Is it still possible to build shoulders without overhead lifting?
Can you do dips, or is a shoulder injury preventing this?
A movement I've been liking lately (and I don't know if there's a specific name for it) it to lay on a 45 deg bench, facing down, and row dumb bells. Rear delts, man!
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6'2 - 105kg (231lb)
Wojo on his shoulder size:
"This exercise has helped my delt development the most - no question about it. I didn't even do any overhead presses for many years and only relied on these. "
Last edited by mchicia1; 06-06-2011 at 07:48 AM.
Lateral raises > an overhead lift IMO.
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Sure can. Go search for mountaindogg training article, not on ebb. John meadows talks about this exact topic.
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Food for thought. And I realize one can argue my use of using a pro as an example. I don't care. In my opinion Kevin Levrone Had the best shoulder development ever. Again in my opinion. That motherfucker did a lot of heavy overhead pressing, and just pressing in general.
If you feel you are at an advanced level and doing side lateral raises with super strict form is going to take you further, by all means go for it. If you aren't, start pressing something heavy over your fucking head.
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Absolutely nothing wrong with doing both though, advanced or not. I am just throwing them in for 1 set after my normal upper body days.
But this is not the debate here. That is a misuse of the exercise. Assuming you do both exercises correctly, it's hard to say one is better or worse. OHP allows the use of heavier weights and the possibility of lower reps. Low reps on laterals is a bad idea. Laterals have advantages, but the biggest one is targeting the shoulders for those that don't get enough of that from pressing.
IMO, this is how I'd break things down. If overhead pressing (or any pressing really) hits your delts hard and you can do it safely, then this is your best bet ALONE.
If OHP doesn't quite hit your delts hard enough (maybe it's more of a tricep exercise for you) then you should do some mix of laterals and pressing.
Lastly, if OHP bothers your shoulders, then work mainly just laterals.
I take a three pronged aproach to shoulders. I do laterals after free weight ohp because I dont feel like ohp actually hits the medial deltoids well. I treat the OHP as the main movement that I can go heavy on and use(~3x5) laterals as more of an accessory lift with more volume(~3x8). I get the rear delts with ( ~3x8) pendlay rows after bench on another day.
Is this a sensible approach to training delts? I have seen consistant progress....
@ Bold #2: I agree.
@ Bold #3: Disagree...it does not hurt at all to add laterals as a supplementary exercise to your presses. Targets completely different muscle fibers. Also, if you don't feel your OHP in your shoulders than you should reassess your form.
Last edited by mchicia1; 06-08-2011 at 02:57 PM.
Last edited by joey54; 06-08-2011 at 03:38 PM.
Also, my post was in no way directed to anyone posting here. Just providing the other side of the coin so to speak. I have stated this before, one needs to find what works best for them. At the same time, and I have been guilty of this too, many think they are advanced and need to do special tweaks when all they really need to do is lift heavy and put their time in at the dinner table. The simplest approach is sometimes the best, but also isn't always the easiest.
I am ranting more than anything, but I certainly am not implying people here fit the description above. Just heed the advice of those like Dante Trudel and Jim Wendler. Have a purpose for doing an exercise and find the ones which work the best for your goals.
Now someone embed Levorne overheading 4 plates!
Last edited by joey54; 06-08-2011 at 03:44 PM.
Last edited by chevelle2291; 06-08-2011 at 03:49 PM.
Most of the pros that have switched over to isolation-only routines have already put in their time with the big compound lifts. They've built their foundation already.
In before someone makes a smith machine comment.
But with laterals, Ive observed just about everyone going way to heavy and using way too much "english". They might as well do cleans or high pulls with a barbell.
#3 - Ya, probably wouldn't hurt, but if you dont need it, then I dont see any reason to throw them in there just for the hell of it. And the last part of this statement I disagree. Form can be a factor, just as individual biomecanics can as well. But if you are getting stronger and lifting heavy, I dont think this is the issue. Some lifts for some people are just not good for certain muscles. And I dont really see how laterals work different muscle fibers that OHP cant work.
Last edited by Dan Fanelli; 06-08-2011 at 06:29 PM.
What was the original question? Right, the answer is yes. I do almost nothing direct for shoulders and mine are pretty good sized. My training partner's are bigger and ditto for him. Nutshell, if you have a big bench you will have good shoulders.
With that said, why the question?
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