at 09:40 AM.

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  3. #2
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    I do them with lower body work. They are either done first or second. If second, the workout starts with a squat or goodmorning variation.

    If I did the with back, the only exercise I would consider doing first was chins if I really wanted to go all out on them.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 515 SQ 295 BE 570 DL.....1375 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    515 SQ 302.5 BE 585 DL

  4. #3
    Senior Member
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    I've never understood doing deads on back day. Can anyone explain this one to me?

  5. #4
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MarshallPenn
    I've never understood doing deads on back day. Can anyone explain this one to me?
    1. It keeps them away from leg day, and squats
    2. My entire back is almost always sore from holding the weight. Good sore. Therefore, I consider them to be very much a back exercise.

    ND
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  6. #5
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    They definitely work muscles in the back, but I think the primary muscles use fit in much bette with lower body.

    I'm with you Marshall.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 515 SQ 295 BE 570 DL.....1375 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    515 SQ 302.5 BE 585 DL

  7. #6
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    Nate - The back muscles are used as stabilizers, but the target muscles are from the erectors down. It's all lower body!

    It does keep them away from leg day though, and I think it's fine to do them on back day b/c I think it's fine to train your legs 2x a week. It's just that it doesn't logically fit in with a 1x week split if you do them on back day.

  8. #7
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    I agree that they are a lower body exercise, but my upper back does get sore just from keeping it tight the whole time. Maybe I'm the only one?
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  9. #8
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    Your traps getting sore is likely to happen.

    The way I look at it is that your deadlift is more likely to go up from getting your lower body stroner with goodmornings, squats, pull thrus, hypers/reverse hypers, etc. Less likely to increase from chins and rows. So where do you think the brunt of the work is coming from?
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 515 SQ 295 BE 570 DL.....1375 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    515 SQ 302.5 BE 585 DL

  10. #9
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    Definitely legs, but I was just trying to explain why I did them on back day. I now rotate heavy squats and deads each week. Although I will be switching to HST soon as my gains have slowed to almost a complete stop.

    ND
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  11. #10
    Super Mastah Mod rookiebldr's Avatar
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    Interesting discussion, Maybe Maki can chime in since the WBB routines put deads on back day and SLDL on leg day. I have started to find that as I get my form better on the deads and the weight that I use has started to increase, that I'm feeling the deads on the lower body more than when I started do them. I also still noticing the effect that NateDogg stated above as well.

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  12. #11
    chronic overtrainer
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    I do my deads on back day because:
    A) while I do consider deads a whole body core exercise, I certainly feel they benefit my entire back and traps. I keep strict form and my legs (and hips) do most of the initial lift off the floor, but the top of motion is more back than legs, and traps when you roll a the top of movement. Still, for me its a total body exercise with more emphasis on back than anything else. My back limits my weight on deads much more than my legs do. that leads to B.

    B) Back is the second largest muscle group behind legs. Since I blast my legs with squats on legs day, I wouldn't want to add deads as I view squats, bench, and deads as the core exercises. (I'm still a BB not a PL) I think each should be done on a different day so you can give each of them, bench, squat, deads, your all. For me deads are the easiest of these three movements. They fit in good with back, and I think if I did them the same days as squats one would be sacraficed for the other. Just my personal preference. Also, I've heard some poeple say height plays an important role in deadlifting. Anyone esle ever here this??> I'm 6'2". Also, how about the point in my original thread of deads with back as the first versus the last exercise??? Any thoughts on this point??? Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it.
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  13. #12
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    I wouldn't think it would matter. I use HST and do SLDL's at the end of each workout without any problem. I would say the beginning though just because it will get your whole body warmed up for the workout!

  14. #13
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    First of all, it doesn't really matter when you do deadlifts, just do them!!! They are by far the best mass builder for back thickness (yes for BACK...I don't know what some of you guys are talking about when you say they do more for legs...unless you're talking about stiff-legged deadlifts then of course, but I don't think that was what the question was pertaining too). Anywhere in your back workout will do, just adjust poundages accordingly (You clearly cannot lift as much at the end of a grueling workout as you could if you did them right off the bat).

  15. #14
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    I train my lower back with lower body. Lower back, hams, glutes and hips are gonna move your deadlift. Not lats, rhomboids, traps,etc.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 515 SQ 295 BE 570 DL.....1375 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    515 SQ 302.5 BE 585 DL

  16. #15
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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  17. #16
    Hungry BCC's Avatar
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    I do them at the end of my back workouts.
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  18. #17
    Senior Member Kayak_boy's Avatar
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    I do them in the middle of my back and bicep workout.

    Bloody kill my back they do, don't know if I have correct form.

    One session I'll do squats, the next I'll do dead lifts.

  19. #18
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    I do them now and again off the floor to stay strong in that range of motion. But most of my deadlifts are done off the rack at two inches below the knees, and are done on back day because done in that fashion I find they stimulate my back more than my legs.

  20. #19
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    Isn't that a SLDL then? I do my SLDL's within inches of the floor, but I still consider it a SLDL because I'm not pulling off the floor.

  21. #20
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    To be a Stiff legged dead lift, your legs must be "stiff" it has nothing to do with where you pull from.
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  22. #21
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    Even in a SLDL your legs will have a bend to them and then be completely straight at the top of the movement. There is a difference between a stiff and straight legged deadlift. Let me ask it this way: if you don't go all the way down, how is that a deadlift?

  23. #22
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    If it is done off a rack, then it's really a rack pull. If it's not, it's just a "deadlift" with a crappy ROM. I think the difference between straight leg and stiff leg is just semantics.
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  24. #23
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    Nate - here's what I do:

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...gDeadlift.html

    here's a straight:

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...gDeadlift.html

    big difference IMO, no?

  25. #24
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    The only difference I see is that the second guy is going to have back problems. Their legs look quite similar to me.
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

  26. #25
    "Tuna Boy" NateDogg's Avatar
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    I may be wrong, as it would not be the first time, I just thought they were virtually the same exercise.
    "damn...can't beat logic like that.
    NAte is exactly right." - Tryska

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