The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Tried to cut, hit a brick wall, should I now bulk?

    Age: 39
    Height:: 6 ft 1

    I was 184 lbs at 24% body fat.... I went on a long cut for several months and got down to 164 lbs at about 15% body fat. I lost about 10 lbs of strength during this cycle also..

    I look and feel a lot better, but I simply can't seem to lose anymore weight.... I might have hit that difficult plateau that many people encounter when trying to get their body fat to a very low number..

    Would it make more sense to start hypertrophy cluster training now, or should I keep hitting my head against the brick wall trying to reach 10% bodyfat and looking very lean?

    What do you suggest?
    Last edited by Eric Cartman; 06-27-2011 at 11:22 PM.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member BallsWideDeep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Age: 39
    Height:: 6 ft 1

    I was 184 lbs at 24% body fat.... I went on a long cut for several months and got down to 164 lbs at about 15% body fat. I lost about 10 lbs of strength during this cycle also..

    I look and feel a lot better, but I simply can't seem to lose anymore weight.... I might have hit that difficult plateau that many people encounter when trying to get their body fat to a very low number..

    Would it make more sense to start hypertrophy cluster training now, or should I keep hitting my head against the brick wall trying to reach 10% bodyfat and looking very lean?

    What do you suggest?
    I had similar stats to you a year ago, but I'm a decade younger.
    Do you use fitday's calorie tracker?
    What are your calories at?
    What are you doing as far as working out?
    Are you sleeping?

    At 6'1" 164lbs. @ 15% bodyfat you need to be real careful about how low you go in weight. I went down to 160, and fucked myself up from lack of experience. I still don't calve raise what I did when I first started working out. A few weeks CONTROLLED bulk would probably be great for your metabolism and mind. You might also be body dysmorphic. When you say about 15% that might be 11% with no abs showing.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallsWideDeep View Post
    I had similar stats to you a year ago, but I'm a decade younger.
    Do you use fitday's calorie tracker?
    What are your calories at?
    What are you doing as far as working out?
    Are you sleeping?

    At 6'1" 164lbs. @ 15% bodyfat you need to be real careful about how low you go in weight. I went down to 160, and fucked myself up from lack of experience. I still don't calve raise what I did when I first started working out. A few weeks CONTROLLED bulk would probably be great for your metabolism and mind. You might also be body dysmorphic. When you say about 15% that might be 11% with no abs showing.
    I use a calorie tracker and my maintenance calories are around 1700-1800 calories at the moment...

    I do a 3 day upper-lower split, currently doing Hypertrophy Cluster training type model, but I've been trying to eat a calorie deficit and lose weight.

    Getting plenty of sleep, sometimes even 10-12 hours...

    So you're saying if I go too low in weight, I will lose too much strength and muscle and hurt my metabolism? Doesn't appear to be a problem, since I can't seem to lose anymore weight no matter what I do...
    Last edited by Eric Cartman; 06-28-2011 at 02:18 PM.

  5. #4
    Senior Member BallsWideDeep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    I use a calorie tracker and my maintenance calories are around 1700-1800 calories at the moment...

    I do a 3 day upper-lower split, currently doing Hypertrophy Cluster training type model, but I've been trying to eat a calorie deficit and lose weight.

    Getting plenty of sleep, sometimes even 10-12 hours...

    So you're saying if I go too low in weight, I will lose too much strength and muscle and hurt my metabolism? Doesn't appear to be a problem, since I can't seem to lose anymore weight no matter what I do...
    No I don't think a low body weight will hurt your strength or metabolism. I'm just concerned for you. As a former skinny fat dude I think it's easy to overestimate how fat you are when you may just need to gain 10 lbs of muscle to fill out a bit. You named yourself Eric Cartman. Probably reading in to nothing, but that seems pretty negative.

    I went crazy trying to get below 10% BF. Now that I've put on just a little bit of muscle I like the way I look in the 10%-12%.

    It sounds like your doing things correctly with diet, sleep, exercise. Some will probably scoff at me suggesting it, but have you thought of incorporating one or two 20min HIIT cardio sessions a week. It can help keep your nutrient levels up while increasing your caloric needs.

  6. #5
    OG SDS's Avatar
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    I stop cutting at a specific weight regardless of what my BF% is. After doing about 4 cut/bulk cycles over the past 3 or so years, each time I hit that weight I have a lower BF%. You just have to keep at it, be consistent, and realize that these are long term goals.

  7. #6
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDS View Post
    I stop cutting at a specific weight regardless of what my BF% is. ... each time I hit that weight I have a lower BF%..
    This is my plan too.
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  8. #7
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    Ive removed "cut" and "cutting" from my vocabulary unless im referring to cutting a steak, or cutting the cheese. In all seriousness though, at 6'1 and 164lbs you dont need to be cutting at all. You should be able to make good progress by eating sensibly and lifting heavy weights. You are a prime candidate for a "recomp" or to at least "lean bulk".

  9. #8
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli View Post
    Ive removed "cut" and "cutting" from my vocabulary unless im referring to cutting a steak, or cutting the cheese. In all seriousness though, at 6'1 and 164lbs you dont need to be cutting at all. You should be able to make good progress by eating sensibly and lifting heavy weights. You are a prime candidate for a "recomp" or to at least "lean bulk".
    Unless he wants to be leaner which I've pretty much gathered that he does and is just frustrated.
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  10. #9
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Age: 39
    Height:: 6 ft 1

    I was 184 lbs at 24% body fat.... I went on a long cut for several months and got down to 164 lbs at about 15% body fat. I lost about 10 lbs of strength during this cycle also..

    I look and feel a lot better, but I simply can't seem to lose anymore weight.... I might have hit that difficult plateau that many people encounter when trying to get their body fat to a very low number..

    Would it make more sense to start hypertrophy cluster training now, or should I keep hitting my head against the brick wall trying to reach 10% bodyfat and looking very lean?

    What do you suggest?
    IMO 15% is closer to the upper limits of where one should allow their bodyfat and not the lower limits. Meaning it's better to get down to 8-10% and gain weight up to 15-16% than it is to gain and lose weight between 15% and 25%.

    I would keep dieting. Maybe take one to two week and raise you calories by a few hundred and then reduce them back to where you're at now. But do NOT jump right into a bulk. When I say raise by a few hundred it's not a free pass to quit dieting. It will still feel like dieting in fact.
    Last edited by Behemoth; 06-30-2011 at 09:59 AM.
    accuflex - LOLZZZZ!!!11one1!! SOEM PPL WORK THRE ARMZ!!!!11!! LETS KILL THEM111

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  11. #10
    Senior Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    IMO 15% is closer to the upper limits of where one should allow their bodyfat and not the lower limits. Meaning it's better to get down to 8-10% and gain weight up to 15-16% than it is to gain and lose weight between 15% and 25%.

    I would keep dieting. Maybe take one to two week and raise you calories by a few hundred and then reduce them back to where you're at now. But do NOT jump right into a bulk. When I say raise by a few hundred it's not a free pass to quit dieting. It will still feel like dieting in fact.
    Well lets just assume that I took this advice..

    Okay, so if I get down to 10%, will I look like a bodybuilder or will I look like a total wimp who has lost all his strength?

    I can only bench 135 lbs right now, I'm concerned I will get even weaker!

    On the other hand, you have a good point.. I'm not all that lean at the moment.. if I jump into a bulk, I will get FAT like Eric Cartman!

    Its a dilemma of sorts..
    Last edited by Eric Cartman; 06-30-2011 at 11:19 PM.

  12. #11
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Well lets just assume that I took this advice..

    Okay, so if I get down to 10%, will I look like a bodybuilder or will I look like a total wimp who has lost all his strength?

    I can only bench 135 lbs right now, I'm concerned I will get even weaker!

    On the other hand, you have a good point.. I'm not all that lean at the moment.. if I jump into a bulk, I will get FAT like Eric Cartman!

    Its a dilemma of sorts..
    Really, neither. At your point gaining 10lbs won't make you look like a bodybuilder and neither will losing 10 pounds, it's a long process. My suggestion is that you learn the indefinitely hardly discipline (to learn how to be lean) and you will eventually look like a bodybuilder. Anybody can eat a bunch and gain some weight/muscle. If you want to stand out then learn how to make that muscle show and every pound (of real muscle) you do gain will be extrapolated in appearance.
    Last edited by Behemoth; 06-30-2011 at 11:55 PM.
    accuflex - LOLZZZZ!!!11one1!! SOEM PPL WORK THRE ARMZ!!!!11!! LETS KILL THEM111

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  13. #12
    Senior Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    Really, neither. At your point gaining 10lbs won't make you look like a bodybuilder and neither will losing 10 pounds, it's a long process. My suggestion is that you learn the indefinitely hardly discipline (to learn how to be lean) and you will eventually look like a bodybuilder. Anybody can eat a bunch and gain some weight/muscle. If you want to stand out then learn how to make that muscle show and every pound (of real muscle) you do gain will be extrapolated in appearance.
    Thanks for the advice..

    I'm wondering what workout routine you recommend for me to get down to 10% BF ?

    I find that when I do high volumes of training, it just makes me very hungry and its very hard for me to eat below maintenance...

    Do you have a routine that will work for me?

  14. #13
    Senior Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Here is a pic of me....

    Everyone told me to bulk after seeing this pic:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #14
    Become Unbreakable Mark!'s Avatar
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    It's hard to tell because you're wearing a sweater. I kid.

    Follow behemoths advice.
    Last edited by Mark!; 07-01-2011 at 07:21 PM.
    "Light Weight"

    260's by May

  16. #15
    Senior Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark! View Post
    It's hard to tell because you're wearing a sweater. I kid.

    Follow behemoths advice.
    I'm getting a lot of contradictory advice in this and other threads...

    My decision is to try a CLEAN BULK for a while and see how it goes.. if I can "recomp" or keep off the fat, it might be worth it..

    I'm gonna start a journal soon as well, so hopefully you guys can help me keep on track with my goals..

    Thanks..

  17. #16
    OG SDS's Avatar
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    Shit man, this scenario is simpler than you're thinking it is.....just eat and lift heavy weights. Check your weight on Monday mornings.....if you ain't gettin heavier, eat more. When January 1 rolls around ease back on the food till you're 500 kcal below maintenance and keep lifting heavy weights. By Memorial Day 2012 you'll be leaned out right nice I predict. Do that 2-3 years in a row and you'll have a better physique than you do now, and that's what you're after, right?

  18. #17
    Senior Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDS View Post
    Shit man, this scenario is simpler than you're thinking it is.....just eat and lift heavy weights. Check your weight on Monday mornings.....if you ain't gettin heavier, eat more. When January 1 rolls around ease back on the food till you're 500 kcal below maintenance and keep lifting heavy weights. By Memorial Day 2012 you'll be leaned out right nice I predict. Do that 2-3 years in a row and you'll have a better physique than you do now, and that's what you're after, right?
    Yes, a 6 month clean bulk sounds possible for me,...

    You suggest I cut till Memorial Day in May? Thats like a 5 month cut... not sure I agree with that part of things..

    Like I said, I am gonna post a journal to make sure I'm doing it right, making the most gains, and not turning too fat again...

    My bulks in the past have been sloppy and counter-productive... I want to avoid that this time..
    Last edited by Eric Cartman; 07-02-2011 at 12:33 AM.

  19. #18
    OG SDS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    You suggest I cut till Memorial Day in May? Thats like a 5 month cut... not sure I agree with that part of things
    Yep, 7 on and 5 off. There are transition periods in between where you'll be ramping up or down with the food, and it'll take time for your body to adjust from the hyper-caloric state to the hypo-caloric, and vice versa. You're not digital......there's a bungee effect when transitioning, plus if you're like me your BMR will go up a few hundred calories in the summer, and drop off a little in the winter.

  20. #19
    Senior Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDS View Post
    Yep, 7 on and 5 off. There are transition periods in between where you'll be ramping up or down with the food, and it'll take time for your body to adjust from the hyper-caloric state to the hypo-caloric, and vice versa. You're not digital......there's a bungee effect when transitioning, plus if you're like me your BMR will go up a few hundred calories in the summer, and drop off a little in the winter.
    Cycles of this length might be right for some, but not sure its right for me....

  21. #20
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    I don't think your problem has anything to do with whether you are bulking or cutting and for how long. IMO it's clear that your training and diet are the problem. I'll get to that tomorrow as I promised

  22. #21
    Senior Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fanelli View Post
    I don't think your problem has anything to do with whether you are bulking or cutting and for how long. IMO it's clear that your training and diet are the problem. I'll get to that tomorrow as I promised
    Ok thanks, looking forward to seeing what you have to say...

    LIke I said, I'm choosing HCT-12 as my new program, that should fix the "training" part of the equation hopefully...

  23. #22
    Rory Parker Behemoth's Avatar
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    There's really no question about this. You're sitting somewhere in the rough ballpark of 20% bf. If you want to have a muscular physique it simply is not a good place to start from. If you want to gain muscle you really should be leaner before doing so, unless your goals are just to be bulky big and/or strong. But if it's to look muscular the only direction you should be going right now is down. No question about it IMO.
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  24. #23
    Senior Member Eric Cartman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
    There's really no question about this. You're sitting somewhere in the rough ballpark of 20% bf. If you want to have a muscular physique it simply is not a good place to start from. If you want to gain muscle you really should be leaner before doing so, unless your goals are just to be bulky big and/or strong. But if it's to look muscular the only direction you should be going right now is down. No question about it IMO.
    It took me 2 years to realize you were right!

    Thank you for this!!!

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