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Thread: Question for Monstar and any other HST user

  1. #1
    God's Gift To Women Timastyle's Avatar
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    Question for Monstar and any other HST user

    I have been reading up on HST and I want to try it, but I got a few questions about it.

    1. I don't understand the deconditioning phase. When is that to be done and in what way?

    2. When it says to get your 15, 10, 5 rep maxs, does it mean even by struggling, or with ease? Does your max on 10 reps go up after you are complete with the 15 or does it stay the same?

    3. For negatives, are all the positives supposed to be done by the spotter, or are you supposed to do some work on them too?

    These are the only questions I can think of right now. Any help would be appreciated. I went to www.hypertrophy-specific.com, but couldn't find answers to these. Thanks.
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    Even though i didn't really like HST, i'll take a stab at your questions...

    1) SD is to be done following your 8 week cycle of HST. Basically, you just refrain from lifting to give your muscles time to "reset". That way, you'll experience growth when you start the next cycle.

    2) When you get your maxes, they should be MAXES. Remember that you will only hit these numbers once every two weeks. You do not change your maxes during the cycle. You complete one FULL cycle (15's, 10's, 5's) and then you can either re-find your maxes, or you can just bump up each exercise 10lbs or so. Most people seem to find that by the time they reach their maxes for each mini-cycle, they don't feel so heavy anymore.

    3) No idea on this one. I don't have a spotter so i skip the negatives. I would guess that you are supposed to lift the weights as much as possible, then do the slow negatives. If you didn't lift them at all, not only would it be next to impossible for the spotter (300lb bench press, for instance), but you would be doing less work than you did the week before (5 negs vs. 5 full reps).
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    God's Gift To Women Timastyle's Avatar
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    If I do decide to refind my maxes, do you suggest I do it during the deconditioning phase of my cycle?

    Is HST meant to be done for as long as you want in the 15, 10, 5, negatives cycle or should it be stopped after a few cycles?

    I still didn't get whether or not the maxes should be going to failure. Should I be struggling on the last two or so or not?

    Cue, why didn't you like HST? Did you get good results from it?
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  4. #4
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    2) Bryan has stated that it's not absolutely necessary to max out. Being that most trainees are mentally geared toward achieving failure, he put a max workout in every two weeks so that the trainees would have some mental satisfaction from doing it. According to his theory as long as you're adding weight progressively and working out the muscles as every 36-48 hours you'll still gain hypertrophy.

    3) I don't think it matters if you supply some work during the concentric phase. If you don't have a spotter you might have to "cheat" to get a weight up prior to doing the negative. Certainly the focus should be on the negative, and if you're spending too much energy on the concentric phase then the negative portion is going to suffer. If you don't have a spotter and you can't manage the negatives, you can just do two more weeks of 5s.

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    . Delphi's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Timastyle
    If I do decide to refind my maxes, do you suggest I do it during the deconditioning phase of my cycle?

    Is HST meant to be done for as long as you want in the 15, 10, 5, negatives cycle or should it be stopped after a few cycles?

    I still didn't get whether or not the maxes should be going to failure. Should I be struggling on the last two or so or not?

    Cue, why didn't you like HST? Did you get good results from it?
    After you finish a cycle, recheck your maxes and then do your deconditioning.

    Bryan recommends doing Strategic Deconditioning after every cycle. He feels it's necessary to do this so that the next cycle is productive. Doing 15s after SD is pretty tough for most people on the HST board. On your second or subsequent cycle you can skip the 15s unless you have some nagging connective tissue soreness.

    There's no limit on how many cycles you can do in a row.

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    God's Gift To Women Timastyle's Avatar
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    Delphi, so what you're saying is that I should do the 2 weeks of 15s, then take a week off for deconditioning, then 2 weeks of 10s, a week off, and so on?

    Have you ever tried HST and what are your thoughts on it?

    Thanks guys
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  7. #7
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    You only do the SD at the end of each macrocycle. It'll look like this:

    First Cycle
    2 weeks of 15s
    2 weeks of 10s
    2 weeks of 5s
    2 weeks of 5negs

    Recheck your maxes or just add 5-10 lbs to previous maxes
    Strategic Deconditioning

    Second Cycle
    2 weeks of 15s (optional)
    2 weeks of 10s
    2 weeks of 5s
    2 weeks of 5negs

    etc



    I started one cycle but I had to quit at the end of the 5s. I made the mistake of working my grip with Hammer curls and wrist rollers throughout the cycle and I ended up with tennis elbow on both sides. I only gained one pound the first cycle, but it was also my own fault. I didn't realize how much my metabolism was going to pick up from working out three times a week. I was eating at a rate that had allowed me to gain 20 pounds the last part of last year, but it wasn't enough calories for the workouts three times a week.

    I took off a week to let my forearms rest and then I did a cycle a different way- I only did one week at each rep range. I did a week of 15s, a week of 10s, and a week of 5s. No 5negs. This is called weekly cycling. Some people on the HST board do 15-12-10-8-5-negs. I tried doing linear progression, where you start with a certain weight and then add 5-15 pounds EVERY workout all the way through the cycle. The alternative is called zigzagging, where you back down the weight a little when you go to the next rep range. Zigzagging seems to work better for quite a few trainees.

    The third "cycle" I did was also done with weekly cycling, but I only did 15s and 10s. I've decided I don't have the recovery capacity to do 5s. My forearms still suck from the first cycle I did. I gained 5 pounds over the second and third cycles, after I discovered I could eat anything I wanted all the time. Hello, Whataburger.

    This week I just went back to doing a push/pull split. I have encounted domestic friction from spending so much time working out three times a week. It'll be interested to compare HST and push/pull. When I did push/pull last fall I was still using my Bowflex. I will probably go back and forth between push/pull and my bastardized version of HST- maybe 6-8 weeks of push/pull followed by 4 weeks of Bastardized HST.

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    God's Gift To Women Timastyle's Avatar
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    Can give me an example of zigzagging? I dont' really understand that one. Again I greatly appreciate the information you have given. It has been very helpful.
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  9. #9
    Bring it. DaCypher's Avatar
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    Is there an alternative to the 2 weeks of negatives at the end? I find it difficult to do them without a training partner...
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    Negatives are not that bad without a partner, you just have to do things isolaterally.

  11. #11
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    Here's a zigzagging weight progression for an exercise:

    15RM = 120
    10RM = 150
    5RM = 180
    Interval = 10 lbs

    15s
    70-80-90-100-110-120

    10s
    100-110-120-130-140-150

    5s
    130-140-150-160-170-180

    See how you drop from 120 back down to 100 when you go from 15s to 10s. Here's how you do linear progression. Same rep-maxes, but this time the Interval is only 5 lbs:

    15s
    95-100-105-110-115-120

    10s
    125-130-135-140-145-150

    5s
    155-160-165-170-175-180


    The problem with linear progression is that so many of your lifts are very close to your rep-maxes for each rep range. The last week of 5s could be a killer. Several people tried this on the HST board and had poorer results for that cycle, due to lack of recovery. Zigzagging is pretty boring when you're doing the standard two-week microcycles, but the results are better for a lot of people.
    Last edited by Delphi; 05-22-2002 at 06:01 AM.

  12. #12
    God's Gift To Women Timastyle's Avatar
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    Now I got what you're talking about Delphi. Thanks a lot. I was probably gonna do zigzagging without even knowing it.

    How have your results been with HST?
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    What Delphi said is dead on. Zig-zagging is the better way I think, or you can do a continual progression, but start lighter and avoid failure until the last day of the 5's. The problem with the latter is you might be starting at a weight that is too low to be effective. Tough call.

  14. #14
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    When I ate, I gained weight and strength. I ended up eating like I did when I was in my 20's. A year ago I would've porked out eating like I did last month. I just wish I hadn't done grip work the first time around. I'm still paying the price- I can't rest my forearms with my job.

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    Delphi - I injured my left elbow last summer, and then fell asleep with a bag of ice on it for about 6 hours. It was not pretty. It still hasn't healed properly!

    However, even just doing HST full on (heavy 5's and negatives), and just trying to be a *little* bit careful, it is managing to heal. Unfortunately, it's really affecting my arnold press, DB shrugs, and DB presses -- just kind of messing my form up from the weakness/having to prtoect it, so I know I could be pushing even heavier weights w/HST if it was better. But, my point is that HST can be good even for nursing an injury - just be patient and careful.

  16. #16
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    Tying suture is what's really kicking my a$$ right now. I can manage my workouts to where it doesn't bother my forearms, but the day after a full day of surgery I'm hurting pretty bad.

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    Yeah - I bet. That sucks. I feel it after typing code all day too. Doesn't help w/ the recovery at all. Hope you heal up soon.

  18. #18
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Re: Question for Monstar and any other HST user

    Originally posted by Timastyle
    1. I don't understand the deconditioning phase. When is that to be done and in what way?

    2. When it says to get your 15, 10, 5 rep maxs, does it mean even by struggling, or with ease? Does your max on 10 reps go up after you are complete with the 15 or does it stay the same?

    3. For negatives, are all the positives supposed to be done by the spotter, or are you supposed to do some work on them too?
    1. The strategic deconditioning phase is basically to help your body recover. Simply a way of giving your CNS a break and allowing it to completely recuperate and get ready to get hit hard once HST is started.

    2. Going all out, to failure.

    3. I am going to have my girlfriend spot me, but generally speaking your spotter is supposed to do it all for you.

    MS

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    God's Gift To Women Timastyle's Avatar
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    Monstar, what kind of results have you seen from doing it? Is it worth giving it a shot?

    Thanks
    ANYTHING can happen on a TUESDAY!!!

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    Yes, HST is worth doing. I know I'm not Monstar.

    To correct what you wrote Monstar - The primary reason for the strategic deconditioning is not for recovery, but to allow for the lighter weights to become effective once again after you've "deconditioned".

  21. #21
    God's Gift To Women Timastyle's Avatar
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    thanks a lot marshal
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    No problem, I hope you try it. I've made unbelievable gains with it and so have many others.

  23. #23
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Timastyle
    Monstar, what kind of results have you seen from doing it? Is it worth giving it a shot?

    Thanks
    Definitely bro. Go for it, go all out and reap the benefits.

    MS

  24. #24
    God's Gift To Women Timastyle's Avatar
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    monstar, how long have you been doing hst? what kind of results have you gotten? please let me know
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