The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Jason Huh training back

    Hmm, as I said on the other board, I think the fact he can train like that and still grow is more of a testament to his genetics than the efficacy of the method.

    http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/...-training.html


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  3. #2
    House Lannister
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Hmm, as I said on the other board, I think the fact he can train like that and still grow is more of a testament to his genetics than the efficacy of the method.

    http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/...-training.html
    Agreed 100%.

    Take me off my list for who I'd want to see in an interview. I was impressed by his 700# for reps squat, but his back training is laughable.

    He also looks really soft.

  4. #3
    Senior Member cphafner's Avatar
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    I saw your debate. So you aren't a fan on TUT?
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    "Now we're finally getting to the chicken or the egg question," I grinned. "Did I eat all that food because my size gives me more of an appetite, or did I get to be this big because I've been forcing myself to eat like this for years?"

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  5. #4
    Senior Member cphafner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Hmm, as I said on the other board, I think the fact he can train like that and still grow is more of a testament to his genetics than the efficacy of the method.

    http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/...-training.html
    Btw, I'm pretty sure Jason's dad was Mr. Korea or someother title, so it's in his blood.
    Last edited by cphafner; 04-02-2011 at 09:21 AM.
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    "Now we're finally getting to the chicken or the egg question," I grinned. "Did I eat all that food because my size gives me more of an appetite, or did I get to be this big because I've been forcing myself to eat like this for years?"

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  6. #5
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    pretty interesting way to train. i would normally laugh at ROM like that.. but clearly it is doing something for him. either that or the 2g of test per week or whatever it actually is.

  7. #6
    Senior Member cphafner's Avatar
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    Ok I just watched this video and I have never seen anything like that. This small seems so silly, but he is 300+ lbs, so it works for him I guess.

    I was referring to you disucssion about P.J.
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    I think this is possibly the all-time best response on WBB. - Jorge Sanchez

    "you're an animal eat like one damn it!" - Wikked1

    "Now we're finally getting to the chicken or the egg question," I grinned. "Did I eat all that food because my size gives me more of an appetite, or did I get to be this big because I've been forcing myself to eat like this for years?"

    From A Body Builder is Born

    i knew you were a beast but not that kinda of a beast that eats grown men and children.. lilmase

  8. #7
    Senior Member Raleighwood's Avatar
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    I hope anyone who is a natural and a beginner/intermediate realizes this is not the way to train to get to his size/strength.
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  9. #8
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevelle2291 View Post
    Take me off my list for who I'd want to see in an interview. I was impressed by his 700# for reps squat, but his back training is laughable.

    He also looks really soft.
    At over 300lbs he should look a little soft. He was just beginning his diet.

    Obviously he's found the part of the ROM that hits the muscle group he is trying to hit. I see nothing wrong with his training style.
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  10. #9
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meat_Head View Post
    At over 300lbs he should look a little soft. He was just beginning his diet.

    Obviously he's found the part of the ROM that hits the muscle group he is trying to hit. I see nothing wrong with his training style.
    Meat, the argument against his style of training is that taking the target muscles through a greater ROM leads to a greater stimulus for growth.

    Like I mentioned in the first post, I think the fact that style works for him is more a function of his freaky propensity for growth rather than how effective the training style is.


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  11. #10
    Squat Heavy, Squat Often Cards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Meat, the argument against his style of training is that taking the target muscles through a greater ROM leads to a greater stimulus for growth.

    Like I mentioned in the first post, I think the fact that style works for him is more a function of his freaky propensity for growth rather than how effective the training style is.
    Chris,

    I do believe in the beginning of the video he states that for a majority of his career he did full ROM, but only did partial ROM for his legs and saw greater development. Thus, he applied this theory to his upper body and has seen greater development.

    He does mentions that it's been a process of listening to his body through different types of training and the partial ROM has been the most beneficial.
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  12. #11
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cards View Post
    Chris,

    I do believe in the beginning of the video he states that for a majority of his career he did full ROM, but only did partial ROM for his legs and saw greater development. Thus, he applied this theory to his upper body and has seen greater development.

    He does mentions that it's been a process of listening to his body through different types of training and the partial ROM has been the most beneficial.
    Yep, I saw that. Mark my words, he'll get back to a greater ROM in his training sooner or later.


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  13. #12
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    Can it be argued that the beginning of pulling movements is mostly back and as the rom increases, more bicep is being used? Maybe he is "de-isolating" his bi's?

  14. #13
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mchicia1 View Post
    Can it be argued that the beginning of pulling movements is mostly back and as the rom increases, more bicep is being used? Maybe he is "de-isolating" his bi's?
    This is exactly what he's going for. There is a pro bodybuilder (I cannot recall his name right now, short blond guy I believe) with outstanding delts who uses a tiny ROM for overhead presses. The beginning and middle of the movement emphasizes the delts, while the end and lockout emphasize triceps. By doing partials he keeps the tension on the target muscle groups.

    Take the pullup. The closer you get to lockout, the more stress will switch from your lats to your rhomboids and elbow flexors. There are variations depending upon build, but generally this holds true. Therefore, if you are doing pullups for your lats, why not focus on the portion of the lift which really hammers the lats?

    If your goal is strength, there is little point in this kind of training(exceptions would be the obvious; bench press lockouts, rack pulls, etc), but if your goal is size it is at least viable for some individuals.
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  15. #14
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    The last part of the pull also involves a ton of effort from the back when you are driving your elbows down and back.
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  16. #15
    Pro Strongman | Moderator Tom Mutaffis's Avatar
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    I can understand having 'partial' work included as a way to overload or isolate muscles, but in my opinion doing nothing but partial lifts would lead to imbalances and would not be very efficient (you would have to do a lot more volume in order to cover all of the muscle groups).
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  17. #16
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    Partial reps are a viable method and can be used in several different ways such as: Training to get past a sticking point, training around an injury or as a short term training technique when one gets 'stale'. That said (IMHO) they are not a viable long term training method (Huh's success notwithstanding).
    Why?
    Typically (although not always) partials are used with heavier weights than one uses for a full range of motion. Both can contribute to degrading form over a long period of time, Also as was mentioned above this can lead to imbalances. And finally should one have trained with partials for some considerable time and then go back to a full ROM he is likely to struggle in those parts of the ROM he did not train while doing partials. Should he lower the weight to accomodate for this...it defeats the purpose of doing partials in the first place as the muscle in that certain ROM is now being under-stimulated.

  18. #17
    WannabePLer fpr's Avatar
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    There are a few big/strong guys at my gym and every time I see them bench they use partial ROM, probably about 4-6'' from their chest -- I always do full ROM -- they look far more developed than I do, but then I think they only train their upper bodies. Should one incorporate partial ROM into his workout?

  19. #18
    Determined jAy_Dub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by f=ma View Post
    pretty interesting way to train. i would normally laugh at ROM like that.. but clearly it is doing something for him. either that or the 2g of test per week or whatever it actually is.
    I'd gladly take 2g of test to look like that, but unfortunately it's not the test, its his incredible genetics.


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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jAy_Dub View Post
    I'd gladly take 2g of test to look like that, but unfortunately it's not the test, its his incredible genetics.
    touche! wasnt trying to discount the accomplishment though the tone does imply just that in hindsight

  21. #20
    Determined jAy_Dub's Avatar
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    So what do you guys think about this leg training?

    http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/...g-workout.html

    Have you ever tried training legs like this? It's brutal! I first tried it when doing a MountainDog leg workout and it killed me.

    I saw this video yesterday and ended my workout with some partial squats (bottom half of squat) and it absolutely destroyed my quads. I kept it light, 225, and focused on high reps to failure. The pump was insane and I could barely walk, not to mention I'm sore as shit today. I can't imagine trying to go heavy and doing bottom half partials though.

    I definitely think partials have their place. Then again, maybe its the secret for me to get huge!


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  22. #21
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    When I was into bodybuilding I would squat much like that when squatting for reps (a bit more of a ROM).

    What people have to understand, and what I think Jason is missing, is the mechanics of a given exercise either lend it to that style of training or don't. Squats done like that will really hit the glutes and quads hard. The squat, due to its very nature, deloads greatly as you ascend (leverage greatly improves). Keeping the quads within the portion of the ROM that places the greatest stress on them with the squat is certainly an intense way to train them.

    Rowing movements are different in that the lats stay heavily engaged throughout the ROM - much more so than the quads with a squat.

    Benching is something else. A lot of guys do partials and essentially stop the movement when the triceps really kick in hard. While that may work, you can't get a full contraction (the fullest possible in the movement) without pressing to nearly lockout.

    In the end, if someone feels compelled to train like that I would suggest they do full ROM movements first and then move on to the constant tension partials. That would give one the best of both worlds.


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  23. #22
    Senior Member cphafner's Avatar
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    Jay I have been finishing off with those. Tore me up
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    "Now we're finally getting to the chicken or the egg question," I grinned. "Did I eat all that food because my size gives me more of an appetite, or did I get to be this big because I've been forcing myself to eat like this for years?"

    From A Body Builder is Born

    i knew you were a beast but not that kinda of a beast that eats grown men and children.. lilmase

  24. #23
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cphafner View Post
    Jay I have been finishing off with those. Tore me up
    Same here
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  25. #24
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    this is kind of related. i have been attempting to do these partials with slower rep speed emphasizing contraction on the target.. and it is SO much harder.

  26. #25
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    If you want really hard workouts, try Dr. Darden's Super Slow Training.
    Kind of worthless...but it is very HARD and you'll feel like it's productive
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