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Thread: New to forum, couple questions on my routine, 1.5 years of lifting

  1. #1
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    New to forum, couple questions on my routine, 1.5 years of lifting

    Hey guys, Im new to the forum so sorry if this is the wrong place posting.

    Just a brief background. My names Adam, I started lifting back in February 2010. I weighed in at 198 at 6'3'', not sure of the bfi. I lifted for a year at a 24 hour gym, mainly just taking whey and creatine for a small portion.

    After a year of lifting, was tired of the limited machines so I switched to a larger gym with free benches and more machines. As of now, I am 20 years old, 210, 6'3'' or so, about 10% bfi.

    About 7 months into lifting, I was around 225, though much more bloated. I didnt diet at all, I got sick and didnt lift or eat, and went down to 208. I have been around 210-215 ever since.

    I lift 4-5 days a week. Usually Chest/tris, back/bis, abs/shoulders, or some sort of mix up of that. Ususally for about 20-25 sets on a normal day of each muscle group that day, more like 30-35 on a good day. I am attempting to constantly throw in new exercises (cables/free weights/machines). After lifting, I almost never really have that good pump, I mean there is a pump but not like when I had first started, and I am never soar the next day. Dead lifts used to hurt for days after, and I am now doing more then I had ever deadlifted but yet my back or any muscle group is ever soar.

    I have about 3-4 shakes a day, one in the morning, one before I left, one after, and one at night. I consume ~150-180 grams protein via shakes alone daily. I try to eat simply, complex carbs, turkey/chicken sandwiches, tuna, etc. At the moment just taking whey and preworkouts.

    I am basically looking for advice on to bulk up a little more. I was looking to stay leaner and still put on some. I am at the stage where bicep veins are almost present and abs are vague.

    I dont have any legitimate before pictures, but Can get some fb and after pictures for you guys. I just need to get to like 225 but not get bloated from creatine or any other things, and just wondering if I am just lifting incorrectly or if I am just not noticing my gains.

    Thanks again in advance, and appologize if this is the wrong forum.
    Last edited by akoz; 08-02-2011 at 06:38 PM.

  2. #2
    House Lannister
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    Pics would help. That's a LOT of volume, but if you are seeing results it may be okay. Just depends on what you can handle and what works best for you.

    I hope you're training legs.

  3. #3
    Squat Heavy, Squat Often Cards's Avatar
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    You need to eat, your routine has no impact on how much weight you gain, but rather if the calories help to fuel muscle growth or fat. The old way of doing this would be to stuff your face then stuff it some more, but this board has since digressed and the new trend is to eat slight above your normal caloric intake.

    Regardless, you need to eat and you need to train...switching to a proven routine may help too.

    Also, read and read some more. 35 sets for shoulders, seriously?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cards View Post
    You need to eat, your routine has no impact on how much weight you gain, but rather if the calories help to fuel muscle growth or fat. The old way of doing this would be to stuff your face then stuff it some more, but this board has since digressed and the new trend is to eat slight above your normal caloric intake.

    Regardless, you need to eat and you need to train...switching to a proven routine may help too.

    Also, read and read some more. 35 sets for shoulders, seriously?
    Post above this one, what do you mean by volume?

    And to this guy, I do think eating would help. But I dont wanna be bloated and put on fat. Regardless, I think I am the thinnest ive been since lifting, yet my size is slightly bigger then the times when I was super bloated and such.

    And I do my sets 6-8 reps, or until my muscle just cant put up, then I train to fail. I was reading up on the hct thing, and it had mixed reviews on this. For shoulders I would do something along the lines of:

    10 sets - cable side raises 6-12 reps
    6 sets of shoulder press machine 6-8 reps
    6 reps of shrugs 6-10 reps
    6 of misc shoulder exercise

    I honestly dont count or log (have tried but lost interest) my exercises, thats all guestimates. Thats a normal day.

    On a day i work, I ususally eat only 4 times a day: One around 7 am, one at 12 am, one at 6pm, and one maybe later on. I work 10 hours so getting time in for food can be tough.

    On a regular day, I usually eat maybe 5-6 meals, usually turkey/chicken/peanut butter along with like a yogurt and my 3-4 shakes a day.

    I havent really incorperated legs, the main reason was they always got shot after a couple sets. Bad pain, as in it was hard for me to walk normal the next day. Since ive been lifting, I was a waitor for a year during my lifting working pretty often so I couldnt have it sacrifice what acutally paid for my membership and supplements. I am not a waiter anymore, but I still do a lot of walking around depending on how busy the day is, but I am going to incorperate squats and more legs because I know it is necessary.

    I will try to get some pictures tonight, and maybe some girth measurements just for my own records. Any other recommendations?

  5. #5
    Wannabebig Member ozmarc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akoz View Post
    I havent really incorperated legs, the main reason was they always got shot after a couple sets.
    That's your first problem right there, you need a heavy leg day

    Quote Originally Posted by akoz View Post
    Bad pain, as in it was hard for me to walk normal the next day.
    What do you mean by pain? Typically the day after a good leg session you will find you have trouble walking, its all part of the game

    Quote Originally Posted by akoz View Post
    Ibut I am going to incorperate squats and more legs because I know it is necessary..
    Good to hear, also I would considering adding deadlifts is this isnt in your program so far. Overall I think you could simplify everything a litte more and focus on the key compound lifts (i.e. Bench, Squat, Deadlift, Rows etc)

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    Ok guys, here are some pictures I'd figure id post to maybe help out what you guys think I can improve on (basically EVERYTHING lmao).

    Hardly touched a weight before, 3-4 years back

    About 4-5 months in lifting

    About march '11 (had actual pics between these times, thank you hard drive failures)

    8/3/11 (about 1.5 years into lifting)
    Normal

    Flexed


    awkward

    Last edited by akoz; 08-03-2011 at 07:33 PM.

  7. #7
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    From my pictures, I feel like I havent gained much from the march -> today, which was nearly half a year of lifting. I mean my arm is a little more defined, but for lifting 4-5 days a week and taking protein regularly, I feel that my gains should have been a bit more.

    Update of today:
    Today I had tried the Hypertrophy plan B.

    Mon and Fri: Vertical pulls, Horizontal pulls, Horizontal press, Vertical Press, Tris.
    Wed and Sat: Quads, Hip (??), Calf, biceps, abs.

    I am not sure how much I like it. Reguardless, I am used to doing 1-2 muscle groups for 1.5-2 hours, rather then 5 groups for only 10 sets. It just seems to drag, but I did notice a little more of a pump in my bis with less sets done.

    The only thing I dont really get about this plan is its supposed to be about ~50 sets. That leaves 10 sets for each group. So basically monday, I would get 20 sets back, 10 sets of chest, 10 sets of shoulders, and 10 sets of tris, if I am understanding this correctly. This seems very underweighted to secondary muscles, such as tris and bis, and shoulders seem to be skimped.

    I just feel that this undertrains these groups. Is this plans basic main goal to get the main exercises (benching, squats, deadlifts, etc) in so you enter hypertrophy sooner? and that way your secondary muscles require less, but still adequite training to get a better after result?

    I was also eating a lower carb diet, because I attempted to start to cut in mid april. As you can see, I got no where near cut, and basically wasted a summers worth of lifting (didnt stick completely to it, not much cardio, etc.). I am going to start eating like a horse, but not bad food in attempt to get the nutrients needed but not gain weight the wrong way (eating more proteins w/ more complex carbs, more often).

    Sorry for these novels, as you can see i have really no clue. I just enjoy taking protein and lifting, but the price for the supplements and membership has been killing me if the gains arent being shown. Thank you again for the responses.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by akoz View Post
    F
    I am not sure how much I like it. Reguardless, I am used to doing 1-2 muscle groups for 1.5-2 hours, rather then 5 groups for only 10 sets. It just seems to drag, but I did notice a little more of a pump in my bis with less sets done.

    The only thing I dont really get about this plan is its supposed to be about ~50 sets. That leaves 10 sets for each group. So basically monday, I would get 20 sets back, 10 sets of chest, 10 sets of shoulders, and 10 sets of tris, if I am understanding this correctly. This seems very underweighted to secondary muscles, such as tris and bis, and shoulders seem to be skimped.

    s.
    First of all training one or even two bodyparts for as long as two hours is a waste of time. Doing a ton of sets is NOT required. I finish my workouts in 30-40 minutes. And I've gone from 135 lbs to 210 (currently)

    50 sets is overtraining for most. That is a professional bodybuilder's workout. These guys have fantastic genetics and rely heavily on chemical assistance for the most part to get through these workouts and recuperate. You may see some gains from this initially but you are likely to injure yourself if you keep this up long term. You don't have their genetics or drugs or training expertise...don't train like them.

    And as for your concern about skimping. Usually smaller muscles require less work then bigger muscle groups like chest, legs and back. This is traditionally the way most people train. Your biceps really don't require 20 sets+ to grow. Why?

    Because when you train a big muscle group you are training other muscle groups as well. Think of a heavy flat bench press. You are not only training chest but your triceps and shoulders as well are heavily involved. Let's say you do 20 sets...although IMO that is about 2-3X what is needed)
    Why would each of those muscle groups (triceps and shoulders) need ANOTHER 20 sets on top of that?
    Not to mention that they are smaller muscles to begin with and thus do simply not need as much work.
    If you bench with 200 lbs you aren't going to be curling with 200 lbs.

    And as a final note no training program in the world will ever work if you aren't eating enough. The fuel for the muscles to repair, grow bigger and get stronger...just isn't there.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    First of all training one or even two bodyparts for as long as two hours is a waste of time. Doing a ton of sets is NOT required. I finish my workouts in 30-40 minutes. And I've gone from 135 lbs to 210 (currently)

    50 sets is overtraining for most. That is a professional bodybuilder's workout. These guys have fantastic genetics and rely heavily on chemical assistance for the most part to get through these workouts and recuperate. You may see some gains from this initially but you are likely to injure yourself if you keep this up long term. You don't have their genetics or drugs or training expertise...don't train like them.

    And as for your concern about skimping. Usually smaller muscles require less work then bigger muscle groups like chest, legs and back. This is traditionally the way most people train. Your biceps really don't require 20 sets+ to grow. Why?

    Because when you train a big muscle group you are training other muscle groups as well. Think of a heavy flat bench press. You are not only training chest but your triceps and shoulders as well are heavily involved. Let's say you do 20 sets...although IMO that is about 2-3X what is needed)
    Why would each of those muscle groups (triceps and shoulders) need ANOTHER 20 sets on top of that?
    Not to mention that they are smaller muscles to begin with and thus do simply not need as much work.
    If you bench with 200 lbs you aren't going to be curling with 200 lbs.

    And as a final note no training program in the world will ever work if you aren't eating enough. The fuel for the muscles to repair, grow bigger and get stronger...just isn't there.


    *********
    Akoz, first just wanted to say that it takes balls to come to a new forum and post pictures. Guys have been here for years and never post pics, so I applaud that.

    You've got a pretty solid set of arms, a good chest, some lat width showing. It's obvious that you do have some experience in the weight room.

    Your gains are going to slow down after the honeymoon period of 1-2 years of training, especially if you're not being diligent when it comes to nutrition, which is about 80% of the battle to change one's physique.

    I agree with Song that the program you're doing right now is bullshit and not necessary. I'd suggest HCT-12 or BGB. Those are two solid programs that focus on progression, which is the key to constantly improving.

    Read the stickies in the nutrition section. That's more important than whatever routine you choose.

    http://jcdfitness.com/2009/01/lyle-m...lking-routine/

    http://builtblog.wikidbody.com/2007/...baby-got-back/

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    Quote Originally Posted by chevelle2291 View Post


    *********
    Akoz, first just wanted to say that it takes balls to come to a new forum and post pictures. Guys have been here for years and never post pics, so I applaud that.

    You've got a pretty solid set of arms, a good chest, some lat width showing. It's obvious that you do have some experience in the weight room.

    Your gains are going to slow down after the honeymoon period of 1-2 years of training, especially if you're not being diligent when it comes to nutrition, which is about 80% of the battle to change one's physique.

    I agree with Song that the program you're doing right now is bullshit and not necessary. I'd suggest HCT-12 or BGB. Those are two solid programs that focus on progression, which is the key to constantly improving.

    Read the stickies in the nutrition section. That's more important than whatever routine you choose.

    http://jcdfitness.com/2009/01/lyle-m...lking-routine/

    http://builtblog.wikidbody.com/2007/...baby-got-back/
    Thank you guys for the help! Everywhere you go, haters are gonna hate. (I was heavily into volkswagen forums, the crowd is down the pooper so i was expecting hate over help).

    I figure, what I am doing isnt really cutting it with my demands so far, and if there is something I can do to help, il do what it takes.

    I will try to eat a little better and do less overtraining. From the plan i used last night, my legs are soar (not that thats anything new) but I did feel that the work out was a bit more strenuous rather then just a fun past time. I just got so accustomed to what I normally did, so a change is good.

    Im gonna hit up those stickies on nutriton. The issue with that is, I am afraid I will be eating too much of the wrong stuff. I want to fill out some of my shirts a little more in the chest and arm area, but not get to the point where my arms are huge but they are still very undefined (like when i was bulking).

    Thank you again

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    You really should record your workouts, as you will want to make sure you are improving each week and it will give you the chance to look at where you were at a few months prior so you can make sure you are getting stronger.

    The most important things for you I think is to get on a proper routine so that you are doing are more realistic amount of work per bodypart, and are working all your muscles evenly. And also that you decide whether you want to bulk or cut as that will determine your nutritional needs. If you try do both you will more than likely just stay as you are

  12. #12
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    Hey guys just an update I started training a bit differently. I bumped up my protein intake a bit, ive also attempted to incorporate legs (as well as major exercises like squats/deadlifts as a priority). I am also trying to eat like a horse, but after getting used to eating less carbs the whole summer its a bit tough to pack down a lot of food and end up with upset stomaches hahaha.

    I was ~210/211 back when I first posted, I am about 215/216. I am going to post up pics maybe every month or so as well as weight and main exercise rep schemes. I figure itl be a little training log on here so people can see how I am improving and also just for personal reference and inspiration. Likewise, look for updates closer to the end of the month

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    I dont know whats wrong..

    Hey guys, here for a 1 month update. I have run into a couple issues, and now is the first time in my time of lifting where I am beginning to feel its not worth it anymore.

    Basically, I went from 210~218-220 this month. Reguardless, eating was no issue and dieting wasnt really involved. I tried eating high in proteins, but i did eat more bad food then i have the whole summer because I was basically only eating turkey sandwhiches before.

    I trained like a madman. I was lifting heavy 6-8 reps, trying to get the best form I could. I did incorperate deadlifts semi regularly for back, and did attempt to train my secondary muscles not as hard. Basically, to put out my best form/heaviest weight for 6-8 reps but not too rediculious on the number of sets.

    I ate protein like crazy. I was going through 5lb tubs every week, or about 180grams a day just by shakes.

    I was on for 5 days a week. I took newer pictures and was very unhappy with the results. Reguardless, it was only a month but for the money and extra effort it really put me down. I am basically the same size (though did notice some areas did kidna look not as good as the pics above). I also put on more stomach fat, so what was there of abs is now gone.

    My question to you guys is what do you think is going on? I bumped intensity, protein intake, yet I am not as happy with my results. I am wondering if I just dont have enough rest days, or maybe I should only go 3-4 on but super hard training and take off rest of the week.

  14. #14
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    it takes years
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  15. #15
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    Slow down, it's not a race and it takes a LONG time to get results. You gained 10 lbs in a month, should have been closer to 4 lbs. Get your diet sorted out, eat good foods, don't take so many shakes, train hard three days a week, get a lot stronger on the big exercises, and give it a couple of years. This doesn't happen in a month!!!
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    Wow.... I'm still very new to lifting, but I have learned enough to know that you (the op) have a lot to learn... Start reading more on the forum and really take in what's on here.
    Also appreciate the level of knowledge and experience on here providing this info. This forum is filled with world-class and renowned strength and body-building athletes, coaches and experts - these people know what they are talking about so listen up.
    Last edited by NITF; 08-25-2011 at 07:53 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by NITF View Post
    Wow.... I'm still very new to lifting, but I have learned enough to know that you (the op) have a lot to learn... Start reading more on the forum and really take in what's on here.
    Also appreciate the level of knowledge and experience on here providing this info. This forum is filled with world-class and renowned strength and body-building athletes, coaches and experts - these people know what they are talking about so listen up.
    Of course i know i wont get anything too crazy within a month, but I shouldnt look worse then i did.

    I also havent gotten gains since february in my opinion, and ive been training my ass off. So im just looking for advice, from february to early august i tried eating decently, im not saying I was the best but I didnt eat sweets or junk food, mostly just complex carbs and a lot of protein. and yet I am not getting much results

  18. #18
    Squat Heavy, Squat Often Cards's Avatar
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    how do you track your progress?
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cards View Post
    how do you track your progress?
    X2. Working hard is not descriptive enough and really not what you are looking for in and of itself.

    You need to focus on PROGRESSION, both in the amount of weight used and the reps achieved. For instance, I could go into the gym tomorrow and do 14 sets of leg press and I'd definitely be working HARD, but I wouldn't see any progress if I didn't increase the weight or reps from a previous session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Trudel
    "No matter what the method someone uses to gain super strength gains-it’s imperative they do so. Again if you put someone out on a deserted island with 135LBS of weights he can superset, giant set, high rep, superslow etc etc squats, deadlifts and benches to his hearts delight...the sad story is his gains will quickly come to a halt because his limiting factor is the amount of strength he will gain. He has 135LBS to work with. You take that same guy on a deserted island and give him squats deadlifts, and benches and an unlimited weight supply that he constantly pushes, in 5 years I'll show you a big Gilligan."
    Also, 10lbs is a FUCKTON of weight to gain in a month in your circumstance. It doesn't matter what you eat or how 'clean' it is, if you eat too much of it you'll gain more fat than lean size and end up looking like shit.

    Start counting and tracking your calories. It's the easiest thing in the world to do and allows me to live a normal live full of Red Bull, booze, skittles, and ice cream and not worry about overdoing it. You'll also be able to know EXACTLY how much protein you are taking in a day, how many carbs, etc., and be able to adjust said macros and caloric intake with ease as well as fit in some less than stellar food sources when your social life or cravings kick in.

    Also, you're going to see some fat gain on a 'bulk.' It's inevitable when trying to gain appreciable mass in a relatively short amount of time. I know I had some serious prego bloat goin on during my last bulk. You can slowbulk for years, and you'll look good doing it if you start from a lean base, but it'll probably take 6+ years before anyone recognizes you as a bodybuilder if you go that route. I'd shoot for .5-1lb a week, and then cut when you are unhappy with your fat percentage, but have gained an appreciable amount of size and strength.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cards View Post
    ...the new trend is to eat slight above your normal caloric intake.
    *Spits out milk in terror*
    We're doing WHAT?

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