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Thread: Jay Wainwrights's newest article! Back to Basics

  1. #1
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Jay Wainwrights's newest article! Back to Basics

    Learn how to build a BIG back, the kind that signals to the world you are a beast!

    http://www.wannabebig.com/training/back-to-basics/


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    Senior Member GazzyG's Avatar
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    Very interesting article! I think I'm probably guilty of using too much body English on db rows. Might start lowering the weight and focusing on form. Problem is I do them straight after chins, so doesn't take much to exhaust my kats by that point.
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    Ok so chins vs pullups....

    A lot of people say that chins works the bicep more than the back and vice versa for pullups. I actually disagree with this...I find chins work my back better because I can do more weight/reps due to the fact that my biceps are in a mechanically better position thus they do not tire BEFORE my back does like on standard pullups. I find that I always have to end a set prematurely because my biceps fatigue before my back on pullups...
    Last edited by mchicia1; 05-23-2011 at 01:38 PM.

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    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    I agree. The chin-ups work my back better than pull-ups because of the weight being used and the way you can pull your elbows back.
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    Luke
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    So are you guys saying that chin ups are a more useful exercise than pull ups?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodybob View Post
    So are you guys saying that chin ups are a more useful exercise than pull ups?
    I am saying that, yes. Easier to progress on, easier to target the back, easier to balance.

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    I've always thought weighted pull ups were king of lat movements but hes claiming chin ups are better.

    I'll be doing weighted chin ups tonight to try them out! I've honestly never incorporated chin ups EVER.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jAy_Dub View Post
    I've always thought weighted pull ups were king of lat movements but hes claiming chin ups are better.

    I'll be doing weighted chin ups tonight to try them out! I've honestly never incorporated chin ups EVER.
    Youll see what I am talking about . You can focus more on the back since you don't have to worry about your bicep failing.

  9. #9
    Senior Member tom183's Avatar
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    The chin-ups work my back better than pull-ups because of the weight being used and the way you can pull your elbows back.
    I've always preferred chin-ups to pull-ups for this reason as well.

  10. #10
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Ya, just picture the Nautilus pull-over machine that is supposed to be the best lat builder. It has a very similar motion to the chin-up.
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    Senior Member ZAR-FIT's Avatar
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    The exercises that blast my back the best happen to all be underhand / reverse grip... 1. Weighted Chins, 2. Reverse Grip Lat Pull Downs, 3. Underhand Smith Machine Rows...

    Oh man... Thinking about how my lower lats get pumped with these exercises makes me want to do the workout right now! Throw in some rack pulls and its perfection.
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    Who starts each rep from a dead hang? I certainly don't, I probably go down 3/4 of the way... wonder if I should go down more..

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    Quote Originally Posted by greemah View Post
    Who starts each rep from a dead hang? I certainly don't, I probably go down 3/4 of the way... wonder if I should go down more..
    I start every rep from a dead hang. But that's just the way I like to do them. The last time that question was asked, most people liked a little bend in the elbow at the bottom because they said they could keep their back engaged better. I guess that's fine too as long as you aren't bouncing out of the hole. Otherwise, I could see some bicep issues popping up. Hmmm...seems to be a few guys with bicep issues in the journals...
    Last edited by Off Road; 05-24-2011 at 07:23 AM.
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    Senior Member GazzyG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greemah View Post
    Who starts each rep from a dead hang? I certainly don't, I probably go down 3/4 of the way... wonder if I should go down more..
    3/4s here too. I like to keep tension in my arms.
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    Dead hang = initial pull with bicep. I go about 90% down...but this allows me to completely pull with my lats.

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    anyone else find shrugs with dbells worthless? because you can't get a dbell that's heavy enough.
    when i train shrugs it's only with bbell, and to start feeling pump and muscles stressed the weights gotta climb up, load the bar up to 400+

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugby Dad View Post
    anyone else find shrugs with dbells worthless? because you can't get a dbell that's heavy enough.
    when i train shrugs it's only with bbell, and to start feeling pump and muscles stressed the weights gotta climb up, load the bar up to 400+
    Pause at the top and hold for a second and do 25+ reps and tell me it's worthless

    I did chinups the other night and I sure as hell can't do more weight than pull ups. I've been doing pull ups with a 45 lb plate and 25 lb plate added for 8-10 full reps. With the chinups I did 12 reps with my bodyweight and was beat lol.


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    There is a good write-up regarding pull-ups and different grips hitting your lats better written by forum member Belial.

    http://www.rangerup.com/raupfi.html:

    If you want to do pull-ups, the only difference that your grip/hand placement makes is how favorable the angles are across your shoulder and elbow joints. Wide grip, palms facing away (pronated) pull-ups are the hardest for two reasons: One, your shoulders are at a bad angle, the lats (the prime movers) being put in a position that makes it harder for them to contract efficiently, and two, your forearms are rotated in such a way that your biceps cannot pull efficiently. So yes, these are harder than narrow-grip, palms facing you (supinated) pull-ups. But they're NOT a better exercise. The only reason to do them? If you're being tested on your wide grip, palms pronated pull-ups. Otherwise, stick to the easier, more comfortable exercise. Picture what your lats are doing in each motion. The SAME DAMN THING. In both cases, you're hauling your sorry carcass up from a hanging position, so you're doing the same amount of work. It's just hurting less.

    I found this from experience as well, both chins and neutral grip allow me to work my lats better. Pull ups for me are much more difficult.
    Last edited by LuNa; 05-26-2011 at 01:22 PM.

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    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jAy_Dub View Post

    I did chinups the other night and I sure as hell can't do more weight than pull ups. I've been doing pull ups with a 45 lb plate and 25 lb plate added for 8-10 full reps. With the chinups I did 12 reps with my bodyweight and was beat lol.
    You can't expect to try a new exercise and be able to put up 100%.
    How did your back feel afterwards? Could you feel it targeting your muscles differently?
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    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZAR-FIT View Post
    The exercises that blast my back the best happen to all be underhand / reverse grip... 1. Weighted Chins, 2. Reverse Grip Lat Pull Downs, 3. Underhand Smith Machine Rows...

    .
    Exactly. extend your arms out in front of you in an anatomically comfortable position. Now contract your lats and in the process, bring your elbows to your sides. Your hands will be neutral or slightly supinated. Forcing them into any other position is introducing mechanical inefficiency into the equation, which will make the movement more challenging, but will not necessarily improve the movement's ability to stress target muscles over their full range of motion.

    Neutral grip chins > chins > pull ups.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belial View Post
    Exactly. extend your arms out in front of you in an anatomically comfortable position. Now contract your lats and in the process, bring your elbows to your sides. Your hands will be neutral or slightly supinated. Forcing them into any other position is introducing mechanical inefficiency into the equation, which will make the movement more challenging, but will not necessarily improve the movement's ability to stress target muscles over their full range of motion.

    Neutral grip chins > chins > pull ups.
    I knew it! I just wasn't smart enough to explain it, thanks Belial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jAy_Dub View Post
    Pause at the top and hold for a second and do 25+ reps and tell me it's worthless

    ...
    yeah of course if you're doing dbell shrugs 25+ reps, you gonna get some benefit.
    i'm really talking about putting on thickness, mass on the traps, delts & upper back
    150lbs dbells x gazillion reps aint doing nothing

  23. #23
    Senior Member ZAR-FIT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugby Dad View Post
    anyone else find shrugs with dbells worthless? because you can't get a dbell that's heavy enough.
    when i train shrugs it's only with bbell, and to start feeling pump and muscles stressed the weights gotta climb up, load the bar up to 400+
    I'm right with ya. The only time I will use the DB's is if i wanted to superset with something or just to stetch where i'd just hold them for 20+ seconds at a time.

    Nothing can compare to that overloaded feeling that BB shrugs can give you IMO.
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    I love chin ups and pull-ups. I tend to find that my lats hurt the next day more at the edges when i do pull ups, and at the mid and top centre of my back more with chins. In my experience they are equally fantastic! The only trouble i have is gripping! apart from that its defiantly one of my favourite lifts!!

    The article is really great too! Fab addition to the site!

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