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Thread: raw bench program...i need one..

  1. #1
    THE FRIDGE! thewicked's Avatar
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    raw bench program...i need one..

    bench is stagnant..it climbs..peaks..then bottoms out...no matter what program I try I always get to 370 then end back down around 340-350 no matter what I try. Shoulders are real week so I am attacking those but beyond that...nada.
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  2. #2
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    What programs have you used?


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  3. #3
    THE FRIDGE! thewicked's Avatar
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    lighter version of westside since I'm raw and drug free

    5/3/1

    and various sheiko programs...all work great...then I hit a wall and bottom back out. This has happened for years.
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    My bench is lower than yours, but to get it where it was I did 30 pounds in 30 days listed on here. My bench went from 300 to 320 in exactly 30 days.

    Everytime I have run 5/3/1, my bench has gone down.
    Last edited by mchicia1; 05-04-2011 at 02:28 PM.

  5. #5
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    I think westside, with lots of exercises you never do rotated in. And you dont need to modify westside stuff if your raw or drug free.

  6. #6
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    One of the easiest ways to increase bench is to gain weight - if that is an option for you.

  7. #7
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingns View Post
    I And you dont need to modify westside stuff if your raw or drug free.
    ^This

    9 times out of 10 guys are just picking the wrong ME exercises and doing their DE work incorrectly.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mchicia1 View Post
    My bench is lower than yours, but to get it where it was I did 30 pounds in 30 days listed on here. My bench went from 300 to 320 in exactly 30 days.

    Everytime I have run 5/3/1, my bench has gone down.
    I'm doing the same 30 day workout because of my bench stalling for a long time. After you did the program for 30 days, what did you follow it up with and did you maintain that strength?
    5'6" @ 210 lbs
    Best RAW lifts squat 385- bench 400x2 reps- DL 395
    Single Ply Bench 535
    Sigle Ply Squat 505

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    ^This

    9 times out of 10 guys are just picking the wrong ME exercises and doing their DE work incorrectly.
    I truly enjoyed doing a WS routine because of the different lifts, use of bands or chains, etc. but still have hit a wall with my bench. You mention a possibility is doing their DE work wrong, what exactly do you mean? Not being fast enough with reps or using too much weight and not having the speed?
    5'6" @ 210 lbs
    Best RAW lifts squat 385- bench 400x2 reps- DL 395
    Single Ply Bench 535
    Sigle Ply Squat 505

  10. #10
    Tyler Tucker
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    Westside has worked for me raw and added nearly 60lbs to my bench in a year. For DE Bench speed /form is more important than weight. Try changing ur grip during your DE as well as cycle band tension.
    --------Bench----DL----
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    Gym: 405------565----

  11. #11
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shocker4221 View Post
    I truly enjoyed doing a WS routine because of the different lifts, use of bands or chains, etc. but still have hit a wall with my bench. You mention a possibility is doing their DE work wrong, what exactly do you mean? Not being fast enough with reps or using too much weight and not having the speed?
    What Tyler said about technique being important is very true. If you are using sloppy form it's not going to transfer over to your ME stuff very well

    The other thing, besides using the three grips, is changing the band tension and bar weight or even using straight weight

    But yes, most people go far too heavy.


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  12. #12
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    This is all very good advice regarding WS. All of my 600 raw benches were hit using a conjugate method. Like Travis said, exercise choice is very important. That's not just for your ME, but supplemental and assitance exercises are important also. There are other things to consider such as form, nutrition, and recovery.


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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by shocker4221 View Post
    I'm doing the same 30 day workout because of my bench stalling for a long time. After you did the program for 30 days, what did you follow it up with and did you maintain that strength?
    LOL I followed it up with DC training and I wasn't ready for it AT ALL, so my bench went back down..then I went back to 5/3/1 and it went back down even more. Bench is a movement that I have to train frequently, or it goes down. On 5/3/1 it was only once every 9th day...in DC training it was one of my 3 chest movements, so it was literally only on the monday of week 1 and the friday of week 2, so not enough frequency.

    Now I train it every upper body day (twice a week) with low volume and it is just about back to 320. I just do medium weight on the first day and go for a heavy double on the second day, then follow it up with my hypertrophy work on the incline. It has been working well so far. I wouldn't hesitate to do 30 lbs/30 days again though, I would just be smarter about which program I followed it up with.

  14. #14
    I Wanna Taco johnnyo_99's Avatar
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    in regards to having to much weight on DE days, what is an example bar weight + band/chain combo that should be used for a a 250 lb 1RM bencher such as myself? I find the same difficulties and I tend to believe I go too heavy on DE days...

    on my ME days I rotate the following bench variations: incline, flat, 2-board. which is based on vincent dizenzo's bench routine.

  15. #15
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
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    I cannot disagree more about the raw/drug-free arguments with regard to westside. Those are just excuses. I'm drug free and totalled elite training with WSB methods. I've also improved my raw bench using westside methods.

    As Travis and Vincent have said exercise selection is key. You have to find what exercises bring your bench press up.

    As far as dynamic effort goes I totally gauge this on bar speed. My best raw bench is 385 and I very, very rarely take the bar weight over 185 (plus bands/chains) for speed work. Most times I'm in the 30-40% range. I don't force myself to use 50% bar weight if it isn't going to move fast enough.

    Again, using drugs, or a lack of drugs, as the reason why a program doesn't work for you is just an excuse. I'm not singling anybody out on this, just stating my opinion.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  16. #16
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    I thought on DE days it was necessary to use between 50 - 60% of a 1 RM. I always changed changed grips every other set but haven't used bands while doing lighter weights, maybe that could be a problem? Using a WS routine never gets boring because of the constant change, I think I either wasn't using it to it's potential or have a mental block.
    5'6" @ 210 lbs
    Best RAW lifts squat 385- bench 400x2 reps- DL 395
    Single Ply Bench 535
    Sigle Ply Squat 505

  17. #17
    Senior Member rockofages's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shocker4221 View Post
    I thought on DE days it was necessary to use between 50 - 60% of a 1 RM. I always changed changed grips every other set but haven't used bands while doing lighter weights, maybe that could be a problem? Using a WS routine never gets boring because of the constant change, I think I either wasn't using it to it's potential or have a mental block.
    There is nothing wrong with using lighter weights for DE work. I started with 135 and eventually over time worked up to 60% straight weight. 135 would have been 40% or so. Get a feel for the bar speed when it starts to move fast all sets increase the weight. Then when that weight moves just as fast as a lighter weight increase etc... When using bands or chains just adjust the weight you think is correct and when that moves fast with good technique increase weight.
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  18. #18
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Solely to provide another option, not saying better, worse, or equal; have you checked out the juggernaut method? Provides more volume than 5/3/1 and allows for more flexibility with working weights.

    Disclaimer: I am a very poor bencher with a gym best 315 and competition best 270. At the least though, you might want to read about the juggernaut methodology to enhance your training knowledge.


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  19. #19
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    I was thinking about this too. What is your current back work like?


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  20. #20
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    For my first 600 I started my training cycle with 185 for DE work. I added weight little by little, after sets 3 and 6. By the time the meet came over the 16 week training cycle I was using 365 for DE. I am working on a three week wave system for DE currently. Upon completion I am going to try and put something concrete together for the masses.


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  21. #21
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    For my first 600 I started my training cycle with 185 for DE work. I added weight little by little, after sets 3 and 6. By the time the meet came over the 16 week training cycle I was using 365 for DE. I am working on a three week wave system for DE currently. Upon completion I am going to try and put something concrete together for the masses.
    Vincent, I would love to see an article/outline of your DE work. Or what you would suggest at least.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  22. #22
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamBAG View Post
    Vincent, I would love to see an article/outline of your DE work. Or what you would suggest at least.
    I have been posting my training sessions in my log. I have been making it super easy by putting up the entire template for each week. I have posted up 5 weeks so far. Check it out there and ask questions about it in my log.

    I'm not trying to be a dick, I post my log for other people to learn from. I keep my own version on paper. I read many logs to get/steal ideas and I am a pretty accomplished lifter.

    I plan on writing a book on raw benching this summer.


    Supplements I currently take: Nitrean , BCAA , Creatine 500 , Multi-Plus , Fish Oil

    My Training Log , My Youtube Videos

    "The weak will never understand" - Vincent Dizenzo

  23. #23
    Bad Attitude Gym AdamBAG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    I have been posting my training sessions in my log. I have been making it super easy by putting up the entire template for each week. I have posted up 5 weeks so far. Check it out there and ask questions about it in my log.

    I'm not trying to be a dick, I post my log for other people to learn from. I keep my own version on paper. I read many logs to get/steal ideas and I am a pretty accomplished lifter.

    I plan on writing a book on raw benching this summer.
    I actually read your log on EFS (sometimes on here) and I have been copying/imitating what you do for a while. I must have misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were saying you were going to write an article about dynamic bench training.

    I really like how you have been outlining the workouts week by week. Seeing the bigger picture helps.
    750/500/690 APF Elite @ 242

    Bench Only - Multi Ply SPF - 600 @ 275 (251)

    Bench Only - Single Ply USAPL - 501 @ 275 (255)

    Bench Only - Single Ply SPF - 550 @ 259 (257)

  24. #24
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    There's no universal routine that works for everyone. It depends on a lot of factors. Me, personally, I just pick a weight (225, and with your max, you're about where I am), and I just rep it out as many times as I can for about 5 sets, mixing in some dips and pullups in between, and I always pick a target number of reps to do, and force rep if I can't get there.

    I'm not saying it works for everyone (so you 5000000lb. professional lifters don't come in here and say, "oh, you're wrong!"), but I've been gaining 5 pounds on my max every 2-4 days, and adding a rep or two per week to 225.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon63 View Post
    There's no universal routine that works for everyone. It depends on a lot of factors. Me, personally, I just pick a weight (225, and with your max, you're about where I am), and I just rep it out as many times as I can for about 5 sets, mixing in some dips and pullups in between, and I always pick a target number of reps to do, and force rep if I can't get there.

    I'm not saying it works for everyone (so you 5000000lb. professional lifters don't come in here and say, "oh, you're wrong!"), but I've been gaining 5 pounds on my max every 2-4 days, and adding a rep or two per week to 225.
    Here's a friendly challenge...post a vid of you doing 350-370 or whatever your max is.

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